How far did Dooley set us back?

#51
#51
metafour said:
I'm retarded?

Let me paint you the picture of what Nick Saban walked into at Alabama: Inherited a team coming off NCAA sanctions and still feeling the effects. Inherited a team that had three different head coaches from 2000 to 2006. Followed a guy who couldn't recruit OR coach, and thus inherited a piss-poor team who had neither talent nor bravado. Inherited a team that had lost 5 straight games to its cross-state rival, marking one of the most lop-sided runs in the entire history of the Iron Bowl.

In his first season he comes in and takes all the top talent in the state while running off all the **** that Mike Shula left behind. In his second season he wins 12 games, takes the SEC West title, and destroys Auburn 36-0. In his third season he wins the National Championship.

So please, let me continue to see you cry about how badly Dooley set you back, and how its going to take Butch Jones 10 years to claw his way out from the basement (LOL). Dooley was a bad coach, thats it. Great coaches make drastic improvements within 2 years on the job, whereas average coaches have the fanbase making excuses for 3+ years before reality finally sets in. You think Dooley was a bad coach? Gus Malzahn followed a guy who managed to go from a 14-0 National Championship to 3 wins (and fired) within two seasons. Two.

The excuses are weak. Derek Dooley is not responsible for the fact that Butch Jones can't manage to beat a historically bad Florida team who is primed to fire their head coach at any passing moment...AT HOME.
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The situations you gave above are not comparable to the situation Tennessee is currently in.

To start, Saban was a damn NFL coach when he decided to come to Alabama. That's not even to mention his national championship at LSU. Talk about a proven, known commodity. Butch is (at least Vol fans hope he is) an up and comer looking to make a name for himself on the biggest stage.

As far as Gus goes... He walked back into a program he'd built with Chiz from 09-11 with top recruits. He knew all the players, how they would fit into his system and what pieces he still needed. He then recruited the pieces he still needed (i.e. Nick Marshall, a 4-star) and made them fit.

Butch walked into a more difficult than Malzahn, and though his situation likely wasn't as dire as Alabama when Saban arrived, he wasn't an NFL coach returning to fix a down program.

The players that are on Tennessee's roster are just plain bad. You seem like a fan of Alabama or Auburn, so just take time and watch a full Tennessee game. The players are painfully slow (especially the secondary) and the lines are always physically overmatched.

There are a few gems (AJ, Cam Sutton, WRs) and potential gems (Hurd, TKJr and Barnett), but for the most part the roster is not made up of SEC quality players. Not even to mention the wasteland that is the offensive and defensive line.

Tennessee fans get it. The results still aren't there. But there's only one way to cure this infected program as our disease extends into its 7th season: Flushing the system.

That's begun under CBJ. It hurts watching freshmen get overwhelmed by the likes of Eric Striker, Nkemdiche and others. But there's only way for them to learn and improve, and that's to play.

It hurts and is painful to watch, but there's only one way through it.
 
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#52
#52
I think we only have 1 redshirt sr this year... And it's our punter Matt Darr. No other sec team I see is dealing with that. Also I think our freshman class is as good as any in the nation. I cross my fingers that butch rebuilds like they did at fsu. Minus the crab legs
 
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#53
#53
At least 5 years.

While Kiffin was the worst person to ever coach football, Dooley was the worst coach to ever walk the sidelines. I know Dooley isn't a bad man but it is really hard to not hate the guy for how much damage he did.
 
#54
#54
metafour said:
I'm retarded?

Let me paint you the picture of what Nick Saban walked into at Alabama: Inherited a team coming off NCAA sanctions and still feeling the effects. Inherited a team that had three different head coaches from 2000 to 2006. Followed a guy who couldn't recruit OR coach, and thus inherited a piss-poor team who had neither talent nor bravado. Inherited a team that had lost 5 straight games to its cross-state rival, marking one of the most lop-sided runs in the entire history of the Iron Bowl.

In his first season he comes in and takes all the top talent in the state while running off all the **** that Mike Shula left behind. In his second season he wins 12 games, takes the SEC West title, and destroys Auburn 36-0. In his third season he wins the National Championship.

So please, let me continue to see you cry about how badly Dooley set you back, and how its going to take Butch Jones 10 years to claw his way out from the basement (LOL). Dooley was a bad coach, thats it. Great coaches make drastic improvements within 2 years on the job, whereas average coaches have the fanbase making excuses for 3+ years before reality finally sets in. You think Dooley was a bad coach? Gus Malzahn followed a guy who managed to go from a 14-0 National Championship to 3 wins (and fired) within two seasons. Two.

The excuses are weak. Derek Dooley is not responsible for the fact that Butch Jones can't manage to beat a historically bad Florida team who is primed to fire their head coach at any passing moment...AT HOME.
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These are good points. You won't win any popularity contests, but I think you are correct.
 
#55
#55
2 Years Max. That is being kind, anymore than that, all you have is drunk fan boys making excuses. Dooley sucked, however; I'm betting the same fan boys booed and hissed when those concerned about UT Football said anything, it took them a while to catch on. 3 or 4 years is ridiculous, why not 6 or 8? Winners find a way, this isn't BS, look around, you'll find coaches that have taken crap teams in one or two years had winning programs. Some act like this is impossible, and TN shouldn't expect such a thing! Again, BS, Vols deserve and expect that kind of coaching. This Must be the last year of excuses!!!
 
#58
#58
The problem is multifaceted.

1) Recruiting rankings are ordinal, i.e. there isn't a clean indicator of the magnitude of change between two ranks. In other words, how much better 1 is over 2 could be very different for 16 as compared to 17.
2) You can create a good ranking by loading up on "stars" without building depth across positions. Depth is directly related to scheme.
3) Also, the recruiting rank metric is a relative measure year to year. So, it's a good way to see how a team is stacking up against everyone else, but it doesn't present itself as a measure on internal gains / losses.
4) The level of competition and talent in the SEC is so much greater than some may have realized. I think there are multiple learning curves at play and ongoing simultaneously.
5) The SEC is relentless conference. One bad season, or a lack of needed depth, can change the course of the entire following season for a team. Recruiting is an additive process.

If CBJ keeps bringing in Top-5 classes while building depth, I'm willing to give him until the end of the 2016 season. It would be the first time in nearly 10 years that one full recruiting class has had the same coaching staff for their entire college football career. At that point, the body of work should speak for itself - either you are successful or not.
 
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#59
#59
Boca Vol said:
Most UT fans are putting all of their hopes in Butch Jones and convinced themselves that Dooley is the sole reason the team is where it is on 10/19/2014.

If Dooley isn't the sole reason, them it may mean that Butch isn't the next coming of General Neyland.
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Well right now our current problems are 1) terrible offensive line and 2) mediocre QB play.

Dooley failed to recruit any OL in 2012 and he recruited Worley. We have lost all of our games this season because of bad OL and QB play. so please explain how its not his fault.
 
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#61
#61
metafour said:
I'm retarded?

Let me paint you the picture of what Nick Saban walked into at Alabama: Inherited a team coming off NCAA sanctions and still feeling the effects. Inherited a team that had three different head coaches from 2000 to 2006. Followed a guy who couldn't recruit OR coach, and thus inherited a piss-poor team who had neither talent nor bravado. Inherited a team that had lost 5 straight games to its cross-state rival, marking one of the most lop-sided runs in the entire history of the Iron Bowl.

In his first season he comes in and takes all the top talent in the state while running off all the **** that Mike Shula left behind. In his second season he wins 12 games, takes the SEC West title, and destroys Auburn 36-0. In his third season he wins the National Championship.

So please, let me continue to see you cry about how badly Dooley set you back, and how its going to take Butch Jones 10 years to claw his way out from the basement (LOL). Dooley was a bad coach, thats it. Great coaches make drastic improvements within 2 years on the job, whereas average coaches have the fanbase making excuses for 3+ years before reality finally sets in. You think Dooley was a bad coach? Gus Malzahn followed a guy who managed to go from a 14-0 National Championship to 3 wins (and fired) within two seasons. Two.

The excuses are weak. Derek Dooley is not responsible for the fact that Butch Jones can't manage to beat a historically bad Florida team who is primed to fire their head coach at any passing moment...AT HOME.
Click to expand...

Ok. You win. Butch and staff will be fired after the Bama game and you will be our new head coach. I am glad we finally have an answer to our problem. Thanks for coming to help. Just a few things though for you to remember so you won't make the same mistakes. We had Taj Boyd and Kiffin sent him away. BO Wallace was interested and Dooley wasn't. I would say that Butch might have a little better record with those guys instead of Worley, but hey, that is not an excuse. Just please let me know when you are ready and I will re up my tickets since you obviously can match Saban, Freeze and Malzahn's success immediately. I am ready... Thanks for helping.
 
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#62
#62
metafour said:
I'm retarded?

Let me paint you the picture of what Nick Saban walked into at Alabama: Inherited a team coming off NCAA sanctions and still feeling the effects. Inherited a team that had three different head coaches from 2000 to 2006. Followed a guy who couldn't recruit OR coach, and thus inherited a piss-poor team who had neither talent nor bravado. Inherited a team that had lost 5 straight games to its cross-state rival, marking one of the most lop-sided runs in the entire history of the Iron Bowl.

In his first season he comes in and takes all the top talent in the state while running off all the **** that Mike Shula left behind. In his second season he wins 12 games, takes the SEC West title, and destroys Auburn 36-0. In his third season he wins the National Championship.

So please, let me continue to see you cry about how badly Dooley set you back, and how its going to take Butch Jones 10 years to claw his way out from the basement (LOL). Dooley was a bad coach, thats it. Great coaches make drastic improvements within 2 years on the job, whereas average coaches have the fanbase making excuses for 3+ years before reality finally sets in. You think Dooley was a bad coach? Gus Malzahn followed a guy who managed to go from a 14-0 National Championship to 3 wins (and fired) within two seasons. Two.

The excuses are weak. Derek Dooley is not responsible for the fact that Butch Jones can't manage to beat a historically bad Florida team who is primed to fire their head coach at any passing moment...AT HOME.
Click to expand...

College football's 10 worst hires during the BCS Era include five former SEC coaches

1.Ron Zook (Florida, Illinois)
2.Gene Chizik (Iowa State, Auburn)
3.Tim Brewster (Minnesota)
4.Lane Kiffin (Tennessee, USC)
5.Derek Dooley (Tennessee)
6.Charlie Weis (Notre Dame, Kansas)
7.Mike Stoops (Arizona)
8.John L. Smith (Michigan State, Arkansas)
9.Bill Callahan (Nebraska)
10.Dan Hawkins (Colorado)

So tell me where Mike Shula is on this list. You can spew all the stupid trash you want. The facts are that UT hired two coaches who were losers before they ever got to UT. They also happen to be two of the worst coaches in the BCS era. Keep thinking you know what you are talking about.
 
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#63
#63
g8terh8ter_eric said:
To echo others in this thread, stop having a victim mentality, and focus on what we have now. What we have now is recruiting well, but I'm not seeing the coaching/development on the offensive side of the ball, versus what we are seeing on the defensive side of the ball. The only coaches on the offensive side of the ball with SEC experience is Azzanni and Gillespie, and the rest have been Butch's guys since Central Michigan. They haven't developed talent at the SEC level, and it shows. That being said, if they don't show improvement by year 3, Butch will have to make some changes on that side of the ball if he wishes to move forward past year 4.
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It's hard to disagree with this post, however, the OL players we have seem to NOT have the talent to play in this league. It's real hard to tell if it's coaching or a talent issue. I'm leaning toward the talent issue because I've seen true freshmen play before at many schools, and we've had a few ourselves, but these guys are not very athletic and guys just run around them. Our skill players are certainly SEC level.
 
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#64
#64
1Big_Orange_Fan said:
It's hard to disagree with this post, however, the OL players we have seem to NOT have the talent to play in this league. It's real hard to tell if it's coaching or a talent issue. I'm leaning toward the talent issue because I've seen true freshmen play before at many schools, and we've had a few ourselves, but these guys are not very athletic and guys just run around them. Our skill players are certainly SEC level.
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I think its both with a few of those guys having some skills that can make them serviceable players
 
#65
#65
JPL said:
Dooley is no longer the problem. He recruited reasonably well while at TN. Granted he had the yr without an OL recruit but overall his classes were in the Top 20 which does not translate to the mess so many want to say he created. This is Butch' team now and has been for almost two years. The fact is Butch has recruited lights out but his in game coaching is below average. :no:
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If Tennessee ranked in the 20's recruiting wise while Dooley was here where do think they ranked in the SEC in recruiting? I would say around 8th to 10th.
 
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#66
#66
BigOrangeTrain said:
College football's 10 worst hires during the BCS Era include five former SEC coaches

1.Ron Zook (Florida, Illinois)
2.Gene Chizik (Iowa State, Auburn)
3.Tim Brewster (Minnesota)
4.Lane Kiffin (Tennessee, USC)
5.Derek Dooley (Tennessee)
6.Charlie Weis (Notre Dame, Kansas)
7.Mike Stoops (Arizona)
8.John L. Smith (Michigan State, Arkansas)
9.Bill Callahan (Nebraska)
10.Dan Hawkins (Colorado)

So tell me where Mike Shula is on this list. You can spew all the stupid trash you want. The facts are that UT hired two coaches who were losers before they ever got to UT. They also happen to be two of the worst coaches in the BCS era. Keep thinking you know what you are talking about.
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That list is pretty funny.
 
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#67
#67
JPL said:
And he needed another one this year and a dismal FL team would have done it. Fact is we were 5-7 last year with several NFL lineman starting on our offensive line and we are looking at the same this year
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1. with 2 hurt qb's ..

2.with a truly young line and out of position


nice try tho,
 
#69
#69
aaronvol said:
14 of the 27 seniors are left from dooley.
10 of 22 juniors...
then half of 2013 guys weren't butch's guys...and half of them are gone. so...really butch inherited half a team, which is now being replaced with freshmen. dooley buried us.
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This is a pretty accurate statement. All you Butch haters read this.
 
#71
#71
Will we never get over Dooley? Geez, I assure you he is over us. I see him smiling on the Cowboy sidelines every Sunday. And why not? His team is a winner.:hi:
 
#72
#72
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Kiffin hurt also? I mean the guys he recruited the one year, didn't they all get dismissed for all reasons known to man? You are right OP, we all are jealous of Miss St and Ole Miss but even they didn't go thru the problem that the VOLS have endured the last 6 years. I believe Butch has his contract to turn this thing around and we all need to at least support him and this staff until such time the maturity and growing pains are over. (1-2 more years)
Then the jury will be out. One thing for sure, if he keeps recruiting like he has been, it will come down to coaching ability.
 
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#73
#73
At some point you have to let go of the Dooley theory and face reality. The fact is CBJ and his staff are not doing a great coaching job at this point.
 
#74
#74
Its been 1.5 years since DD Dumped on the program and burned every bridge the program had!

1.5 seasons in a position that every other top name coach turned down flat!

Obama is still blaming Bush 7 years later, just saying! :blink:



.
 
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#75
#75
Only thing from the Dooley era I would like right now. Chaney at OC. Everything and everyone else I could care less.
 
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