Honest Question

#1
volfannbama

volfannbama

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#1
Let me preface this question with; I still support Coach Jones and what he has done for the program I think he deserves it. I don't judge things on a game by game basis. But let me ask these two question;

1. I asked my wife tonight; if someone said Butch should fired as a football coach (not recruiting etc) purely coaching; what argument would you be able to make against it?

2. The real question; We just lost to a bad team, with a high school QB and a coach that could not succeed at Florida. However, during his time at Florida, he beat Tennessee both times they played. This is the third time CBJ has lost to CWM. You can argue the talent level at Florida was equal to Tennessee, but tonight there is absolutely no argument. How can we expect to win the East when our Coach is constantly out coached by a guy that could not succeed at Florida?
 
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#2
#2
1. He beat FL and UGA in the same season. (To be coach at UT this is how you keep your job regardless the rest of the season)

2. Bama game I think showed our true colors and that we are middle of the road SEC east team.
 
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#3
#3
I said this last year and took heat for it.. but Butch is just a mediocre coach. He's not a guy that will take you to SEC Championships.

With how he handles press conferences and the excuses over the past couple of years, I want to say Butch is nothing more than a con artist.

I think he really has to over come his coaching with better assistants.. hiring Debord was not a great move and it's showing.
 
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#4
#4
TuVol4u said:
1. He beat FL and UGA in the same season. (To be coach at UT this is how you keep your job regardless the rest of the season)

2. Bama game I think showed our true colors and that we are middle of the road SEC east team.
Click to expand...

We might be a middle of the road team, USC is not?
 
#6
#6
That's why his pay is middle of the pack. Give him a big raise and extention and see this place blow up.
 
#8
#8
BoostN said:
I said this last year and took heat for it.. but Butch is just a mediocre coach. He's not a guy that will take you to SEC Championships.

With how he handles press conferences and the excuses over the past couple of years, I want to say Butch is nothing more than a con artist.

I think he really has to over come his coaching with better assistants.. hiring Debord was not a great move and it's showing.
Click to expand...

Debord will cost Jones his job if he keeps him after this year. Shoop may need to go as well as our defense is horrible too.
 
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#10
#10
OK, let's say you had a sales guy part of your team. And in his first year of "selling", he won 5 deals and lost 7. Next year he won you 7 deals. Next year 9 deals. This year he could still pull you in 10 deals. You going to fire that sales guy?

My point is the sales guy is doing something right....
 
#11
#11
And look, I know this is a stretch, BUT if FL loses to Arky, which would not be a total shocker, the pressure would start to mount on the Gators and our hopes would perk up.

Before we give up and start hiring Mary Poppins, let's let the UK and Arky games come and go. We might pull things out.
 
#12
#12
Comments made about firing Butch are short sighted and premature.

This team hasn't had consistent line play all year because of injuries.

You can't ask kids who never played a game to step in and be all americans off the bench.

I do think someone's gone, maybe two on his staff at year's end, but dont expect change with the usual suspects; unless of course we lose 2 more games.
 
#13
#13
TuVol4u said:
1. He beat FL and UGA in the same season. (To be coach at UT this is how you keep your job regardless the rest of the season)

2. Bama game I think showed our true colors and that we are middle of the road SEC east team.
Click to expand...

Not when you're the favorite to win the East and are ranked in the Top 10.
 
#14
#14
ToptheTerrible said:
OK, let's say you had a sales guy part of your team. And in his first year of "selling", he won 5 deals and lost 7. Next year he won you 7 deals. Next year 9 deals. This year he could still pull you in 10 deals. You going to fire that sales guy?

My point is the sales guy is doing something right....
Click to expand...

But what about those deals where the opposing sales guy is just better than you and you lose a lot of easy money?
 
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#15
#15
I think Butch worked his tail off and has continued to do so. I think he has brought talent back in here, not enough but better than it has been in a long time. I also think he has took it as far as he can or at least as far as his Cincy staff can take us. One of two things has to happen. Butch has to clean house minus Schoop, but Schoop has the ability to hire his defensive staff. We have a new QB next year regardless who it is so start fresh with new OC and scheme.
 
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#16
#16
volzndahood said:
I just think we ran out of bricks.
#brickbybrick
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Well... those particular style of bricks are apparently all gone. But for another 2 million or so, there are some pretty dang nice bricks out there to put the final touches on this program.
 
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#17
#17
Butch Jones has done an admirable job here of building this program back up and regardless of end result he should be revered around here. With that being said college football is cyclical and I have always had the feweling in the back of my mind that Butch is our version of Ron Zook.. He has stabilized the program but he is not the overall football coach that can take us to the perennial championship contender level.. Anybody else feel this way??? Still pulling for the guy while he is here.. It will play out however it will...
 
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#18
#18
Yankee_Vol said:
Not when you're the favorite to win the East and are ranked in the Top 10.
Click to expand...

Fulmer had several years where he was favored to win the east and beat those teams but still lost to lesser competition and kept his job. Luckily for those years they were few.

Now if Jones does the same thing next year and we tank again, then maybe somethings up.
 
#19
#19
ToptheTerrible said:
And look, I know this is a stretch, BUT if FL loses to Arky, which would not be a total shocker, the pressure would start to mount on the Gators and our hopes would perk up.

Before we give up and start hiring Mary Poppins, let's let the UK and Arky games come and go. We might pull things out.
Click to expand...

Do you really want to see Bama run over this team again?

GO VOLS!!!
 
#20
#20
ToptheTerrible said:
OK, let's say you had a sales guy part of your team. And in his first year of "selling", he won 5 deals and lost 7. Next year he won you 7 deals. Next year 9 deals. This year he could still pull you in 10 deals. You going to fire that sales guy?

My point is the sales guy is doing something right....
Click to expand...

and what is he doing right ?
 
#21
#21
ToptheTerrible said:
OK, let's say you had a sales guy part of your team. And in his first year of "selling", he won 5 deals and lost 7. Next year he won you 7 deals. Next year 9 deals. This year he could still pull you in 10 deals. You going to fire that sales guy?

My point is the sales guy is doing something right....
Click to expand...

It depends. If he was only capable of selling to rural mom and pop shops I probably keep him. However, if I needed him to sell to fortune 500 companies I'd probably hire someone else.

Are you going to keep a mom and pop salesman when you are trying to close business with a fortune 500 company?

My point is that Butch is not a fortune 500 coach ...
 
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#22
#22
BoostN said:
But what about those deals where the opposing sales guy is just better than you and you lose a lot of easy money?
Click to expand...

I know where you are coming from. I do. But when you have an employee improving at a close rate of 42%, 58%, 70%, and this year could still reach 77% - I am not firing that guy......yet :)
 
#24
#24
1985Vols said:
Debord will cost Jones his job if he keeps him after this year. Shoop may need to go as well as our defense is horrible too.
Click to expand...

I simply can't fault shoop when he's playing with 3rd and 4th string DT and LBs and half his secondary. The defense didn't break tonight. It was either feast or famine, but I've never seen so many hurt players on a defense. Unreal. Give him another year before making judgement.
 
#25
#25
teeball said:
It depends. If he was only capable of selling to rural mom and pop shops I probably keep him. However, if I needed him to sell to fortune 500 companies I'd probably hire someone else.

Are you going to keep a mom and pop salesman when you are trying to close business with a fortune 500 company?

My point is that Butch is not a fortune 500 coach ...
Click to expand...

Well I dont know about you, but beating FL and GA in my book would be closing a "big sales deals". Not sure I understand your point.
 
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