I don't see 2011 being our Championship year

[Volunteeer]

I hate x. His staff was excellent. They consistently did more with less talent last year. Last year is the first time in thirty years I consistently saw a ut staff out coach their opponents. We would have lost one more game last year at least and been blown away by Alabama and Florida. I am neither young nor a fulmer hater( for almost a decade fulmer was one of the best coaches in the sec based on his recruiting prowess.), but if you could not recognize the superior game plans and in game adjustments last year, then you did not watch the games with an eye for detail, or you just don't know enough to be able to recognize a well coached team. I wish you would stop spraying this idiocy, because I hate pointing out the quality job x's staff did.

Okay, it looks like to me, at worst Kiffin inherited the same talent as Saban.

So, does this tell us more about Saban or Kiffin?

At the end of the day, I think Fulmer goes bowling if he doesn't get fired, and he probably has a better year than Kiffin did last year. IF Dooley is the real deal (and I think he just might be) then it's all a wash. If not, then the Kiffin experiment was a disaster for UT; a whomping big disaster, and only the haters and the younglings would suggest we would still be better off without Fulmer.

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[Fightmaker]

Have you a clue about our roster? We would gladly trade oline and dline with Kentucky. That's Kentucky I said. We never win games "because we are Tennessee". We win them because of the players and on the lines we don't have them. A good rotation of dtackles is six. We don't even have that many on the roster. So yes, on paper where we are now, no we won't.
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I might be missing something but we have 14 D-Lineman on the roster. I realize that some of them are ends, but I'm not seeing the panic here. They are all/were fairly highly rated recruits, and should be able to compete with freakin Kentucky talent. We have 14 O-Lineman on the roster as well. I realize that they arent an All American squad and everything, but really, both sides should be able to hold their own with everyone but Bama and Florida.

 

[Volunteeer]

do you know how many are tackles? Three or four depending how you count them. That's why you didn't see the problem. Our personnel with light fast linebackers and speed rush ends mean we need dtackles that can control and dominate the middle. If they can command double teams then linemen get out on out lighter linebackers, the tackles get pushed back and we can't stop the run. And very simply if we can't stop the run, most games we lose. In three recruiting classes we now have on the roster, we signed ONE dtackle, brown this year and he may not qualify. I am not one to hyperbolize, but we are simply in a situation this year you can't fix. Period

I might be missing something but we have 14 D-Lineman on the roster. I realize that some of them are ends, but I'm not seeing the panic here. They are all/were fairly highly rated recruits, and should be able to compete with freakin Kentucky talent. We have 14 O-Lineman on the roster as well. I realize that they arent an All American squad and everything, but really, both sides should be able to hold their own with everyone but Bama and Florida.

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[jarvol]

It took Saban three years to win the NC. I know he went 6-6 in Year One, but hellfire, he had an undefeated regular season in Year Two.

Saban had high quality players on both the OL and DL. It is akin to comparing large, shiny, red, apples to young, weak, small oranges.

 

[Volunteeer]

Saban had high quality players on both the OL and DL. It is akin to comparing large, shiny, red, apples to young, weak, small oranges.

And he has had not just good recruiting classes, but top three recruiting classes.
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[Fightmaker]

do you know how many are tackles? Three or four depending how you count them. That's why you didn't see the problem. Our personnel with light fast linebackers and speed rush ends mean we need dtackles that can control and dominate the middle. If they can command double teams then linemen get out on out lighter linebackers, the tackles get pushed back and we can't stop the run. And very simply if we can't stop the run, most games we lose. In three recruiting classes we now have on the roster, we signed ONE dtackle, brown this year and he may not qualify. I am not one to hyperbolize, but we are simply in a situation this year you can't fix. Period

Come now my brother. Im sure Coach Dooley has read of Thermopylae.

 

[Volunteeer]

I hope he's read harry potter and learned some magic that instantly adds 50lbs of muscle to a person.

do you know how many are tackles? Three or four depending how you count them. That's why you didn't see the problem. Our personnel with light fast linebackers and speed rush ends mean we need dtackles that can control and dominate the middle. If they can command double teams then linemen get out on out lighter linebackers, the tackles get pushed back and we can't stop the run. And very simply if we can't stop the run, most games we lose. In three recruiting classes we now have on the roster, we signed ONE dtackle, brown this year and he may not qualify. I am not one to hyperbolize, but we are simply in a situation this year you can't fix. Period

Come now my brother. Im sure Coach Dooley has read of Thermopylae.

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[CardsNVols]

Ole miss spanked us lol nothing is a sure thing until the clock strikes zero

You do realize they're losing McCluster and Snead right? Of all those teams listed, i'm more worried about South Carolina than any other.

Since it's just sooooo much fun, i'll say we go 7-5 next year with a bowl win. 9-3 in 2011 with an SEC east title. And 2012-2013 as probably our greatest window to win an SEC and National title. That's assuming we keep these top 10 recruiting classes coming in.

BTW, I hate to sound negative, but when did it become a sure thing we would even win a NC in the next 6 years? I mean don't get me wrong, i like Dooley and i think he's going to be a fine coach for us, and i believe he'll create windows of years where we'll have a serious shot at contending for titles. But none of them are guarenteed, there's simply too much parity, too many good players, and too many good coaches to assume that it's a sure thing we win the NC in a given year.

Just saying, don't climb too high up on the horse, it makes the fall hurt a lot worse. I think we should just primarily be focused on next year, getting to AND WINNING a bowl, evaluating our QB's and finding the best one for the future, and getting all these young players properly fitted into Dooley's system.

 

[DismantleVol]

You do realize they're losing McCluster and Snead right? Of all those teams listed, i'm more worried about South Carolina than any other.

Since it's just sooooo much fun, i'll say we go 7-5 next year with a bowl win. 9-3 in 2011 with an SEC east title. And 2012-2013 as probably our greatest window to win an SEC and National title. That's assuming we keep these top 10 recruiting classes coming in.

BTW, I hate to sound negative, but when did it become a sure thing we would even win a NC in the next 6 years? I mean don't get me wrong, i like Dooley and i think he's going to be a fine coach for us, and i believe he'll create windows of years where we'll have a serious shot at contending for titles. But none of them are guarenteed, there's simply too much parity, too many good players, and too many good coaches to assume that it's a sure thing we win the NC in a given year.

Just saying, don't climb too high up on the horse, it makes the fall hurt a lot worse. I think we should just primarily be focused on next year, getting to AND WINNING a bowl, evaluating our QB's and finding the best one for the future, and getting all these young players properly fitted into Dooley's system.

+1

 

[utgibbs]

Saban had high quality players on both the OL and DL. It is akin to comparing large, shiny, red, apples to young, weak, small oranges.

The data suggests (namely ranking comparisons between Shula and Fulmer over the time in question) Kiffin inherited, at worst, the same level of talent as Saban. Even if Kiffin stayed, he would not be undefeated in 2010 (the schedule is brutal).

As for consistently outcoaching, hmmmm. I refer you to UCLA, Ole Miss, Auburn, Ohio, VT, and USC 2nd half. I refer you to the Bama game too, where Kiffin managed to seize defeat from the jaws of victory (Fulmer would have been excoriated for not getting closer; Fulmer would have been excoriated for any of those games. And I personally think Fulmer beats UCLA and Auburn).

 

[got orange]

UTGIBBS doesn't "see 2011 being our Championship year"

Man you are really putting a lot of experts belly up on this one Gibbs.

Way to go out on a limb.

k:

 

[utgibbs]

I hate x. His staff was excellent. They consistently did more with less talent last year. Last year is the first time in thirty years I consistently saw a ut staff out coach their opponents. We would have lost one more game last year at least and been blown away by Alabama and Florida. I am neither young nor a fulmer hater( for almost a decade fulmer was one of the best coaches in the sec based on his recruiting prowess.), but if you could not recognize the superior game plans and in game adjustments last year, then you did not watch the games with an eye for detail, or you just don't know enough to be able to recognize a well coached team. I wish you would stop spraying this idiocy, because I hate pointing out the quality job x's staff did.


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Sorry, I refer you to UCLA, Ole Miss, VT, Ohio, Auburn. What I saw were the same things Fulmer would have been crucified for by the haters and the younglings.

It's obvious everyone was hungover with the new coach effect last year. There is no way one can say Kiffin was an immediate upgrade to Fulmer-in-Decline. The data, even the intangibles that everyone is calling upon to support their Kiffin case, is simply not there.

I know one year can't make an "era", but for those of us who remember, Phil was an immediate and clear upgrade over Johnny on the field, and even in recruiting. At the time too, Johnny was in a purple patch for recruiting.

And the indisputable fact is, if Dooley can't cut it, Hammy's Kiffin experiment will be a decade disaster for UT. I remind you, we were one play away from an SEC crown in 2007 under Fulmer. I agree his legacy is enigmatic, and that fascinates me, but Kiffin was no upgrade.

 

[utgibbs]

UTGIBBS doesn't "see 2011 being our Championship year"

Man you are really putting a lot of experts belly up on this one Gibbs.

Way to go out on a limb.

k:

As a reminder, the post was written before Kiffin split.

 

[got orange]

As a reminder, the post was written before Kiffin split.

Even still....

Kiffin, a 34 year old boy came into the SEC with an UNPROVEN coach record and you think the fans and "experts" expected a NC in 2011? So you made a topic to set them straight?

Listen, I was behind Kiff, as I am Dooley but no way in hell am I putting that burden on them so fast.

I know Saben and Meyer did it and kudos to them. But should we keep firing and hiring coaches until we get the same Bama and UF results?

How long will that take? :crazy:

 

[rekinhavoc]

I do think after all that has happened that there are some young men who are pretty fired up and have a chip on their shoulders. Maybe that will be the deciding factor.

 

[SOS22]

Saban had high quality players on both the OL and DL. It is akin to comparing large, shiny, red, apples to young, weak, small oranges.

Do you remember CDD's quote "I'm not Nick Saban"
It may happen in 3 years, but get through the first year, then see.

 

[DD4ME]

remember one other thing.

tennessee being good won't make everyone else bad.

steve spurrier was the coach at florida from 1990 through 2001.

florida state finished in the top 5 every year until 2001.

florida becoming good didn't make florida state bad.

i don't think tennessee becoming good will make the other teams in the SEC weaker. tennessee would just be joining everyone else.

I would only disagree when it comes to GA. If UT is recruiting well it will be at UGA-y's expense. The talent pool is only so deep so someone's has to get lowered for ours to rise. I also think UF will be impacted by FSU. That's something we can be happy about though.
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[Orange Alert]

There is no way one can say Kiffin was an immediate upgrade to Fulmer-in-Decline. The data, even the intangibles that everyone is calling upon to support their Kiffin case, is simply not there.

In a different thread I gave you specific data showing significant offensive improvement from 2008 to 2009.

 

[Antwan]

Let's just take one season at a time. The goal would be to get better every year. Next year will be a challenge mainly due to not having a proven...experienced qb. Let's not worry about competing for a national title just yet.

 

[utgibbs]

In a different thread I gave you specific data showing significant offensive improvement from 2008 to 2009.

Alright. What was 2009 compared to 2007?

Our offense was pitiful in 2009 until JC came around (Hardesty excepted). It was the same last year - the JC effect cannot be denied. Again, I remember the Fulmer upgrade over Johnny. I didn't see the same thing with Kiffin over Fulmer. It just wasn't there.

I think some areas improved, sure. Penalties stand out for me. But I think the offense was always going to be better in 2009. Maybe more improved (Clawson Year Two) under Fulmer, in fact.

 

[Remy]

I will reserve my 2011 predictions once I see how our team and staff performs in 2010. Frankly, I will be hugely disappointed if we still do not absolutely wipe the floor up with Florida at Neyland this coming season. UF comes in to Neyland with a lot of untried and unproven kids whose first real taste of playing SEC football will be against us, talented they may be, but you ain't done it yet if you ain't done it Florida kids.

 

[Orange Alert]

Alright. What was 2009 compared to 2007?

Our offense was pitiful in 2009 until JC came around (Hardesty excepted). It was the same last year - the JC effect cannot be denied. Again, I remember the Fulmer upgrade over Johnny. I didn't see the same thing with Kiffin over Fulmer. It just wasn't there.

I think some areas improved, sure. Penalties stand out for me. But I think the offense was always going to be better in 2009. Maybe more improved (Clawson Year Two) under Fulmer, in fact.

What does 2007 have to do with anything? Who was the QB in 07? Who was the OC in 07? Isn't it a little naive to think that Kiffin didn't have any responsibility in turning Crompton around?

So your whole basis for these statements is that you think the offense would have been better with Fulmer when we know that Kiffin improved the offense?

 

[RT1941]

Do you remember CDD's quote "I'm not Nick Saban"
It may happen in 3 years, but get through the first year, then see.

Very few coaches are Nick Saban. While the recruiting rankings look very similar from the Shula yrs and the Fulmer yrs, Saban brought in an excellant S&C Coach and completly revamped the off-season conditioning program in his first yr. Many of the same players that played in Shula's last yr looked completly different physically than they did 12 months before Saban arrived.

Saban also relied heavily on JuCo players to fill in the soft spots on both lines. First was Terrance Cody in the middle and second was James Carpenter left tackle. Both of thosed players worked hard and made huge improvements and are now wearing an NC ring.

It's undeniable that Saban's recruiting won the SEC - NC this year though.

Rankings
'03 49th (Shula finished this year's class)
'04 15th
'05 18th
'06 11th
'07 10th (Saban finished this year's class)
'08 1st (Saban's 1st full yr - a freaking monster class)
'09 1st (Many red-shirts from this class will play in '10)
'10 3rd (Meyer kicked Saban's ass in this class)

Once Dooley gets the players in the program and builds them up, I think he'll be fine at UT.

 

[utgibbs]

What does 2007 have to do with anything? Who was the QB in 07? Who was the OC in 07? Isn't it a little naive to think that Kiffin didn't have any responsibility in turning Crompton around?

So your whole basis for these statements is that you think the offense would have been better with Fulmer when we know that Kiffin improved the offense?

Unfortunately, it's not me, it's Kiffin who left us with that probelm.

The point is: a lot of college offenses get better with a QB starting his second year. Or having a Sr QB (like 2007 and 2009). So your argument doesn't hold.

I've said many times that the only real good to come from the Kiffin "era" was he stuck with Crompton, and JC didn't leave campus as the most reviled Vol in history (and I'm happy for him, and I'm glad he will have an NFL shot). And heck, maybe the turnaround had everything to do with Crompton himself.

However, we all know PHIL would have stuck with Crompton too. And Clawson demonstrated for sure he can coach. So, it's not all guesswork. Since JC could be turned, Phil and co. might have done it.

And might have done it by the UCLA game. It's obvious Chaney, Reaves, Kiffin needed several games to "figure it out." And I get that - first year coach syndrome.

 

[Orange Alert]

However, we all know PHIL would have stuck with Crompton too. And Clawson demonstrated for sure he can coach. So, it's not all guesswork. Since JC could be turned, Phil and co. might have done it.

We don't know that Fulmer would have stuck with Crompton. Just look at 2005 and 2008 for proof there.

I agree that Fulmer's staff might have been able to turn Crompton around but its very hard to believe that if Fulmer hadn't been fired he would have kept Dave Clawson on staff.

My point is that Fulmer and Clawson had an entire year to turn him around and we saw no improvement. Kiffin and his staff did it half a season.