Honest and Fair Discussion

#76
#76
Carl Pickens said:
Inexperienced QB with inexperienced WRs can make a lot of coaches look bad regardless of the talent level.

LB corps are thinner than they should be
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Yep and dumb coaches can make good players look bad and put them in stressful situations where they make mistakes
 
#77
#77
I haven't quit on CBJ, but I will have a definite decision on it by the end of the season. Most people thought this was an 8 win season before it began, but to dominate Florida in the 3rd qrt and have 0 points to show for it is ridiculous coaching job. The biggest issue I have is that he shows a lack of learning on the job. The coaching from the Georgia long throw last year and the Florida long throw yesterday looked like the exact same coverage. Another problem that I see is or AD being able to make the correct decision on a new coach. Their track record is terrible, but if at the end of this year I decide that CBJ needs to go it want really matter because if you keep doing the same thing you will keep getting the same results period.
 
#78
#78
Duckcrazed said:
We put a pretty good team on the field Saturday. Defensive effort was much improved, offense was pretty good as well. Play calling inside the 20 was bad if not terrible. Was it a bad loss...yes.

That being said, the drops, the miscues I saw are correctable, looking at this schedule I still think 9 wins is doable, Kentucky is likely the swing game. Is it time to fire Butch...no, but 8 wins is my break even, if he doesn't get there, it's time to go. From what I saw Saturday, I think he will....but injuries, especially on D are piling up already.
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you can build depth in 5 years. If he doesnt have it then he hasnt done as good a job recruiting as we think. Awful lot of players that were highly touted when signed that dont sniff the playing field. Hes the longest tenured coach in the east but we still look like year 2.5
 
#79
#79
Duckcrazed said:
We put a pretty good team on the field Saturday. Defensive effort was much improved, offense was pretty good as well. Play calling inside the 20 was bad if not terrible. Was it a bad loss...yes.

That being said, the drops, the miscues I saw are correctable, looking at this schedule I still think 9 wins is doable, Kentucky is likely the swing game. Is it time to fire Butch...no, but 8 wins is my break even, if he doesn't get there, it's time to go. From what I saw Saturday, I think he will....but injuries, especially on D are piling up already.
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Its hard because all of season... Most had us in that 7/8 win prediction.

And that put the Florida game as one of those games we would likely lose.

Then you see the game. And it has gone from a game you thought you might lose to a game you most certainly should have won.

It doesn't carry the same weight to say "we were predicted to lose" as "we should've won" once the game played out.... And call it a wash.
 
#80
#80
Let's not do a LSU thing CJB recruits well, his program is clean, and HE WANTS TO BE HERE, but gameday ????????? he mentions situational football a lot, well he needs situational awareness too! I say I can stand one more year and a top 10 recruiting class
 
#81
#81
jakez4ut said:
Agreed.

That said... Redemption is still available on the schedule.

We'll see if he can go get it.
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It's available, but after singing the same song different verse Sat, I have no reason to believe that it's taken.

It's a duck.
 
#82
#82
jim285pro said:
you can build depth in 5 years. If he doesnt have it then he hasnt done as good a job recruiting as we think. Awful lot of players that were highly touted when signed that dont sniff the playing field. Hes the longest tenured coach in the east but we still look like year 2.5
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He's recruited well, but he's failed at effectively developing talent. It's year 5 and we are still paper thin at several positions, and very few players are maximizing their talent and skills in Butch's system. That's going to come back and bite him on the recruiting trail, as every other school is going to be able to use it to negative recruit UT.
 
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#84
#84
I'm beginning to feel Butch Has indeed reached his zenith with the Vols

By the end of October everyone including the Pope, will know the direction Butch has the Vols headed, unfortunately?
 
#87
#87
There were red flags on Butch before Tennessee hired him. Remember the Cincinnati game against Dooley? Cincinnati had the upper hand early. There were multiple short yard situations, some on 4th down, that TN stopped due to poor play calling. TN couldn't stop the read option that game, but in short yardage situations Butch went under center and tried to run a telegraphed play right into the teeth of a stronger SEC defense. Eventually TN's talent on offense took over. But had Butch stuck with what was working, Cincinnati could have won that game. Ultimately he let Dooley out coach him. That says everything.

Butch is a finesse coach. That worked at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. It doesn't work in the SEC. He could have out-finessed TN that day, but he tried to play power in certain situations and it backfired, even though TN wasn't that strong physically then.

Now his weakness is on the line of scrimmage, both sides. Butch just doesn't know power, big time football. His offensive system and play calling proves it. In the SEC, you can't win by guessing all the time. He's in over his head and I think he knows it deep down. He tries to get by over preparing and over coaching. That doesn't work in this conference. You pick the biggest, strongest, fastest players - teach them the fundamentals and turn them loose. Butch can't do that - it's not in him because he doesn't know it himself. It's why he picks the Colton Jumper's over the Bituli's. At Cincinnati, that works. In the SEC, it doesn't. It's about playing harder and wanting it more than your opponent - not out thinking or knowing your assignments better. It's about wanting it more and playing harder and nastier.
 
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#89
#89
I have sat here ever since Saturday and read some bad things about our coach some deserved I guess. what bothers me is 3 passes were thrown into coverage and intercepted did cbj call those plays? no I don't think so those were dormanys fault but cbj gets the blame here I know bad play calling was called during the game but its also the players need to think not to throw into double and some times triple coverage. I do blame cbj for leaving dormandy in the game he has thrown into coverage in every game he has started. nuff said
 
#90
#90
jakez4ut said:
Agree. He makes it very hard to continue to hope he gets it...I think a lot of people want him to... And many now think he probably never will.

And I say that... And watch.. We'll beat ga... And hope lives...lol

I'm not opposed to that btw...😁
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We'll beat ga, lose to SC and vandy. Jones wins enough to hang around
 
#91
#91
joevol320 said:
Jones wins enough to hang around
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Well I thought he do that anyway. Not that it excuses yesterday. I've said all year 7-5 will get him another year. Despite all that's been posted by me and others...I still think that to be the case...

That said.. Losing winnable big games will not help his cause. Losing to Vandy or usce or ky could be game changers.
 
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#92
#92
jakez4ut said:
Its hard because all of season... Most had us in that 7/8 win prediction.

And that put the Florida game as one of those games we would likely lose.

Then you see the game. And it has gone from a game you thought you might lose to a game you most certainly should have won.

It doesn't carry the same weight to say "we were predicted to lose" as "we should've won" once the game played out.... And call it a wash.
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I can't remember a more frustrating game, but our second half play on both sides of the field gave me great hope for the rest of the year. I think that's what makes this loss all the more painful.
We were the better team despite the play calling, and the final score. You can knock play calling, especially in the red zone, but I do think Butch should be commended on the way this and previous teams have responded under pressure.

As to the comment of a lack of depth and development, how many starters were we down for this game? Playmakers have definitely stepped up...but it's silly to not recognize that losing all SEC caliber players has no effect on wins and losses. I'm not saying Butch has earned another year, but I'm not willing to deny him the right to earn the chance to prove he does.
 
#96
#96
Duckcrazed said:
We lose to SC AND Vandy again and I'm on the fire his ass train.
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No one knows what Currie thinks. I'm betting he doesn't want to fire him... Right now/this year.

His track record says he might though.... If the pendulum swings so far in one direction it's not going to look like an ad making a knee jerk reaction in year one.
 
#97
#97
knoxvol16 said:
Okay, I'll jump in . . . I feel that I need to do so after some of my other posts. Look, I really like Butch, and I sincerely appreciate his rebuilding of our fallen program. He's run a clean program, APR is up, and he's recruited well.

However, I think he's peaked in his abilities here. He does make some "head scratching" decisions during game time, and I still can't defend how you can go three years with an underdeveloped o-line and no QB coach. I think he's holding on to a recipe that won him championships at Cinci, but simply won't wash in the larger conferences---not with the talent that resides across the rosters in the SEC.

Honestly, I think Butch would clean up in the Big10 or Mountain West. I just don't think he's shown that he can consistently take UT to Atlanta, not to mention a playoff. I hate it, because I wanted him to succeed here.

I guess we'll see how the rest of this season goes . . . I initially assumed this was a 7 win year, but deep inside I wanted more. After what I've seen in these first three games, I'm now concerned that we might only see 6 wins.
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This sums it up nicely ^
 
#98
#98
I keep reading the "he's a great recruiter" argument. And yet we have no depth (see the LB and DL rotation). So the popular argument is that this staff is not developing the talent. I want to be careful how I say as not to come off against our players - definitely not the intention. I couldn't care less how many stars they have on a website at 17 years old. Let's see what they do when get here. That said, my point is maybe they just aren't as good at evaluating talent. Everyone agrees 4 and 5* busts exist. Let's focus on the 4* since 5'a are far and few between. Do we need to consider that the 4*'s we land are because it was a borderline 4* the competition just wasn't pushing that hard on because their evaluation showed some potential "bust" factor? TN is famous for thinking an instate or legacy 4* is somehow better because there is an emotional tie there. Coaches lost to a gators team that would have been beaten badly by Vandy, SC, KY, or GA no question. I contradict myself saying it's the coaches not the players and yes I do blame coaching 100% for that disaster. I just think the brakes need a little pumping on the recruiting talk. It's year 5 and how many players do we have that would start at GA, LSU, SC, etc? Maybe 3 of 22?

Random thought not to be taken out of context. Coach Botch lost the game not the players/talent. I just don't think the cupboard is necessarily stacked if you can only point to 3(ish) guys that would start at another SEC school (less injuries).
 
#99
#99
Butch isn't a bad HC, he's just not elite and belongs outside of the power 5 conferences. If he gets let go he will land on his feet and do well, of that I'm certain.
 
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