How much longer can Judi Pavon be allowed to coach????

#26

USAFgolferVol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
2,103
Likes
758
#26
Perhaps your complaints and the related documentation you claim to have would prove more fruitful if you shared them with the Director of Athletics and/or the sport administrator for women's golf, rather than a message board where the majority of posters are just learning what the golf coach's name is.

I won't pretend to know anything about this situation, but I can say this: Any head coach at Tennessee that wants to dismiss a player has to have it approved by the sport administrator and the AD, and they're not in the business of letting coaches do that on a whim. They certainly don't allow it to happen "for no reason." The student-athlete also must have an in-person exit interview with the sport administrator and compliance before receiving transfer documents, so I would encourage her to bring this "documentation" to that meeting.
It's not my daughter and I know the process. There hasn't been an exit interview yet. Her father said she hasn't even been contacted about one, which leads me to believe Pavon may be waiting for her to enter the transfer portal before issuing any kind of documentation associated with a dismissal. At this point she isn't transferring. If her parents submit the documentation they have, it's likely Pavon will be terminated. The young lady may just be invited back onto the team. Her scholarship is unique for collegiate golf. It's a guaranteed 4 year grant from the athletics department. Pavon gave her that scholarship likely thinking she would be perennial no. 1, but that hasn't been the case which may be the reason Pavon would like for here to transfer so she can free up the scholarship money. Regardless, her stroke average is top 3
 
#27

volman128

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
951
Likes
1,490
#27
Tell me more. How do you know that she is incompetent
Honestly, I don't. But my post is more of a commentary on how sheepish our fanbase is. UT fans regularly make excuses and carry water for incompetent coaches, is my point, so the notion that there's problems with this one that's being met with excuses and dismissal isn't exactly surprising. A good chunk of the fanbase has carried water for every incompetent coach that's come through the university, including Peterson, Dooley, Jones, Delmonico, Martin, Serrano, Patrick and Warlick. And they'll never admit they were wrong about those coaches when they get fired or leave, either. Then the next crappy coach is hired, and the cycle repeats itself.

Also keep in mind there are people that work within the UTAD that play damage control on these boards. They, too, never admit when they were wrong, even after years of carrying water despite seeing the writing on the wall.
 
#28

Vol8188

revolUTion in the air!
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
27,519
Likes
15,943
#28
Honestly, I don't. But my post is more of a commentary on how sheepish our fanbase is. UT fans regularly make excuses and carry water for incompetent coaches, is my point, so the notion that there's problems with this one that's being met with excuses and dismissal isn't exactly surprising. A good chunk of the fanbase has carried water for every incompetent coach that's come through the university, including Peterson, Dooley, Jones, Delmonico, Martin, Serrano, Patrick and Warlick. And they'll never admit they were wrong about those coaches when they get fired or leave, either. Then the next crappy coach is hired, and the cycle repeats itself.

Also keep in mind there are people that work within the UTAD that play damage control on these boards. They, too, never admit when they were wrong, even after years of carrying water despite seeing the writing on the wall.
To summarize:

You have no clue what’s going on, but everyone else is a cuck for disagreeing with you? Seems reasonable
 
#29

DeerPark12

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
5,752
Likes
5,344
#29
It's not my daughter and I know the process. There hasn't been an exit interview yet. Her father said she hasn't even been contacted about one, which leads me to believe Pavon may be waiting for her to enter the transfer portal before issuing any kind of documentation associated with a dismissal. At this point she isn't transferring. If her parents submit the documentation they have, it's likely Pavon will be terminated. The young lady may just be invited back onto the team. Her scholarship is unique for collegiate golf. It's a guaranteed 4 year grant from the athletics department. Pavon gave her that scholarship likely thinking she would be perennial no. 1, but that hasn't been the case which may be the reason Pavon would like for here to transfer so she can free up the scholarship money. Regardless, her stroke average is top 3
And this is where the story just doesn't add up. Maybe you don't have all the information since it isn't your daughter, but what you've presented here is not a set of facts that can exist. Allow me to explain for everyone else here, since you say you know the process.

1. A student-athlete's spot on the roster for the next athletic year is determined before July 1st each year. If a S-A is not going to be invited back to a team, then that determination has to be made before that date, otherwise the scholarship rolls over.

2. For a S-A to be "cut" from a roster, even if the school is going to honor the scholarship, the sport administrator for that sport has to approve the cut, as does the athletics director. At that point, an exit meeting is scheduled. Some S-As choose to do it over the phone or over video chat, but it is done before any other steps are taken.

3. All a S-A has to do to enter the transfer portal is contact compliance. You're correct that a S-A cannot be forced into the portal by a coach. But, again, if a S-A has been "cut" from a team, then the decision has already been approved by the sport administrator and AD. There's not a path to be "invited back onto the team" after that has happened.

4. The scholarship money is irrelevant by this point in the year. That's why the July 1 date I mentioned earlier is important. Anyone that has been promised aid or is receiving aid for the fall is already receiving it.

5. Guaranteed 4-year scholarships are NOT unique in college golf, they're now standard. Every scholarship S-A on every team currently at Tennessee is on one. The amount can go up year-by-year, but that's what they sign now. It doesn't guarantee a spot on the team for four years, it only guarantees that they'll be on scholarship.

6. I find it very difficult to believe that a kid is being cut from her college team and she and her parents have had zero communication with the administration about it. That doesn't add up. And she showed up for school this fall and nothing has been decided? Is she working out with her teammates? Is she at the range and practice facility with them? Is she eating in the athlete dining hall, attending the mandatory S-A meetings and activities and attending study hall and tutoring at the Thornton Center? Because those are the details that the administration is not going to allow to dangle there, even in the middle of a pandemic. At this point in the school year, you're either on the team or you're not. If you're on the team, then you're doing all the things I listed. If you're not on the team, then you've had some kind of meeting with the administration about it.

I'm not saying you're lying, but I don't believe that you have all the facts. The details are important and the details, as presented here, are not possible.

And, again, if they have an issue with the head coach and have some kind of evidence/documentation to present, how has that not happened yet?
 
#30

USAFgolferVol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
2,103
Likes
758
#30
And this is where the story just doesn't add up. Maybe you don't have all the information since it isn't your daughter, but what you've presented here is not a set of facts that can exist. Allow me to explain for everyone else here, since you say you know the process.

1. A student-athlete's spot on the roster for the next athletic year is determined before July 1st each year. If a S-A is not going to be invited back to a team, then that determination has to be made before that date, otherwise the scholarship rolls over.

2. For a S-A to be "cut" from a roster, even if the school is going to honor the scholarship, the sport administrator for that sport has to approve the cut, as does the athletics director. At that point, an exit meeting is scheduled. Some S-As choose to do it over the phone or over video chat, but it is done before any other steps are taken.

3. All a S-A has to do to enter the transfer portal is contact compliance. You're correct that a S-A cannot be forced into the portal by a coach. But, again, if a S-A has been "cut" from a team, then the decision has already been approved by the sport administrator and AD. There's not a path to be "invited back onto the team" after that has happened.

4. The scholarship money is irrelevant by this point in the year. That's why the July 1 date I mentioned earlier is important. Anyone that has been promised aid or is receiving aid for the fall is already receiving it.

5. Guaranteed 4-year scholarships are NOT unique in college golf, they're now standard. Every scholarship S-A on every team currently at Tennessee is on one. The amount can go up year-by-year, but that's what they sign now. It doesn't guarantee a spot on the team for four years, it only guarantees that they'll be on scholarship.

6. I find it very difficult to believe that a kid is being cut from her college team and she and her parents have had zero communication with the administration about it. That doesn't add up. And she showed up for school this fall and nothing has been decided? Is she working out with her teammates? Is she at the range and practice facility with them? Is she eating in the athlete dining hall, attending the mandatory S-A meetings and activities and attending study hall and tutoring at the Thornton Center? Because those are the details that the administration is not going to allow to dangle there, even in the middle of a pandemic. At this point in the school year, you're either on the team or you're not. If you're on the team, then you're doing all the things I listed. If you're not on the team, then you've had some kind of meeting with the administration about it.

I'm not saying you're lying, but I don't believe that you have all the facts. The details are important and the details, as presented here, are not possible.

And, again, if they have an issue with the head coach and have some kind of evidence/documentation to present, how has that not happened yet?
I've told you the facts in this case. It may atypical from what you know. And no, not all the women are on 4 year guaranteed, full athletic grants. That's where you're wrong
 
#31

DeerPark12

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
5,752
Likes
5,344
#31
I've told you the facts in this case. It may atypical from what you know. And no, not all the women are on 4 year guaranteed, full athletic grants. That's where you're wrong
Well, again, it can't be "atypical from what I know," because the department has policies that are not negotiable. A student-athlete being removed from a team is a black-and-white issue, there's no gray area. That's why I've said repeatedly that you don't have all the information here. The situation you've described CAN NOT EXIST. I don't know Pavon, might have met her once, but I wouldn't swear to it, but I do know the administrator that is over women's golf and I know the compliance person that is responsible for women's golf and neither would allow the situation you've described to happen precisely because it would be a blatant violation of a half dozen of their own policies.

You're right that not every athlete is on a full ride and several of the golfers are on more academic money than athletic money, but you're wrong in that every freshman student-athlete now signs a 4-year scholarship, in line with an SEC standard that began two years ago. If she didn't, then that means the student-athlete you're describing is either a senior and entered before the rule changed or she came in on an academic scholarship and added athletic aid later. If she signed athletic aid out of high school and is a freshman, sophomore or junior, then she signed a 4-year guarantee, as every athlete now does.
 
#32

USAFgolferVol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
2,103
Likes
758
#32
Well, again, it can't be "atypical from what I know," because the department has policies that are not negotiable. A student-athlete being removed from a team is a black-and-white issue, there's no gray area. That's why I've said repeatedly that you don't have all the information here. The situation you've described CAN NOT EXIST. I don't know Pavon, might have met her once, but I wouldn't swear to it, but I do know the administrator that is over women's golf and I know the compliance person that is responsible for women's golf and neither would allow the situation you've described to happen precisely because it would be a blatant violation of a half dozen of their own policies.

You're right that not every athlete is on a full ride and several of the golfers are on more academic money than athletic money, but you're wrong in that every freshman student-athlete now signs a 4-year scholarship, in line with an SEC standard that began two years ago. If she didn't, then that means the student-athlete you're describing is either a senior and entered before the rule changed or she came in on an academic scholarship and added athletic aid later. If she signed athletic aid out of high school and is a freshman, sophomore or junior, then she signed a 4-year guarantee, as every athlete now does.
I think her parents have told me everything. They don't understand why there hasn't been some sort of interview. I know they were contemplating going to Pavon's boss with their info. This young lady was a on a full athletic grant. While she's a really good student, none of her scholarship is academic. She's staying up there because she signed a 1 year lease on an apartment back in June. Like I posted before, if her parents go forth with the info they have, Pavon will be lucky to keep her job. You can't say what she has said to a student-athlete. I've been around the golf community for quite sometime. Pavon has developed a reputation in the last few years for making inappropriate comments to her players. No way a coach can keep her job when she says to a player, "you must have slept with your coach if you got a B-"
 
#34

brassie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
581
Likes
662
#34
good Lord. how bout you toughen up, Buttercup? If that's all she said or did there is no reason at all to fire her or anybody. Kids are going to face insults in their life. get over it.... :(
Only one way to look at a comment like that - what was the intent.
Was it a joke?
Was it an insult?
Was it a fact?

In any case - people need to grow a friggen' skin. This "woe is me I've been offended crap" is unbelievable. I wonder if she was offended when it happened or if she only got offended after she was dropped?
 
#35

37620VOL

Barely-Known Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
2,996
Likes
3,194
#35
Only one way to look at a comment like that - what was the intent.
Was it a joke?
Was it an insult?
Was it a fact?
Is this easy question Tuesday?
It doesn't really matter if it was a joke. Insulting and defamatory jokes are inappropriate.
Yes, it's clearly an insult - the student is either being called stupid, lazy, or a ho.
No, not a fact because it was speculative in nature.

If that was in fact said it needs to be reported to UTAD. Only then can the university investigate. No one should talk like that, certainly not a professional and authority figure.
You can't judge intent. You can only judge what was said and whether it is right or wrong.
 
#36

larjoranj

I CAN'T RE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
1,149
Likes
4,060
#36
No way a coach can keep her job when she says to a player, "you must have slept with your coach if you got a B-"
She said "you must have slept with your coach if you got a B-"? That doesn't make sense. She IS her coach, right? So that would be like saying "you must have slept with me if you got a B-". I don't understand.
 
#38

golfballs

Mostly Peaceful Poster
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
65,607
Likes
37,809
#38
UT doesn’t really care about golf. Jim Kelson was an awful coach, and he coasted by for a long time. I think it’s embarrassing that ETSU has a better golf program than UT.
 
#39

Putbacks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
1,395
Likes
1,938
#39
The operative words here are “slept with”....Technically speaking.....Could she have been implying that [the student athlete] fell asleep during the professor’s lectures? 🤔🤨
 
Last edited:

VN Store




Sponsors
 

Top