Honest and Fair Discussion

#1
Skizer41

Skizer41

The Volunteer Club (Chattanooga Captain)
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Oct 16, 2016
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#1
Notice I said discussion. I know we are all unhappy about the Florida game but making inflammatory comments and screaming doesn't mean your point is valid. So....

Before I ask my question I'll state that I've have always been a supporter of CBJ. I've met him several times and like him as a person. I think he has passion for the game and our program. I don't feel that I'm a sunshine pumper and defend him on every bad decision he makes. And being 100% honest he's made some really bad ones and he's made quite a few. And some on here feel he's made enough to be sent packing. I'm not even going to pretend or guess what SHOULD happen. It could go either way. I agree with Rucker. CBJ has gotten us out of the ditch and going down the road again in the overall sense of the program (recruiting, depth, grades, players moving on to the NFL). The question is can he keep from putting it back in the ditch? We may be able to attract a coach that can get us over the hump or changing coaches could cause us to hit a reset button of sorts and have to rebuild. I don't want to start a rebuild but I also want to get over the hump.

One thing that has been bugging me all day is we have the talent. Yet we can't beat Florida while they have 10 players suspended. Our players almost one that game in spite of their coaching. They almost did it. And I think that is becoming a recurring thing. If we are being truthful we have won a lot of games lately in spite of coaching. In Appy St., Georgia, Georgia Tech the ball bounced our way and we won. This one we didn't. But we were out coached in several games.

Now I'm not saying fire CBJ. I'll still be there Saturday cheering on our Vols because I feel it's the right thing to do. Our kids deserve it. I would just like to have an honest discussion. If you agree with me great, if not I would like to hear your opinion of where you think our program is headed.

Go Vols!
 
#2
#2
Butch seems like a nice enough guy. He's a decent enough recruiter. I just don't think he's a very good HC.
 
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#5
#5
The man can't coach the basics of situational football.

We've known this for At least 3-4 years.

We keep saying he's learning, and will correct his in game mistakes.

He hasn't learned, and in fact, may be getting worse.

It's year 5.

How can we keep him at this point? I can't make an argument in his defense.
 
#6
#6
I agree with you Yankee. I agree with those that knock him by saying he wants to control everything and won't let his coaches run their system. I would love to see what would happen if he was the CEO and let the coaches handle their own business.
 
#7
#7
I'd wager that CBJ would make a fantastic AD somewhere or even a good program assistant of some sorts. A recruiting coordinator or something along those lines he'd do very well at. But a game day coach he's just not. It's not an attack or personal insult but he just can't coach fundamental football.
 
#8
#8
I've been off the Butch wagon for a while. I respect him as a person but I think this job is bigger than he can handle at this point in his career. I can't remember what the last straw was but it's just become more clear that his job was to get us "out of the ditch" as you say. I don't disagree with anyone that he's done just that. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's the one to take us to the top. And to answer your question, if he's retained too long then he will indeed put us back "in the ditch". To what degree is the next question.
 
#9
#9
The Georgia game is huge now. I want to see that one before I completely lose hope for Jones. ... and we have played Georgia very well under Butch.
 
#10
#10
He has proven time and time again throughout his body of work that he is not capable of coaching at this level. Tennessee is a Tier 1 school that any coach would be happy to have this team. We need to go hire a hotshot coach and win ballgames. I'm done with the memes and mediocre coaching.
 
#11
#11
Volsick said:
He has proven time and time again throughout his body of work that he is not capable of coaching at this level. Tennessee is a Tier 1 school that any coach would be happy to have this team. We need to go hire a hotshot coach and win ballgames. I'm done with the memes and mediocre coaching.
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Any coach? I don't think we'd be in the positions we've been in and are in now if that were the case...
 
#12
#12
CPVOL said:
I'd wager that CBJ would make a fantastic AD somewhere or even a good program assistant of some sorts. A recruiting coordinator or something along those lines he'd do very well at. But a game day coach he's just not. It's not an attack or personal insult but he just can't coach fundamental football.
Click to expand...

I could easily see an SEC team (maybe even Alabama) putting Butch on staff as a recruiting coordinator if he was fired by Tennessee. Except for the class of 2017, he has done a very good job of keeping the in-state talent at home and there is much more of it on the way in the class of 2019. He would not stay unemployed long.
 
#13
#13
Doberman said:
The man can't coach the basics of situational football.

We've known this for At least 3-4 years.

We keep saying he's learning, and will correct his in game mistakes.

He hasn't learned, and in fact, may be getting worse.

It's year 5.

How can we keep him at this point? I can't make an argument in his defense.
Click to expand...
Agree. He makes it very hard to continue to hope he gets it...I think a lot of people want him to... And many now think he probably never will.

And I say that... And watch.. We'll beat ga... And hope lives...lol

I'm not opposed to that btw...😁
 
#14
#14
I have been a Butch supporter and would love for him to have a long successful career in Knoxville. I like his passion and he seems to care a great deal about the program. His players appear to really enjoy playing for him and he seems to really care about them. He has brought us back from the depths of hell.

But the number of head scratching decisions and lousy time management have finally gotten me to the point that I don't think he can bring the Vols a championship. I hope I am wrong because I really appreciate what he has done for the program, but the evidence is pretty stacked at this point.

Here's to the Vols balling out the rest of the season and proving me wrong.
 
#15
#15
BowlBrother85 said:
I could easily see an SEC team (maybe even Alabama) putting Butch on staff as a recruiting coordinator if he was fired by Tennessee. Except for the class of 2017, he has done a very good job of keeping the in-state talent at home and there is much more of it on the way in the class of 2019. He would not stay unemployed long.
Click to expand...

I'd hire him as special teams coach even with Saturday's game. Normally very consistent
 
#16
#16
It's been said by many others and myself and I truly don't want to give myself another headache. But I'll give just a few lines of my thought.

The positive:
he's a good guy, good recruiter(but to what extent is unknown given it shouldn't be extremely difficult at UT), he's also got us out of the ditch.

The negative:
Any decent coach shouldn't of had a hard time improving our record given who came before him. The higher talent he recruited has saved us many times. I feel upset thinking about what could have been with our guys who left for the NFL in recent years. He's never shown the kill instinct you see great/ successful coaches have. Against Oklahoma for instance, at the start of the game we dominated. After we got a little lead the usual happened. The game plan totally shifted into prevent. Our defense held on for most the game till they were gased from being on the field too long.

Look at Sabah for instance. It doesn't matter if they are up 40 points and the backups are in. Those backups are out there playing as if they are the team 40 down. Great coaches never let up, and plus these backups need to actually have real game experience, not coming in and handing the ball off.

At the end of the day we've seen year after year of the same nonsense. I could go on for days. Sadly it's continued on like many thought it would, and finally the masses that shut us down for pointing it out are finally realizing.

What it comes down to is are we satisfied with the current level of play, or does TN want to be a contender? That's the choice, and whatever the answer is then the decision should be simple. It's yes or no
 
#17
#17
Butch does somethings very well as a coach. His teams will always play hard. He is a good recruiter. He seems like he does a good job of motivating the team.

But, the one consistent has been his inability to make good decisions at the most critical moments in games. Our offense was really good yesterday in the 2nd half until we got inside the 10. Then we went to crap with the play calling. Butch is the head coach. He has the authority to overrule the oc at any point. This is where he has to say we are going to run the ball here.

He doesn't have a good feel for the game. He does a poor job of time management and situational football. This has been consistent with Butch since day 1.

We are going to have a lot of close games the rest of the way. And, I don't much confidence in Butch when the game is tight.
 
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#19
#19
Doberman said:
The man can't coach the basics of situational football.

We've known this for At least 3-4 years.

We keep saying he's learning, and will correct his in game mistakes.

He hasn't learned, and in fact, may be getting worse.

It's year 5.

How can we keep him at this point? I can't make an argument in his defense.
Click to expand...
No one wants CBJ to fail unless u. Are a troll. The fact of the matter we are a blue blood football program and we have been irrevalate for years. This reminds of professional teams that only want to make money and don't care if the team doesn't make the playoffs or compete for a championship just as long as the books are in the black. Cbj has never been a big game coach since he has been here what makes u think. He is now. John Kelly barriering injury may be the best RB in the SEC and you don't run him on 9 attempts in the red zone. I don't care what u say about CPF and Coach Cut if we are in the red zone that many times 99% we are scoring on all of them. CBJ has proven who he is no in game changes and over thinks things.
 
#20
#20
He's a great guy and great recruiter but isn't quite good enough of a gameday coach for Tennessee.
 
#22
#22
I am sure he is a great person and was hoping he would get better. Now after 4+ years I don't want him to be the coach of our university. I thank him for getting us back to where we are and wish him the best. He needed fired yesterday!
 
#23
#23
Not running Kelly (or not overriding the decision) left me dumbfounded. It was apparent to everyone watching the game except those with control.

Also really bothered about Byrd. Never argued the switch if that's where he was needed but if you're not going to play him, it's not fair to the kid.

I'm not going to sit and rant, never has been my thing. But I am beyond perplexed. As far as the hotshot coach thing, if we do make it change at season's end, I'm just not convinced the hire will please the majority.
LSU, Florida and Oregon all have deep pockets and we see who they each ended up with. Nothing in previous history leads me to believe we would out pay them and that's what it would take to get someone at the top.
I'll be around each Saturday still pulling for the boys.
Go Vols.
 
#24
#24
I definitely fell off the wagon yesterday. Butch would make a great recruiting coordinator and special teams coach but he just doesn't have what it takes on game day.

I've said this in many threads. Ultimately the problem is not Butch, it's the administration. Until they make a SERIOUS, long term commitment (ala Bama, Clemson) to fielding a championship caliber program they might as well keep Butch..
 
#25
#25
chargervol said:
Not running Kelly (or not overriding the decision) left me dumbfounded. It was apparent to everyone watching the game except those with control.

Also really bothered about Byrd. Never argued the switch if that's where he was needed but if you're not going to play him, it's not fair to the kid.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Especially about Byrd. I felt the same way about switching him.... But him being a compete non factor is a total waste.

Especially when you see us struggle at db the way we do.

Kid needs to play. Somewhere, sometime
 
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