How long is Butch's leash?

#76
#76
How bout this, give Butch his 5 or 7 or 9 or however many years you think he deserves to prove himself, but if his win total doesn't improve this year then he cuts his annual contract by $500,000 per year until the wins start to come in. If we're paying someone over $3 million a year then they better be delivering on the field reaults, cause there are a lot of good coaches out there that would give UT a shot at that price
 
#77
#77
wmcovol said:
If after 5 yrs, he hasn't done anything but go 6-6 or 7-5, hell that is better than the previous 5 yrs. UT administration DONT want to hire another football coach PERIOD. He will be given every opportunity to get this right. I cant understand how Tennessee let their program fall so far down or how so many of us fans refuse to believe it happened. What have you been watching since 2008?
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You don't think there will be pressure after 5 years? I've been watching for over 20 years. Look what happened to Fulmer.
 
#78
#78
08Vol said:
How bout this, give Butch his 5 or 7 or 9 or however many years you think he deserves to prove himself, but if his win total doesn't improve this year then he cuts his annual contract by $500,000 per year until the wins start to come in. If we're paying someone over $3 million a year then they better be delivering on the field reaults, cause there are a lot of good coaches out there that would give UT a shot at that price
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like in 2010?
 
#79
#79
08Vol said:
How bout this, give Butch his 5 or 7 or 9 or however many years you think he deserves to prove himself, but if his win total doesn't improve this year then he cuts his annual contract by $500,000 per year until the wins start to come in. If we're paying someone over $3 million a year then they better be delivering on the field reaults, cause there are a lot of good coaches out there that would give UT a shot at that price
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Sounds like the real world you're living in there. :blink:
 
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#80
#80
Regarding the leash, it depends who you ask. CBJ has a lot of support among the general fan base. Mainly because he is outgoing, a cheer leader, and doing very well in recruiting.

However, with many of the big money donors, this doesn't go as far. I was speaking with a signficant booster yesterday (his name is on a UT building). His opinion was that Butch deserved a 2 year pass based on the condition of the program when he took over. However, for 3.6 million they expect to have a competent recruiter and CEO for the program. These boosters have poured Millions into the program so that the HC has nothing to apologize for when it comes to facilities, etc. So, recruiting ought to be top 10 considering the platform the HC has been provided to work from. Based on this conversation, 7-5 or less is going to bring some serious criticism from influential boosters.
 
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#81
#81
08Vol said:
How bout this, give Butch his 5 or 7 or 9 or however many years you think he deserves to prove himself, but if his win total doesn't improve this year then he cuts his annual contract by $500,000 per year until the wins start to come in. If we're paying someone over $3 million a year then they better be delivering on the field reaults, cause there are a lot of good coaches out there that would give UT a shot at that price
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:lolabove:
 
#82
#82
Roustabout said:
Regarding the leash, it depends who you ask. CBJ has a lot of support among the general fan base. Mainly because he is outgoing, a cheer leader, and doing very well in recruiting.

However, with many of the big money donors, this doesn't go as far. I was speaking with a signficant booster yesterday (his name is on a UT building). His opinion was that Butch deserved a 2 year pass based on the condition of the program when he took over. However, for 3.6 million they expect to have a competent recruiter and CEO for the program. These boosters have poured Millions into the program so that the HC has nothing to apologize for when it comes to facilities, etc. So, recruiting ought to be top 10 considering the platform the HC has been provided to work from. Based on this conversation, 7-5 or less is going to bring some serious criticism from influential boosters.
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He was probably drunk...or you were. :crazy:
 
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#83
#83
peyton4heisman said:
With our first ranked opponent coming to town in two days, Tennessee faces the first real risk of losing a game this season.

Of course, we all want to win this one. Not only do we want this win for ourselves, we want it for these players and for these coaches. We want to see everybody's hard work pay off.

But there is a real chance (God please forbid it) that we lose Saturday. And as a 4-year veteran of this site, I can promise all of you that there will inevitably be some drunken "Fire Butch" or "I'm losing faith in Butch" or "We need Gruden pt. 7" threads that pop up Saturday night and Sunday morning.

That got me thinking. Dooley only lasted 3 years. He nearly only lasted 2. If we were to go 6-6 or 7-5 this season, I'm sure many of us would consider the season a disappointment.

I fear that if that were to happen, Butch's seat would start to warm up. I want nothing more to see Butch succeed and stay here for a few decades. He seems like the perfect fit where Dooley always felt like a temporary patch frpm Day 1 (or Year Zero).

If it were up to me, I would give Butch a minimum 4 more guaranteed seasons, regardless of record. If after 7 years he hasn't gotten it done, it's fair to say he likely never would at that point.

But I know there will be those that will be ready to set his chair ablaze (right next to their burning mattresses) if we underachieved this year.

What do you guys think? Does he have to succeed this year to be safe, or are you like me and feel like he should feel safe for the next few years at least, regardless of record?

Either way, I hope we don't have to find out. Let's take it to the Sooners and silence all the skeptics! Go Vols and let's kick some Sooner ass Saturday night! !!
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Seems like it is getting shorter and shorter with people posting things like this before he even loses a game this year. If it is brought up after he loses so be it but why even want to bring this up before hand unless you just want to say I wanted to get ahead of everyone else. Skeptics are the ones who ask how short or long of a leash does he have.
 
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#84
#84
Everyone be it a CEO, Chairman, or anyone that doesn't own their own business has a leash. But given what Butch has done including repairing many recruiting bridges I see it being very, very loose. His actions up to this point gives him many political chits and I really find this OP ridiculous and inappropriate. It's one thing to gripe about who starts and play calling, defense, special teams, etc but talking about Butch's leash is too much.
 
#86
#86
DiderotsGhost said:
There are too many great coaches in college football that have taken 4 - 5 years to produce results. A lot of fans don't realize how difficult it is to rebuild a program or build up a program. I still think Jim Harbaugh at Stanford is the closest comparable. Stanford had a good history in football. While it doesn't have the tradition of a school like Tennessee, it still had a lot of great selling points, including playing in the Pac-10 and being the most prestigious academic school in I-A. It's also a school that opens up a lot of career doors.

Harbaugh's first two seasons in Stanford were losing ones. His third season was good, but only 8-5 good. It wasn't till his fourth season that he had the big breakthrough and went 12-1. The thing is, I remember watching Stanford in Harbaugh's early years, and his teams didn't win a lot of games, but that team he fielded in his second season was the hardest fighting 5-7 team I'd ever seen. They looked outmatched almost every game, but they fought to the bitter end. If it takes Jim Harbaugh four years to rebuild a program that was in the dumps, I think it's fair to say that most coaches wouldn't be doing it in 2 or 3 years.
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So what you seem to be saying is that he took a team in a deeper hole, had two losing seasons, then won 8 in his 3rd year? The vast majority of the board is calling for 8+... not a championship... this year.

My problem with those who say 7 or even less would be fine this year or that he should get 4 more years regardless. If he hits 8 then I don't think that screams "greatness" but is acceptable progress.

As for the rest, winning proves you can win. Right now, Jones is 13-13 at UT. At the same point, Dooley was 12-14. Their trajectories appear to be completely different... but that will only be proven by Jones continuing to improve and not backsliding.
 
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#87
#87
He'll get 5 years min.... If we're consistently ranked in the top 20, I think he can stay longer, but if no SECCG by year 7, he's gone.
 
#88
#88
NTBVOL said:
You see McElwain's offense on display last weekend? You can say it was against a cupcake, but we scored fewer points than they did when we played our cupcake's defense.
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NMSU's best scoring D ranking since 2007... is 101st. They were 121st last year allowing 39.1 ppg

So unless they somehow broke the code and were able to sneak a bunch of new players in.... they're horrible. I would like to say that ECU will give us a better idea... but they won't. They only beat an FCS team 28-20 last week.

UK will be a slight step up from there. Then UT gets their shot.
 
#90
#90
wmcovol said:
If after 5 yrs, he hasn't done anything but go 6-6 or 7-5, hell that is better than the previous 5 yrs. UT administration DONT want to hire another football coach PERIOD. He will be given every opportunity to get this right. I cant understand how Tennessee let their program fall so far down or how so many of us fans refuse to believe it happened. What have you been watching since 2008?
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This is the most ridiculous post.

Because UT's administration has made 2 bad hires before Butch doesn't give Butch a pass to be a mediocre coach. Period. He must show improvement year after year.. again, anything less than 8 wins this year will be a huge disappointment to the fanbase.
 
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#92
#92
All coach has to do is improve week to week the WINS will come, we are still a young football team a lot on here dont wont to hear that but we are, i get sick of hearing that myself but the truth is that next year is when we can finally say we got a veteran team.
 
#94
#94
peyton4heisman said:
With our first ranked opponent coming to town in two days, Tennessee faces the first real risk of losing a game this season.

Of course, we all want to win this one. Not only do we want this win for ourselves, we want it for these players and for these coaches. We want to see everybody's hard work pay off.

But there is a real chance (God please forbid it) that we lose Saturday. And as a 4-year veteran of this site, I can promise all of you that there will inevitably be some drunken "Fire Butch" or "I'm losing faith in Butch" or "We need Gruden pt. 7" threads that pop up Saturday night and Sunday morning.

That got me thinking. Dooley only lasted 3 years. He nearly only lasted 2. If we were to go 6-6 or 7-5 this season, I'm sure many of us would consider the season a disappointment.

I fear that if that were to happen, Butch's seat would start to warm up. I want nothing more to see Butch succeed and stay here for a few decades. He seems like the perfect fit where Dooley always felt like a temporary patch frpm Day 1 (or Year Zero).

If it were up to me, I would give Butch a minimum 4 more guaranteed seasons, regardless of record. If after 7 years he hasn't gotten it done, it's fair to say he likely never would at that point.

But I know there will be those that will be ready to set his chair ablaze (right next to their burning mattresses) if we underachieved this year.

What do you guys think? Does he have to succeed this year to be safe, or are you like me and feel like he should feel safe for the next few years at least, regardless of record?

Either way, I hope we don't have to find out. Let's take it to the Sooners and silence all the skeptics! Go Vols and let's kick some Sooner ass Saturday night! !!
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Only 0.01% of the posters on this site have any influence or inside knowledge of leashes on coaches. Hell we would be on coach 50 by now if the fans ran the asylum...thanks for taking my call Pauwww
 
#95
#95
It's pretty simple really. Every year you look at the football team and ask the question, "is this team better than last year's team?"

For year 1 to year 2, the answer was certainly "yes." From last year this one, the answer is very likely to be "yes."

Whenever, you go a year or two with "no," CBJ has hit is ceiling. If that ceiling isn't good enough, you part ways.
 
#96
#96
These "at least one more year" quotes are incredible...some 'fans' just truly don't understand what Butch Jones inherited and the unbelievable progress that he has made. Pre-season Top 25 team in his 3rd year, a program that he built absolutely from the ground.

Talk about setting your program back? That's what would happen if Butch Jones was fired after year four - regardless of this season's record. The sheer thought of that is tragic.

4-6 more years, and that's bare minimum. Results will call for an even longer stint on The Hill for CBJ.
 
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#97
#97
gr8day2BaVOL said:
These "at least one more year" quotes are incredible...some 'fans' just truly don't understand what Butch Jones inherited and the unbelievable progress that he has made. Pre-season Top 25 team in his 3rd year, a program that he built absolutely from the ground.

Talk about setting your program back? That's what would happen if Butch Jones was fired after year four - regardless of this season's record. The sheer thought of that is tragic.

4-6 more years, and that's bare minimum. Results will call for an even longer stint on The Hill for CBJ.
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gr8t2b, I think I'm just about as big a Butch fan as they come without being related to the fella. But no one gets 4-6 more years without showing results. At the end of the day, it's all about returning this program to prominence. He's done a huge amount of back end work to get us in position where championships are becoming a feasible team goal again, now he's gotta take the next step and ramp up the winning.

Without that, no matter how much love we give him for all the wonderful things he has done, he wouldn't last another 3 years.

Time to turn it into tangibles. And that means W's.
 
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#98
#98
NTBVOL said:
I think 7 or 8 wins is expected, but it might not happen. You'd have to beat Mizzou and Florida on the road and either UGA, OU or Arkansas at home. I'm not sure if this young team is mentally and physically ready to do that.
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This!!! Listen to the man. He's being realistic here. We DON'T have an easy schedule this year. Florida Offense is looking better than they did under Muschamp.
 
#99
#99
Jones leash is highly stretchable and a loss to Oklahoma will only matter to Vol fans psyche......so hold on
 
#100
#100
TN_Transplant said:
This!!! Listen to the man. He's being realistic here. We DON'T have an easy schedule this year. Florida Offense is looking better than they did under Muschamp.
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I'm sure I come off as having battered vol syndrome, but as long as I have been a fan, UT hasn't won these types of games. I'm in the "show me" stage. If they can beat OU, or Florida or Georgia, then I might be more optimistic later in the season.

However, I think within the next 2-3 years we should start winning these types of games consistently. If we start winning them now, awesome. If it doesn't happen for 2 years, so be it. If we are still winning 6-7 games in '17 and '18 then you start figuring out the appropriate steps.

It's become so natural for our fans to want to fire someone when we don't get immediate results. If we would have handled the Fulmer situation better, I believe UT would have won the east a couple of times since then. I always felt they should have told Fulmer to find his next coach and groom him for a couple of years, then retire.

Instead, we have experienced one of the worst stretches of football in our program's history.

Sorry for ranting. Just want a little more patience from y'all.
 
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