How many years will it take

[BowlBrother85]

How come it took us 5 years to fire Butch then? Are we just that stupid or what?

Were we supposed to fire him after a 9-4 season? 2017 was the first year it was reasonably justified.

 

[OldRollTide]

Such hate, and I don't think TN is a loser ....all I'm saying TN will be back this year with CJP..

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Such hate, and I don't think TN is a loser ....all I'm saying TN will be back this year with CJP..

I don't get it. you are playing for another NC, yet you hang out here. why? it makes no sense.

I guess you have forgotten how to lose. must be nice.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

New to Volnation and this is my first post. My prediction with a quality(not great) Power 5 conference QB - 8 or 9 wins in 2018 with a Bowl game appearance. Top 10 ranking in 2019 and a BCS playoff appearances in years 3 & 4. Starting in 2019 JP will bring in top 5 recruiting classes every year and have a elite defense similar to Alabama has this year. No doubt in my mind this will happen.

 

[lawgator1]

From an outsider's perspective, but from someone who's team is in many respects in the same boat as yours, I think a lot of people posting on here are seriously underestimating the talent gap between Ala/Ga, and say UT/Fla. Its not insurmountable, but its going to take several years if not more of recruiting success to get anywhere close to them.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

From an outsider's perspective, but from someone who's team is in many respects in the same boat as yours, I think a lot of people posting on here are seriously underestimating the talent gap between Ala/Ga, and say UT/Fla. Its not insurmountable, but its going to take several years if not more of recruiting success to get anywhere close to them.

The people underestimating it for both UT and FU are serious rose colored glasses wearing homers. We are not in the same galaxy as Bama.

 

[jakez4ut]

Were we supposed to fire him after a 9-4 season? 2017 was the first year it was reasonably justified.

no, he should have been fired immediately after losing to Vandy in 2016. but given the situation administratively, wasn't really prudent to do so. he was the benefactor of some good timing in that both the Chancellor and AD were lame ducks.

so we got the gift that 2017 was as a result.

 

[VolArmy74]

No one knows. No one knows if he will be Dooley/Williams, complete failure, Muschamp/Mcelwain, mediocre, Dantonio, very good or Fisher/Smart potential NC level.

Smart, Fisher and Dantonio were all way more experienced than Pruitt when they got their big job. But so was Dooley, Muschamp and Mcelwain. Basically only Williams was more inexperienced than Pruitt. He was a catastrophic failure.

So to me, it's not a matter of how long, it's much more likely a matter of if he's capable at all.

 

[jakez4ut]

The people underestimating it for both UT and FU are serious rose colored glasses wearing homers. We are not in the same galaxy as Bama.

and we haven't been. i'm not sure i've seen a lot of people saying we are...but of course, i don't pay attention to a lot of posts that are just dumb.

even for most of the very optimistic out there, there's a recognition and acknowledgement that best case next year is 9-3 with losses to Bama, Auburn and GA, because they're just plain better talent wise.

i'm not THAT optimistic, but i do think it's realistic to compete with UF, USCe favorably (especially considering UF is basically in the same boat as us transition wise). and we should still generally be able to beat KY, Vandy and MO.

that's where i think we are.

i think it will take this class finishing really strong, and a great cycle next year to get us back to the point of competing at the top of the conf by year 3.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

and we haven't been. i'm not sure i've seen a lot of people saying we are...but of course, i don't pay attention to a lot of posts that are just dumb.

even for most of the very optimistic out there, there's a recognition and acknowledgement that best case next year is 9-3 with losses to Bama, Auburn and GA, because they're just plain better talent wise.

i'm not THAT optimistic, but i do think it's realistic to compete with UF, USCe favorably (especially considering UF is basically in the same boat as us transition wise). and we should still generally be able to beat KY, Vandy and MO.

that's where i think we are.

i think it will take this class finishing really strong, and a great cycle next year to get us back to the point of competing at the top of the conf by year 3.

I wish Phil would drop Bama from our annual schedule.

 

[JMSqb11]

Two years. Enough of a foundation that he took over, along with this recruiting class, to have a solid team by year 2. Any competent coach should be able to walk to 7-8 wins at Tennessee with a solid defense. I think Pruitt will have a solid defense going into 2019.

The only sure losses we have on the schedule are Georgia and Bama. Not convinced that Auburn will take another step towards playoff contention. If anything, I think its likely they take a step back. Auburn, Florida, and USC are toss ups for us. The rest should be sure fire wins.

I am very excited about stealing Helton from USC's offense. 2018 could be a 7-8 win year next year, but 2019 is where it is at. I'd take Pruitt's top 10 classes over Butch's top 5. Pruitt is getting us in the door with recruits we would have never been linked to.

 

[sjt18]

which is why i said by year 3 if he recruits like he looks like he will we should be capable of competing at that level.

Sorry Jake. I didn't see where you said that.

i think by the end of year 2 we'll have a good idea of what this staff will be all about, whether there's a championship of any kind involved or not.

Agree. And if UT wants to take the shortest path to success then someone needs to become wise enough and strong enough to make that call after year 3 before the program begins to go down hill again.

I hate UF. Always have. But I respect that they saw that Zook wasn't a championship caliber coach and canned him after 3 years even though he was very "Jones" like in his success there. Same with McElwain. I know there was other stuff that went into the justification but they were unhappy with him even before that. The goal is championships and not just the East division... and they saw he wasn't the guy to get it done.

That compares poorly to both UT's power players and fanbase that was MUCH too willing to give Jones "time".

you and i both know you'll be able to tell by looking at them play...and when year 2 is over...we'll know. having said all of that, he may very well be light years ahead of what we've been used to, and there's still an improving USCe to deal with, a resurgent GA to deal with, FL to deal with, and Bama.

That's when someone has to have real courage. Enough courage to say that the standard isn't "better than Jones and Dooley" but better than whoever UT is playing NOW.

he'll need to recruit well, i think the SEC is going to get back to being a 4-6 team league again annually, that can compete nationally. and i think this staff is the type of staff that can put us, and keep us, in that group.

I hope so. I do feel better about having someone who talks and acts like a coach rather than a lawyer or a used car salesman.

 

[JMSqb11]

Were we supposed to fire him after a 9-4 season? 2017 was the first year it was reasonably justified.

2016 would have been an unpopular firing by the media's standard, but it was totally justified. Losing to Vandy and USC was inexcusable. Especially after throwing away the division in 2015.

 

[jakez4ut]

I wish Phil would drop Bama from our annual schedule.

meh. i get why people think this way. but really, the bigger problem for us right now is what GA is turning in to.

we could have won the East in both 15 and 16 even with the losses to Bama.

 

[sjt18]

2 years or he’s a bust. Recent examples - Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Kirby Smart

Fuente won his division in year 1. Helton already won the Pac-12. Riley won the Big 12 and almost made the NC game. James Franklin made Vandy credible within 3 years and won the Big 10 in his third year after taking over a weak program.

Guys who can coach simply don't take that long to prove it once they're on the job.

 

[sjt18]

Were we supposed to fire him after a 9-4 season? 2017 was the first year it was reasonably justified.

Yes. UF would have. Bama would have. And THOSE are the teams UT has to beat to get to the top.

You look at how you won, how you lost, who you lost to, how the team was managed, trends within the program, and the impact of the coaching. UT should have lost to App St. VT in Fuente's first game gave UT like 5 turnovers... otherwise UT didn't look good on either side of the ball. Jones had a constant problem with extraordinary injuries that he had no clue how to solve. His O was soft and only effective with Dobbs using his unique ability to make something out of nothing with his legs. He didn't know how to get the best out of two of the best RB's UT has had on one roster in a very, very long time. He couldn't get players on the field effectively early... and the players he developed seemed to get worse, not better.

There were a literal TON of reasons to see that he was NOT a championship caliber coach. Some of us saw it. Too many didn't.

 

[jakez4ut]

Sorry Jake. I didn't see where you said that.

Agree. And if UT wants to take the shortest path to success then someone needs to become wise enough and strong enough to make that call after year 3 before the program begins to go down hill again.

I hate UF. Always have. But I respect that they saw that Zook wasn't a championship caliber coach and canned him after 3 years even though he was very "Jones" like in his success there. Same with McElwain. I know there was other stuff that went into the justification but they were unhappy with him even before that. The goal is championships and not just the East division... and they saw he wasn't the guy to get it done.

That compares poorly to both UT's power players and fanbase that was MUCH too willing to give Jones "time".

That's when someone has to have real courage. Enough courage to say that the standard isn't "better than Jones and Dooley" but better than whoever UT is playing NOW.


I hope so. I do feel better about having someone who talks and acts like a coach rather than a lawyer or a used car salesman.

well, i'm hoping that courage won't be necessary.

this staff will have opportunities, just like Butch Jones did, early in their tenure to make a statement and make something more out of a season that was thought could be.

just like Franklin, Smart, Helton, etc...all did at their respective programs, CJP will find himself in a game, or games, in year 1 or 2 that could turn a season in to something a lot more than it was supposed to be.

we've discussed it before, but how different would CBJ be viewed, and how different would his career here been, had we won the OU and FL games in 15? or the GA game in 13? or the FL game in 14? or just Vandy in 13? or Bama in 15? 6-8 games over the course of 3 years that had he won ANY # of them could have changed the direction of the program.

forget 2016. it was there. again, opportunity to beat aTm on the road, and beat USCE/Vandy and you're having one of those seasons.


CJP will have those opportunities present themselves too. we'll see if they'll be able to capitalize on them.

 

[JMSqb11]

well, i'm hoping that courage won't be necessary.

this staff will have opportunities, just like Butch Jones did, early in their tenure to make a statement and make something more out of a season that was thought could be.

just like Franklin, Smart, Helton, etc...all did at their respective programs, CJP will find himself in a game, or games, in year 1 or 2 that could turn a season in to something a lot more than it was supposed to be.

we've discussed it before, but how different would CBJ be viewed, and how different would his career here been, had we won the OU and FL games in 15? or the GA game in 13? or the FL game in 14? or just Vandy in 13? or Bama in 15? 6-8 games over the course of 3 years that had he won ANY # of them could have changed the direction of the program.

forget 2016. it was there. again, opportunity to beat aTm on the road, and beat USCE/Vandy and you're having one of those seasons.


CJP will have those opportunities present themselves too. we'll see if they'll be able to capitalize on them.

Butch Jones threw away 3 games that were wins in 2015 and 2 games that were wins in 2016 and maybe a third one in Texas A&M with that putrid OT playcalling.


Had Butch won half of those, he'd still be here. 2015 was his best team and he crapped the bed.

 

[jakez4ut]

Butch Jones threw away 3 games that were wins in 2015 and 2 games that were wins in 2016 and maybe a third one in Texas A&M with that putrid OT playcalling.


Had Butch won half of those, he'd still be here. 2015 was his best team and he crapped the bed.

yeah, that was my point.... :thumbsup:

 

[OldRollTide]

I don't get it. you are playing for another NC, yet you hang out here. why? it makes no sense.

I guess you have forgotten how to lose. must be nice.

Well I live here and I love college football/sports. A lot of my friends and neighbors are TN fans... So I try to keep up.

 

[OnlyGodForgives]

well, i'm hoping that courage won't be necessary.

this staff will have opportunities, just like Butch Jones did, early in their tenure to make a statement and make something more out of a season that was thought could be.

just like Franklin, Smart, Helton, etc...all did at their respective programs, CJP will find himself in a game, or games, in year 1 or 2 that could turn a season in to something a lot more than it was supposed to be.

we've discussed it before, but how different would CBJ be viewed, and how different would his career here been, had we won the OU and FL games in 15? or the GA game in 13? or the FL game in 14? or just Vandy in 13? or Bama in 15? 6-8 games over the course of 3 years that had he won ANY # of them could have changed the direction of the program.

forget 2016. it was there. again, opportunity to beat aTm on the road, and beat USCE/Vandy and you're having one of those seasons.


CJP will have those opportunities present themselves too. we'll see if they'll be able to capitalize on them.

Yes. 6-8 games over the course of three years is around 25% of the games played. Too many bed-wettings regardless of 9-4.

 

[jakez4ut]

Fuente won his division in year 1. Helton already won the Pac-12. Riley won the Big 12 and almost made the NC game. James Franklin made Vandy credible within 3 years and won the Big 10 in his third year after taking over a weak program.

Guys who can coach simply don't take that long to prove it once they're on the job.

agreed. and he'll have opportunities to make it happen in the first 3 years.

 

[jakez4ut]

Yes. 6-8 games over the course of three years is around 25% of the games played. Too many bed-wettings regardless of 9-4.

yep. minus the 16 fl/ga games and 13 USCe, 15 GA game, he basically lost every other game he had an opportunity to turn a season into something more than just a bowl season.

the opportunity cost with Jones was high.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

I don't get it. you are playing for another NC, yet you hang out here. why? it makes no sense.

I guess you have forgotten how to lose. must be nice.

You're embarrassing yourself, and your fellow vol fans. This may be volnation but there's no reason we cannot be civil to rival fans. They're here because while our football team may be garbage at the moment, this forum is more active and has a far superior UI than probably 95% of other college football forums that exist. As such it's a great place to discuss college football with other college football enthusiasts.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Well I live here and I love college football/sports. A lot of my friends and neighbors are TN fans... So I try to keep up.

again... why? if we were competitive I could understand, but we are not even on YOUR TEAM'S radar as a threat. does it make you feel superior? congrats. you are. in every way.