How can the talent debate even exist?

#1
Spartacavolus

Spartacavolus

Big Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
31,673
Likes
191
#1
Big Dan is invited to the combine. Mainly to be big and clog the middle. Otherwise, we have had no db's, lbs or dl invited to the combine in 2 years.
How do people overlook the lack of talent and speed? And act like its a non issue?

Nfl must think its more than angles, and the entire staff has discussed lack of speed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 14 people
#3
#3
If you look at the recruiting rankings over the past years, recruiting hasn't been terrible. It certainly hasn't been excellent either though. The true problem has been player development. There has been very little of that for many many years under many different coaches at UT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 people
#4
#4
oregonvol said:
How many did Vanderbilt have invited to the combine?
Click to expand...

I thought we were talking about Tennessee. Fact is we were very short on talent on the defensive side of the ball for a number of years. Everyone who knows anything about football understands that you don't win very many close games against good teams without a decent defense. I believe the Superbowl demonstrated what good defenses do to good offenses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 people
#5
#5
VolFan4Life87 said:
If you look at the recruiting rankings over the past years, recruiting hasn't been terrible. It certainly hasn't been excellent either though. The true problem has been player development. There has been very little of that for many many years under many different coaches at UT.
Click to expand...

Look at this years Senior class and tell me we weren't hurting for talent. We might have 4 senior starters and we might not. There is barely college talent there much less NFL.

Our numbers also have been artificially propped up. We virtually lost all of Kiffin's class - then there were guys like Patterson - who were one and done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#6
#6
VOLINVONORE said:
I thought we were talking about Tennessee. Fact is we were very short on talent on the defensive side of the ball for a number of years. Everyone who knows anything about football understands that you don't win very many close games against good teams without a decent defense. I believe the Superbowl demonstrated what good defenses do to good offenses.
Click to expand...

I think his point is that you don't have to have talent (a la Vanderbilt) to be competitive in football games with good coaching. Obviously talent helps, but I think Chris Peterson has showed us coaching can make up for a lot of gaps. That's probably harder to do in the SEC though, game in and game out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#7
#7
VOLINVONORE said:
I thought we were talking about Tennessee. Fact is we were very short on talent on the defensive side of the ball for a number of years. Everyone who knows anything about football understands that you don't win very many close games against good teams without a decent defense. I believe the Superbowl demonstrated what good defenses do to good offenses.
Click to expand...

Is offensive line also not important?

The point is, until we have the talent of Alabama, we'll always be able to find a weakness in the roster. Everyone has weaknesses in the roster.

But, if we're using the combine invite list as evidence we lack talent to win the games we lost last season, then we need to look at how many were invited from Vanderbilt. Oh look, it's 4. We had 5. Now how many were invited from Auburn? 5? Weird. I think we would all acknowledge the South Carolina win was a big victory, but they only had 5 as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#8
#8
Spartacavolus said:
Big Dan is invited to the combine. Mainly to be big and clog the middle. Otherwise, we have had no db's, lbs or dl invited to the combine in 2 years.
How do people overlook the lack of talent and speed? And act like its a non issue?

Nfl must think its more than angles, and the entire staff has discussed lack of speed.
Click to expand...

Speaking in Quark's voice: Well, you know how tis with hoomans, Spart. A lot don't make much cents because they haven't got any sense. But then, any Ferengi would have told you that.

Beyond that, what you say has been pretty obvious. I think one of our Gator people here once did a fine job of pointing this out with clear examples from videos of actual games. If one won't believe their eyes, ain't much you can do for them.
 
#9
#9
Here's a look at defensive recruits over the last several years (per Rivals). Some of our offensive recruits may have shifted to D at one time or another (Vincent Dallas for example) and are not shown.

Recruiting wasn't exactly stellar, but it wasn't horrendous either. The problem is I've never heard of something like half of these young men, so that means they never developed talent-wise or left the team for various reasons.
 

Attachments

  • Untitled.jpg
    Untitled.jpg
    55.4 KB · Views: 135
#10
#10
Unless I'm missing something the only defensive players drafted since 2010 are Eric Berry, Dan Williams and Malik Jackson. Is that really it?
 
#11
#11
From ESPN.com

Can't-miss prospects occasionally miss. Derek Dooley's first two classes at Tennessee in 2010 and 2011 were ranked No. 9 and No. 13, respectively, but that didn't keep the Vols from losing 25 of their last 32 SEC games.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#12
#12
Crazy to see those 5 stars by my avi. We have been through one hell of a ride VN since I joined in Jan 2009.
 
#14
#14
Spartacavolus said:
Big Dan is invited to the combine. Mainly to be big and clog the middle. Otherwise, we have had no db's, lbs or dl invited to the combine in 2 years.
How do people overlook the lack of talent and speed? And act like its a non issue?

Nfl must think its more than angles, and the entire staff has discussed lack of speed.
Click to expand...

Maybe it has something to do with most of the two deep at LB and DB the past two seasons are still in school.

Lack of talent hasn't been overlooked by most.

Lack of effort and execution down the stretch last season was too glaring not to acknowledge however.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#15
#15
Not talking about effort and execution. Talking about no defensive players drafted or even invited to the combine the last few years, while people act like there isn't a major talent and speed discrepancy.
NFL drafts speed. That's why they like the SEC. And they haven't taken any UT defensive players for speed and ability since EB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#17
#17
i've been preaching this sermon for years, including last year.

but, i was told how awesome byron moore was.

good news is butch is getting you there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#18
#18
oregonvol said:
Is offensive line also not important?

The point is, until we have the talent of Alabama, we'll always be able to find a weakness in the roster. Everyone has weaknesses in the roster.

But, if we're using the combine invite list as evidence we lack talent to win the games we lost last season, then we need to look at how many were invited from Vanderbilt. Oh look, it's 4. We had 5. Now how many were invited from Auburn? 5? Weird. I think we would all acknowledge the South Carolina win was a big victory, but they only had 5 as well.
Click to expand...
The disparity in talent between us and most teams in the conference is speed on the defensive side of the ball. Offensive line was talented and experienced. Outside of the o-line, we either lacked talent, experience, or both. Do not have to be very football savvy to realize our shortcomings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#19
#19
Spartacavolus said:
Big Dan is invited to the combine. Mainly to be big and clog the middle. Otherwise, we have had no db's, lbs or dl invited to the combine in 2 years.
How do people overlook the lack of talent and speed? And act like its a non issue?

Nfl must think its more than angles, and the entire staff has discussed lack of speed.
Click to expand...

Who is overlooking the talent and speed around here? I truly cannot imagine. :ermm:
 
#20
#20
99gator said:
i've been preaching this sermon for years, including last year.

but, i was told how awesome byron moore was.

good news is butch is getting you there.
Click to expand...
You've always told it like it is and never sugarcoat your opinion. That's why I like reading your posts over about 3/4 of the others on this site.
 
#21
#21
VolFan4Life87 said:
Here's a look at defensive recruits over the last several years (per Rivals). Some of our offensive recruits may have shifted to D at one time or another (Vincent Dallas for example) and are not shown.

Recruiting wasn't exactly stellar, but it wasn't horrendous either. The problem is I've never heard of something like half of these young men, so that means they never developed talent-wise or left the team for various reasons.
Click to expand...

Here's my report card. Not a real good story either ...
2009 report card ... D
Askew = 100% Bust
Edwards = Burger lover; left early
Gordon = 3* talent
Jackson = Stud; Loved weed > UT; left early
Jeffery = Bust
King = 3* w injuries
M-Thornton = 2* talent
Myles = S&P "BB rated"; gone
Nelson = 2* talent

2010 report card ... C-
Smith = 3* talent
Sapp = 3* overacheiver
Propst = 2* talent
Miller = Productive 4*
Loften = Sasquatch / Lochness monster
Jackson = bust
Crump = Met expectations
Clark = see above
Clark = 3* gone early
Brown = Gone early

2011 report card ...B-
Carson = Meeting expectations
Coleman = 3* talent
Couch = Told the truth
Harris = 2* talent
AJ = 4* Beast
Maggit = 4* injured
Martin = Recruited well then split
Moore = 3* talent
Orta = As expected
Randolph = 3.5* talent; injured
Saulsberry = Producer but injured
Williams = Consensus AA practice player

2012 report card ...C-
Bonner = Switched to a Mac
Bynum = 2*
Gray = Split town
Lewis = Future producer
McCullers = Productive
McNeil = 3* talent
Obrien = Future producer
Phillips = Gator envy
Sentimore = Ill advised career choice
Taylor = May produce

2013 report card ... I
Brown = TBD
Carr = 4* on schedule to produce
Jones = Injured
Miller = TBD
Sutton = 4* Producer
Vereen = Future stud
Vickers = TBD

... takes As and Bs to win in the SEC. We got work to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
#23
#23
Spartacavolus said:
they had 5 invited. We had 4. They had 2 def players in speed positions at cb and s. We have big mc.
They also have 2 wr's invited. We have 3 OL.

I imagine that's not the answer you wanted.
Click to expand...

I guarantee you it wasn't. Surprised he asked the question without knowing the answer. Fact is, anybody who tries to argue that the 2013 roster was anything better than the 9th or 10th most talented roster in the SEC has an agenda. Vandy's talent was much closer than any of us wanted to admit or believe. The 2014 class is the first step to getting that corrected.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#24
#24
Anyone that watched us play last year shouldn't be questioning the lack of talent. How many times did Auburn beat us to the edge? And Oregon?
 
#25
#25
If we had won the Georgia and Vandy games, you guys wouldn't be making the no talent excuse

That's why its being discussed
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top