How far did Dooley set us back?

#101
#101
metafour said:
I'm retarded?

Let me paint you the picture of what Nick Saban walked into at Alabama: Inherited a team coming off NCAA sanctions and still feeling the effects. Inherited a team that had three different head coaches from 2000 to 2006. Followed a guy who couldn't recruit OR coach, and thus inherited a piss-poor team who had neither talent nor bravado. Inherited a team that had lost 5 straight games to its cross-state rival, marking one of the most lop-sided runs in the entire history of the Iron Bowl.

In his first season he comes in and takes all the top talent in the state while running off all the **** that Mike Shula left behind. In his second season he wins 12 games, takes the SEC West title, and destroys Auburn 36-0. In his third season he wins the National Championship.

So please, let me continue to see you cry about how badly Dooley set you back, and how its going to take Butch Jones 10 years to claw his way out from the basement (LOL). Dooley was a bad coach, thats it. Great coaches make drastic improvements within 2 years on the job, whereas average coaches have the fanbase making excuses for 3+ years before reality finally sets in. You think Dooley was a bad coach? Gus Malzahn followed a guy who managed to go from a 14-0 National Championship to 3 wins (and fired) within two seasons. Two.

The excuses are weak. Derek Dooley is not responsible for the fact that Butch Jones can't manage to beat a historically bad Florida team who is primed to fire their head coach at any passing moment...AT HOME.
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Wait...Saban inherited a team that one season before had won ten games, and the previous season won 6, I believe...it wasn't like he inherited a team that hadn't been to a bowl in 4 years. And Saban's first year he lost to a directional Louisiana school that is far worse than than the worst Florida team to ever take the field, at least in terms of talent.
 
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#103
#103
2for2VOL said:
I remember when Kiffin left, one of the big discussions was about how far his exit set back the program. Most people thought the full rebuilding job would take 2-4 years.

Then Dooley camp and and dropped a hot, steamy deuce all over the program.

How far did that set us back?

The success of Ole Miss and Mississippi State have many Vol fans, including myself, jealous. I want us to be the team that pulls it together and goes on a historic run. We, as a fan base and football program have gone through more than any other in recent years, yet remain loyal and supportive with game attendance, TV ratings, and monetary support through donations and purchases. We deserve better.

We see Butch in year two and feel we should be further along. I would agree, except we're not starting from square one with Butch.

We're starting from square negative 3 or 4.

This is more than a rebuilding/remodeling project. We've got to clear the land, dig the foundation, pour and lay the footing, and so on.

The sad fact is we're still in for some growing pains. The good thing is, I don't think Butch sleeps and he's recruiting at an elite level.

For the millionth time, be patient. I think mid way through next year we'll be out of the Dooley hole and will begin progressing and see this staff's work pay off.
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Amen^^^
 
#104
#104
armchair said:
I'm SICK hearing about Dooley. Give it a freakin' rest. He's not here, hasn't been here for a while. How many of the excuse-makers here think that Saban, had he been coaching UT this year or the last two years, would have lost the florida game? He would have kicked florida's ass--even with our OL/youth/talent issues. He would have won that game. Good coaches and staff show that they are good--and pretty quickly. They overachieve--that's the only way you get over the hump.
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Yeah he would have won that game with all the offensive line talent he did not recruit. Zero in 2012. No OL I'm 2012. None.
 
#105
#105
armchair said:
I'm SICK hearing about Dooley. Give it a freakin' rest. He's not here, hasn't been here for a while. How many of the excuse-makers here think that Saban, had he been coaching UT this year or the last two years, would have lost the florida game? He would have kicked florida's ass--even with our OL/youth/talent issues. He would have won that game. Good coaches and staff show that they are good--and pretty quickly. They overachieve--that's the only way you get over the hump.
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Ok serious question, at this moment, what is the biggest problem with UT? Defensive line? Secondary? LB? Offensive line? QB play? RB? TE? WR? Or special teams?
 
#106
#106
TGVol said:
Dooley did set Jones back quite a lot when his great offense pounded the crap out of that poor b-cat team few years ago.
Check out b-cats #26 and #24 struggling through their snap and clear protocol after Da'Rick and Hunter had themselves a party in the end zone.

darick-rogers-against-cincinnati-9-12.1247-650.jpg
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Three NFL (capable) players in Butchs defense, but I get your point.
 
#107
#107
Dooley was a terrible head coach, but the bottom line is he took UT to a bowl game in year one and it was a game UT should have won. The ten second runoff is now a rule because of that game.


Butch Jones? He's not going to take the team to a bowl game through two years. His only advantage over Dooley is being a better recruiter, but even Dooley brought in Top 25 classes. Butch also has that win against South Carolina. That's it. Oh, and Dooley kicked his ass in Neyland. If Butch was such a great coach, he should have been able to out-scheme a Dooley-led UT team.



He might get the program back to 7-8 wins, but anyone who thinks he will win championships at UT is delusional. His coaching staff is nowhere near good enough to win big in the SEC.



I read that article from the Cincinnati fan about Tuberville blaming Butch for the terrible recruits he left. While it might be incorrect, what isn't incorrect is his knock on Butch's ridiculous catch phrases. He's a used car salesman when it comes to those. He did the same damn thing at Cincy, so don't think he has some special love for UT. He doesn't. If he gets canned from UT in a couple years, he'll have more catch phrases at his next coaching stop.
 
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#108
#108
cwbytruckers said:
To many PlayStation and Xbox coaches on here for my taste. Arguably the worst situation for any coach. Every sports talk show has said more than once the difficult task this coaching staff has. And that Butch Jones is doing a phenominal job. Yet you have haters being haters. And bandwagon fans jumping on and off at their convienence. After the Alabama game it will be worse on here. So don't hold your breath for these idiots to go away anytime soon. And for all those crying about how Missouri beat Florida. They didn't do it with all offense. Two defensive and two special team scores. Florida had two weeks to prepare for our offense. And Ole Miss used better players to implement the same game plan. And Alabama will do the same thing. Unless this OL grows up quickly (not happening) this week. Alabama will cruise this week.
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This is pretty much it. I have been watching UT football religiously since I was 11. I was a student through the early Majors years going to class with Willie Gault. It was rough, but I sat in the stadium during the World's Fair when we snapped the Bama streak of 11. We beat ND and lost to Army and Rutgers. I have seen good, bad and exceptional. I bleed orange. We will be back. It will take time. Butch will get it done. We have made progress. The OL will get better and recruits will come, but confidence and fan support are key components of that progress.
 
#110
#110
VolInFlorida said:
Dooley was a terrible head coach, but the bottom line is he took UT to a bowl game in year one and it was a game UT should have won. The ten second runoff is now a rule because of that game.


Butch Jones? He's not going to take the team to a bowl game through two years. His only advantage over Dooley is being a better recruiter, but even Dooley brought in Top 25 classes. Butch also has that win against South Carolina. That's it. Oh, and Dooley kicked his ass in Neyland. If Butch was such a great coach, he should have been able to out-scheme a Dooley-led UT team.



He might get the program back to 7-8 wins, but anyone who thinks he will win championships at UT is delusional. His coaching staff is nowhere near good enough to win big in the SEC.



I read that article from the Cincinnati fan about Tuberville blaming Butch for the terrible recruits he left. While it might be incorrect, what isn't incorrect is his knock on Butch's ridiculous catch phrases. He's a used car salesman when it comes to those. He did the same damn thing at Cincy, so don't think he has some special love for UT. He doesn't. If he gets canned from UT in a couple years, he'll have more catch phrases at his next coaching stop.
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Butch isn't going to a bowl game this year?

If you can see the future that clear could you please give me the winning powerball number this week. You guys are ridiculous we have 4 very winnable games left on our schedule and you have already written them off as losses. What are you going to come on here and say if somehow we get to 8 wins.
 
#111
#111
JPL said:
Dooley is no longer the problem. He recruited reasonably well while at TN. Granted he had the yr without an OL recruit but overall his classes were in the Top 20 which does not translate to the mess so many want to say he created. This is Butch' team now and has been for almost two years. The fact is Butch has recruited lights out but his in game coaching is below average. :no:
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You do realize that the reason we suck, is because of our OL? Thats where Dooley hurt us the most. If he had recruited some, we'd have at least an average OL, and we would be 4-2, at least. We have all the talent everywhere else to be a pretty good football team.
 
#112
#112
volfan411 said:
Butch isn't going to a bowl game this year?

If you can see the future that clear could you please give me the winning powerball number this week. You guys are ridiculous we have 4 very winnable games left on our schedule and you have already written them off as losses. What are you going to come on here and say if somehow we get to 8 wins.
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This team is going to have to win 2/3 from SC, Missouri, and Kentucky. I doubt they do it.
 
#113
#113
Just because people are sick of hearing about Dooley and other "excuses" (which are actually facts) doesn't make the reasoning behind our suckage any less true.
 
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#114
#114
Lost at least 2 recruiting classes because of Kiffin/Dooley hire. Dooley's recruiting set us back at least 4 years from relevance starting in 2011 so you do the match.
 
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#115
#115
Let me see.....please correct me if I'm wrong.....

Exhibit A) We play one of the toughest schedules in the country (top 5 toughest).....

Exhibit B) We play more true freshman (23) than any other program in the country.....

Exhibit C) We have an entirely new O-line with 2-3 true freshman starting on it.....

Exhibit D) While our QB is tough, he's not a game-changer or has a down-field arm....

And we're 3-4 with 3 of those losses to top-10 teams.

Yep, we're about where we should be I guess although the Florida thing still ticks me off.
 
#116
#116
smokeyman15 said:
Three NFL (capable) players in Butchs defense, but I get your point.
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Dooley had NFL coaches on the offensive staff - that's the difference. North and Malone are just as talented as Hunter and Rogers but they are not being put in position to make plays due to pathetic play calling. Yes North probably should have caught that pass everyone is talking about but overall not enough balls are thrown to him (same in UF game). Even Pig Howard is not being involved enough.
 
#117
#117
armchair said:
Seriously, dudes: I'm sick of hearing about Dooley. He's not the coach--hasn't been for a long time. Stop blaming Dooley for our crap. He's gone. It is Jones's team, period. You know what Dooley is--just another excuse.
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You're basically blaming the janitor for cleaning up someone else's mess
 
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#119
#119
metafour said:
Dooley did not set you back anywhere near as bad as some of you like to hope.
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^^^This^^^

It seems to be the convenient excuse to let Butch off for bad performance after bad performance. At some point, you have to not be satisfied with "we almost won, but .."

There was quite a few players on the team now from the Dooley era and add to that those that are on NFL rosters after the end of last year and suddenly the cupboard doesn't look like it was nearly as bare. And these are players on offense and defense but it's just too easy to blame the last guy (sounds like the government right now).

Now, is the current O-line bad? Yep, but there are guys that are not true freshman on that roster that could have gotten quite a bit of experience last year but why didn't they? Why were they not on the field for a few series a game, knowing full well how many o-lineman were leaving the team at year's end? Add to that, look at an NFL team like Tampa Bay who started the year with what was known to be a patchwork, very iffy offensive line. Fans used the line as an excuse for everything because they hadn't started together, some were inexperienced and blah blah blah. But now 6 or 7 games into it, much like UT's line, THEY ARE NO LONGER INEXPERIENCED, they are just bad. And that goes to coaching.
 
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#120
#120
TGVol said:
Dooley had NFL coaches on the offensive staff - that's the difference. North and Malone are just as talented as Hunter and Rogers but they are not being put in position to make plays due to pathetic play calling. Yes North probably should have caught that pass everyone is talking about but overall not enough balls are thrown to him (same in UF game). Even Pig Howard is not being involved enough.
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North was recruited primarily by Dooley's guys
 
#121
#121
TGVol said:
Dooley had NFL coaches on the offensive staff - that's the difference. North and Malone are just as talented as Hunter and Rogers but they are not being put in position to make plays due to pathetic play calling. Yes North probably should have caught that pass everyone is talking about but overall not enough balls are thrown to him (same in UF game). Even Pig Howard is not being involved enough.
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You want to know why they're not getting in position? We have the worst line in TN history who by years end will have probably given up the most sacks in history. Opposing coaches are not stupid. When you have a line that terrible you play in your mouth press coverage on the receivers. You could say when the receiver gets locked up at the line for 1-2 seconds, usually someone has already started to get pressure on Worley, or hes already been sacked. Hell if I was playing TN I would do it all game and dare Worley to throw it up.
 
#125
#125
metafour said:
Because that is your only potential defense to the fact that Butch Jones has accomplished next to nothing on the actual field of play to date. If you convince yourself that Dooley somehow screwed you up so badly that it set new historical definitions for "setting us back", then it gives you an avenue to convince yourselves that Butch just "needs more time".
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Fact.....he does need more time. DD will go down as the worst coach in UT history. Other than the VFL program, tell me one positive from his time here?
 
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