How good will NC State be?

#201
#201
atxvol2010 said:
I think State's offense will really struggle, replacing 3/4 of their top WR's and their nasty kickoff/punt returner. Their D is going to have to keep them in this game, especially the secondary.

I don't think this will be a blowout, but I think Tennessee's talent, depth and urge to win this game will put them over the top. Tennessee by 7-10 in a close one.

NC State fans have a crap football history. For them not to respect a top 10 historical program like Tennessee is laughable. They will understand when they see us in Atlanta and realize it's a stepup in intensity and a better program from playing South Carolina, who is the only SEC team they have played recently. It's like us not respecting their top 25 basketball program, which use to be top 10-15.
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Good post
 
#202
#202
orangeblood79 said:
I'm as on the fence about DD as I have ever been but I refuse to definitively declare him a complete bust of a HC for a multitude of reasons, most of which stj18 stated. However, I will say that the evidence against him is all but damning.

1. YES, he had a losing record at La Tech--big deal, he also won Louisiana Coach of the year his 2nd year after taking them to their first bowl game win since 1977.

2. YES, he has a losing record at UT...a somewhat big deal, but he took over what has been described as a "dumpster fire" of a roster. I give him more latitude for this one reason more than any other.

3. YES, he lost to Kentucky. I'm not defending that. He deserves the criticism. You CANNOT lose to UK.

All in all, there is more evidence to condemn than condone but it's not enough to make up my mind completely.

He has this year, more specifically...the Florida game--even more specifically the NCSU game, though I expect to win that one. If we don't beat NCSU, its not the end of the road but it's definitely not starting out on the right foot and makes things exponentially harder. Mark Richt was thought to be all but fired after starting 0-2 last year then he went on a tear. It's not impossible that we do that this year, though highly unlikely.

I'm looking for 8 regular season wins. I can't see past 8, not now anyway. It's possible but until I'm convinced that DD can coach his way into a Win, that's my ceiling.
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Good post.
 
#203
#203
Reading this thread has me pumped for August 31st! I'm ready for the vols break out season. I wii be heading to ATL for the game. Go Vols!
 
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#205
#205
Brooktrout said:
Yo, O'brien has been a HC for 10 years at BC, with 8winning seasons and 8 straight bowls, where his teams went 7-1 in Bowls and 75-45 overall. He had previously been an asst. under George Walsh at UVA for 15 years, earning his stripes. Prior to that he served 9 years in the Marines after graduating from Annapolis.

At NCSU, O'Brien is 33-30 in 5 years with 3 bowl appearances and a 2-1 bowl record. His overall career coaching record is 108-75.

Dooley was the HC at NE LaTech Inst for 3 years, where he had an overall losing record of 17-20. This got him promoted to the HC job at UT in the SEC. He has led the UT program to its first ever 2 consecutive losing seasons mark, has an overall losing record of 11-14 at UT (4-12 in the SEC) and to be honest, this year won't be any better after the defection of 7 assistants. He was not, is not and never will be ready for a job of the magnitude of UT. He has been given everything the easy way in his life. O'brien earned his place in the coaching ranks, and 108 wins and 11 bowls later, you cannot compare Dooley with O'brien. Get serious.:loco:

Compa
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O'Brien has a very impressive bowl winning record, which is 8-2, which demonstrates how well he has his team prepared at the end of the season. On the other hand he hasn't really gone up against any monster opponents in those bowl games. BC/NC State are not attractive football opponents nationally and they never get in marquee games, which is one of the reasons why we aren't playing NCSU on Saturday Labor Day weekend and our game is on ESPNU. In the bowl games O'Brien coached he only coached against 1 SEC school, which was UGA, no Big 10 schools, no Big 12 schools and neither USC/Oregon out of the Pac 12. His biggest opponents were UGA in Nashville, WVU in Charlotte, Boise State, which are solid but not program changing wins. The 2011 game was virtually a home game for NC State against Louisville in Charlotte.

What isn't impressive is O'Brien's record at the start of the season at NC State (1-4, not including the two D2 schools he started with in 2010/2011).

2007 1st game: Raleigh, NC - UCF 25, NC State 23
2008 1st game: Columbia, SC - USCe 34, NC State 0
2009 1st game: Raleigh, NC - USCe 7, NC State 3
2010 1st real game: Orlando NC State 38, UCF 31
2011 1st real game Winston Salem Wake 34, NCSU 27

Dooley can be compared to O'Brien. Dooley graduated from a top 10 university, a tier 1 law school and passed the Georgia bar, which are three things that were absolutely never handed to him by any means whatsoever and are equal if not harder than being in the Marine Corps. Dooley also has three top 20 recruiting classes that will be on full display next year, whereas O'Brien has no top 20 and probably not top 30 recruiting classes the past three years despite winning seasons the past two years. It took O'Brien four years to get NC State turned around and three years to get BC. Dooley is in his third year and finally has the tools to make it happen. He will make it happen.

While O'Brien is polishing up his playbooks and watching film, Dooley and his staff have obtained the talent they need to beat medicore ACC teams. We haven't played ACC teams in the beginning of the season recently, only at the end of the year (except Duke in the early 2000's and won a nailbiter at home). Vols have the emotional edge and talent in this game. The game will be close, but our team and coaches have much more to play for and will be redeeming themselves from the Kentucky disaster.
 
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#208
#208
I've seen a fair share of both teams and to be honest, State just isn't that great. Their only win of note last year was Clemson and that can be attributed to the fact Clemson didn't even show up since they already had the division in hand. NC State always starts off slow and gets better as the year goes on. I think this should be similar to the Bama-Clemson Chick-Fil-A game that was in Atlanta a few years ago with Tenn just coming out on fire right away and making it a one sided affair.

Now if we can just get that neutral game against Tenn in Bristol scheduled sometime soon. As ridiculous of an idea as that is, both schools would make alot of money and it would sell alot of tickets.
 
#210
#210
King Webbsticles said:
In your opinion. In their opinion, he hasn't been pre-judged.
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How is it a matter of opinion? Did he or did he not take over a LT program that was horrible? Did he or did he not inherit a UT roster as low on experience and talent as it has been since early Majors?

Your opinion doesn't hold any more credence than anyone else's. I don't mind you, sjt18, but sometimes you give off an air of conceit in your posts. Otherwise, you bring out some good topics of discussion.
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I'm honestly just trying to be challenging... certainly not conceited in any respect. But it is annoying when people pluck "performance" out of its context. I honest to goodness have NO stake in Dooley. But you don't get to where you want to go from where UT started by make irrational, subjective moves. These last two years were destined to be hard. Kiffin would have done better I believe if for no other reason than several potential contributors would have stayed at UT. Who knows maybe Douglas would still be alive and playing?

Iron sharpens iron. When someone responds with facts and is willing to joust on the basis of facts... its all good even when it seems to be heated. Its the shallow or subjective "proof" that I really dislike.
 
#211
#211
King Webbsticles said:
Even so. Disagreeing with differing opinions in completely understandable. Giving off the perception that you are the only one with enough life experiences to make you correct is entirely different.

But I agree with your post. And it happens with posters on both sides of the fence.
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That isn't my opinion but it could be a fair criticism. I appreciate it.
 
#212
#212
Yankee_Vol said:
I'd take O'Brien all day everyday over Dooley. And your analogy doesn't really work. Dooley was a HC before.
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HC of a historically weak program that most agree he improved. How is an unfinished job proof that you cannot produce a good product?

If asked at the time Dooley took the job, I certainly would have chosen O'Brien. For whatever reason, alot of guys paid to make that type of position have a different opinion of him.
 
#214
#214
esarmstrong said:
Good enough to beat us, I'm afraid.
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No one in their right mind denies that they are. However the likely outcome IMO is a comfortable Vol win.... if Dooley can coach.

This IS a good test. Based on talent, the only way NCSU wins or stays in it is if O'Brien and staff outcoach Dooley and staff. It will not be the last straw... but it will be a bunch of straw.
 
#215
#215
sjt18 said:
No one in their right mind denies that they are. However the likely outcome IMO is a comfortable Vol win.... if Dooley can coach.

This IS a good test. Based on talent, the only way NCSU wins or stays in it is if O'Brien and staff outcoach Dooley and staff. It will not be the last straw... but it will be a bunch of straw.
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It's not hard to out coach Dooley
 
#216
#216
When did it become unacceptable for fans to overlook teams?

I expect us to win and win big. I will stand by my statement that the ACC blows, because it does.
 
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#217
#217
Ron Swanson said:
Actually, it's very close. Just because Watkins isn't a Vol doesn't mean you should discount him. Dude is a baller. His freshman season was much better than either JH or DR's freshman campaigns. And predicting NFL careers isn't very easy.
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JH and DR have nfl frames. They are better WRs. It has nothing to do with Watkins not being a Vol. It has everything to do with him being 6' and a speedster which are not generally big shots in the nfl at the WR position. He also could he shorter than 6'. JH and DR have also ran more NFL routes. Again, I'll go with those two any day of the week.
 
#219
#219
sjt18 said:
Thanks for the help.
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You and I come from pretty much the same place.

For the record, I don't see in your posts what KingWebb does. I don't think that you propose that you are the only person with enough life experience to have a valid opinion. That is a complete fabrication.

I do see that you offer insight from the life experiences that you do have, and that's really all anyone of us can do... offer insight from life experiences, gathered insight and knowledge.

For the good of UT I hope that CDD gets it done. I think he's inherited two tough rebuilds and we've seen no "final results" of him as a head coach. The jury is out.

My beef is the segment of the population here that seem to predict the future while divorcing recent results from their context.

Anyway... It's a free board. And thanks for your level-headed responses on the subject.

:hi:
 
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#224
#224
They have a really good team, and have as much to prove as we do. This game is going to be such a test for the Vols. Best passing attack we will see for the season id bet.
 
#225
#225
Alot of people are assuming that we should win this game. I hope so, but I bet this game is a pick 'em or very close to it come game time.
 
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