Huge difference in whats actually happening

#1
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ReaderVol

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#1
There is a HUGE difference in questioning a coach and bashing and calling for them to be fired.
So those crying "we can question a coach and still be fans". Absolutely questioning a coach is every fans right. But when you go overboard and make statements about firing the coach and go berserk to the point where it makes national media you should expect reasonable people to question your statements.
 
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#2
#2
If he would just own the loss I would be happy. But if he is going to be so stubborn that he has to be right at our football team's expense, then there needs to be a change sooner than later.
 
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#3
#3
It's one thing to be angry about how the end of the game was mismanaged and make some jokes at Butch's expense. I did it and felt better afterwards. But fire him? Now? 4 games into his 3rd season? Whatever temporary brain disease affected Butch at the end of the FL game must be contagious.
 
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#4
#4
Own the loss and tell everyone what went wrong and what you are going to do to fix it... simple stuff... you are earning millions and are in denial up to this point. Be a man and own up to your mistakes as a coach and dedicate yourself to fix the problem... I have no issue with that at all.
 
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#5
#5
Haven't we leaned that hiring and firing isn't a silver bullet?

The silver lining here is that the talent is back... Easier for CBJ to change his approach to managing 4th quarters than rebuild a roster I would think.
 
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#6
#6
General Jack said:
Haven't we leaned that hiring and firing isn't a silver bullet?

The silver lining here is that the talent is back... Easier for CBJ to change his approach to managing 4th quarters than rebuild a roster I would think.
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Just to clarify, the roster doesn't go with the coach. Not sure if that's what you meant, but appears that way. Whatever coach steps in gets this roster? If that were to happen
 
#7
#7
advancedrescue27 said:
Just to clarify, the roster doesn't go with the coach. Not sure if that's what you meant, but appears that way. Whatever coach steps in gets this roster? If that were to happen
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As we've seen in football and basketball players NEVER transfer after a coach either leaves or is fired. Right?
 
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#9
#9
utvolorange said:
If he would just own the loss I would be happy. But if he is going to be so stubborn that he has to be right at our football team's expense, then there needs to be a change sooner than later.
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I think that is what has a lot of people upset. He has been out coached in two games the team should have won. That was a complete meltdown and game mismanagement in the last 1:26 of this game. If it happens again, he might earn the nickname "Butch Jones".
 
#10
#10
ReaderVol said:
As we've seen in football and basketball players NEVER transfer after a coach either leaves or is fired. Right?
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That's a possibility, but it's a possibility now. If he's canned it doesn't mean the players leave, it's just that simple. They have the same power now, and many already tend to split during the off season anyways.

On the flip side they are just as capable of seeing a new coach as a leader that can win, not want to leave/break up a good team with a shot at being successful, leave their established friends/life, sit a bench for a year elsewhere, etc etc..

Not saying I'm wishing for this all to happen. I'm tired of jones, not going to lie tho. But just because there's a coaching change doesn't mean it's a guarantee that the players leave as well.
 
#11
#11
advancedrescue27 said:
Just to clarify, the roster doesn't go with the coach. Not sure if that's what you meant, but appears that way. Whatever coach steps in gets this roster? If that were to happen
Click to expand...

Yes, next coach would presumably have a nice roster to work with... but "next" coaches don't always work out. We ought to know that, good grief.

Outside of us, here are some recent examples:

- Gene Chizik (Auburn)
- Will Muschamp (Florida)
- Charlie Strong (Texas)
- Charlie Weiss (Notre Dame)
- Lane Kiffin (USC)
- Bo Pelini (Nebraksa)

And what kind of faith do you have in our administration? We'd probably end up with someone better than Dooley but worse than Butch if we went on the market. We don't have a Harbaugh, Meyer or Saban waiting in the wings.

We have to get off this notion that all our problems will be solved with "new coach."
 
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#12
#12
utvolorange said:
If he would just own the loss I would be happy. But if he is going to be so stubborn that he has to be right at our football team's expense, then there needs to be a change sooner than later.
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He owned the loss at the press conference today. You happy now bro?
 
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#13
#13
ReaderVol said:
There is a HUGE difference in questioning a coach and bashing and calling for them to be fired.
So those crying "we can question a coach and still be fans". Absolutely questioning a coach is every fans right. But when you go overboard and make statements about firing the coach and go berserk to the point where it makes national media you should expect reasonable people to question your statements.
Click to expand...

Not much of a line to cross going from one to the other. Fans usually go quickly from critical to fire when all confidence has been lost. I am critical now of his decisions but there are still games he can turn around. But truthfully, do I have confidence he will turn it around and make better coaching decisions, no.
 
#14
#14
I honestly have not seen many posters calling for Butch to be fired. Most understand that it is not the right move financially and for the state of the program.

What I do see is many fans FINALLY starting to see and realize what us "NegaVols" have been trying to tell you all along.
 
#15
#15
The first step is admitting you have a problem. Something some fans and even Jones himself can't do.
 
#16
#16
I was wondering if this thread would make past 15 posts before people skipped the discussion and just started rehashing the same things already on 50 other threads.
 
#17
#17
General Jack said:
Yes, next coach would presumably have a nice roster to work with... but "next" coaches don't always work out. We ought to know that, good grief.

Outside of us, here are some recent examples:

- Gene Chizik (Auburn)
- Will Muschamp (Florida)
- Charlie Strong (Texas)
- Charlie Weiss (Notre Dame)
- Lane Kiffin (USC)
- Bo Pelini (Nebraksa)

And what kind of faith do you have in our administration? We'd probably end up with someone better than Dooley but worse than Butch if we went on the market. We don't have a Harbaugh, Meyer or Saban waiting in the wings.

We have to get off this notion that all our problems will be solved with "new coach."
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Agreed. not to mention that we haven't gotten our 1st choice on replacing Fulmer, Kiffin or Dooley.

there's a reason we "wound up" with Derek Dooley. 7 or 8 people said no, including David Cutcliffe and Will Muschamp.

and the only reason CBJ is here, is b/c charlie Strong decided to stay in the 'ville.

let's not pretend that we can just go get whoever we want....that hasn't been the case, and it wouldn't be should there be a "next time" in our near future.

so while i'll be perfectly happy to criticize what i've seen thus far, that does not mean the answer is to fire everybody.
 
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#18
#18
utvolorange said:
If he would just own the loss I would be happy. But if he is going to be so stubborn that he has to be right at our football team's expense, then there needs to be a change sooner than later.
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He said many times that team needs to own the loss, and that it begins with him.

Many fans seem to be hearing what they want to hear. I am sure that he said it in a tone that you do not approve of. Butch and Co. put together gameplans that had the Vols leading late against Oklahoma and Florida. More than I can say about the last staff. I understand that Butch and Co. must learn to finish games, and hopefully he will learn from these 2 losses. If not, then we can pursue the "Fahrrrr Butch" movement.

Interesting to note: The defense starting sputtering once Maggitt left the game against OU and once Sutton left against UF. Not saying that one player getting hurt cost us the game,(because the meltdown did not occur until the 4th quarter against OU and Maggitt went down in the 2nd quarter) but perhaps the veteran leadership leaving the field late hurt worse than the actual player leaving the field.
 
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#19
#19
cd12 said:
The first step is admitting you have a problem. Something some fans and even Jones himself can't do.
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images
 
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#20
#20
cd12 said:
The first step is admitting you have a problem. Something some fans and even Jones himself can't do.
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They were slow with Dooley too. Many until the bitter end when the lights were turned on and there was no where to hide.
 
#21
#21
jakez4ut said:
Agreed. not to mention that we haven't gotten our 1st choice on replacing Fulmer, Kiffin or Dooley.

there's a reason we "wound up" with Derek Dooley. 7 or 8 people said no, including David Cutcliffe and Will Muschamp.

and the only reason CBJ is here, is b/c charlie Strong decided to stay in the 'ville.

let's not pretend that we can just go get whoever we want....that hasn't been the case, and it wouldn't be should there be a "next time" in our near future.

so while i'll be perfectly happy to criticize what i've seen thus far, that does not mean the answer is to fire everybody.
Click to expand...

Wrong pond, wrong bait.
 
#23
#23
You are in that stage of coaching failure where you can't fire the guy yet, but (a) you know he's not the guy and therefore (b) his days are numbered
 
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