Homelessness Causes and Solutions

[Vol8188]

Look at the DSM5 and tell me we aren't digging so deep we might be causing more problems than we had before...

Look at kids that are "diagnosed" with mental health issues such as ADHD that honestly just need to burn off energy. But what's the answer for that mostly?

Medicating the problem instead of looking for holistic remedies like "get the **** out of the house and play".

Regardless, we don't have the facilities or personnel any longer to treat the problems on a large scale.

I agree there’s not only an over medication issue but an over diagnosis issue too (everyone I see has a ptsd diagnosis it seems).

 

[LouderVol]

not sure how to answer. I am mostly in the favor of the status quo, but even a pretty harsh qualification. only when a danger to others. with how bad it is, I see it as a matter of triage, rather than helping an individual.

 

[Vol8188]

I have no ideas why when it comes to true mental illnesses like schizophrenia. Others like depression, bipolar ADHD and similar are in my opinion used as an excuse for bad/irresponsible behavior often by parents for their lack of disciplining their kids. Also because people want a pill to "fix" whatever ails them even though what is causing their problems is their own dumbazzness, laziness or feeling of entitlement.

I disagree with true bipolar disorder. There’s a lot of self diagnosed and over diagnosed bipolar disorder. I had a patient tell me once “I’m bipolar because sometimes I’ll just go off on people!”…no, you’re a b!+##. That’s a different thing.

I have an example of BPD earlier. The patient who looks like they’re on meth or crack. Won’t stop talking. Hasn’t sleep in multiple days (typically 3 hours or less each day), yet looks like they don’t miss that sleep.

It’s a wild thing when you see it. They’ll have 3 dollars in their bank account and tell me how they’re about to be the greatest real estate investor of all time

 

[LouderVol]

Maybe I'm a pessimist when it comes to this topic because my wife has worked for three non-profits, but I think a growing problem is some of the non-profits themselves. Maybe there is an official name for them, but I call them non-profit conglomerates.

These groups have more executives and directors and back-end staff than direct support staff, and therefore their overheads are huge. My wife and her team were working with victims, holding masters degrees, and making $40k while they had three or four levels of management and directors above them making more than six figures, only applying for grants and attending meetings.

I think I saw a veterans housing facility here in Knoxville being built for $15m in grant money and donations, but has 32 1-br apartment units. Almost half a million per unit. AND the land was donated by the county.

this is pretty normal, sadly.

construction costs have skyrocketed. and a 1 bedroom unit is the least efficient/most expensive to build per sqft. especially if every unit has a bathroom and kitchen. the smaller the unit the more it costs to build per sqft.

and with any type of aid based "NGO" there is still way too much government, and liability becomes a MAJOR factor to drive up costs and timelines. you aren't getting John Smith and his cousin to come frame these jobs.

even with the donated land, its still not a "free" process. working out the contracts with the county or whoever, still takes a lot of lawyer time. if you are coordinating between various different NGOs, its probably 1 NGO acquires the land/gets government approvals, 1 NGO builds, 1 NGO will run it, 1 NGO finds people to place in it. each interaction requires some form of contract, with lawyers involved at every step. and depending on the local AHJ it may not follow the typical building process if its government/aid based.

my firm has done some of this work and our contracts/line of ownership and who we answer to is insanely complicated. its not uncommon for us to have 2/3 months to get the whole building designed, but then have 1 to 2 years waiting for all the various approvals. and its not like they are actually sitting down to do a full review each time it moves up the chain. it just sits on their desk.

 

[KB5252]

There are a lot of variables and the way written in uncomfortable committing to a choice. If you give me I'd be most comfortable with status quo with some caveats

 

[Vol8188]

There are a lot of variables and the way written in uncomfortable committing to a choice. If you give me I'd be most comfortable with status quo with some caveats

What caveats if you don’t mind?

 

[KB5252]

What caveats if you don’t mind?

I think we need to do a better job of helping people that aren't capable of making sound decisions for themselves. And protecting the public from those people who are serial self care neglect cases.

It's a really fine line between personal liberty and protecting the public. Id lean further towards personal liberty while attempting to protect the public by reasonable means.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

One sad thing I’ve seen more than I wish I have, is severely autistic males, living with single moms who can’t control them, and eventually have to get them placed into a home.

That can’t be an easy decision for any parent to make.

We need to figure out why autism is up 1000 fold in my lifetime. Yes, i know that its a broad spectrum and now includes a variety of different mental issues. The bottom line is that regardless the actual % of kids with it is likely still 100x or more how many had the same mental illnesses 40 years ago when I was 8 years old. Something is causing all these birth defects, which is what I believe they are in most cases. Its either genetics from the parents have changed majorly (not likely IMO) the environment the parents have lived their lives in and breathed, eaten and drank or meds THEY have taken....or its those same environmental factor(s) acting on the child itself very quickly in their 1st year or three of life. Could be the water, pesticides, forever chemicals, microplastics, vaccines,birth control... it could actually be just about anything. But we need to figure out whatever the Hell it is. Our government right now is paying millions of dollars in grants to find out which color of dogs like cocaine the most...what kind of cats are most interested in homosexuality and trans issues, how to save the west african barking spotted newt....but how many universities are actually trying to cure autism spectrum issues or more importantly figure out whats causing it? It should be damn near all of them with a med school and biology lab etc. I mean that. We waste billions of dollars in grants on the stupidest crap you could make up in a joke. Seriously.

We need to be throwing a big % of research dollars at mental illness.

 

[Vol423]

I have no ideas why when it comes to true mental illnesses like schizophrenia. Others like depression, bipolar ADHD and similar are in my opinion used as an excuse for bad/irresponsible behavior often by parents for their lack of disciplining their kids. Also because people want a pill to "fix" whatever ails them even though what is causing their problems is their own dumbazzness, laziness or feeling of entitlement.

Bipolar disorder is every bit as real as schizophrenia. It is not just an excuse for bad/irresponsible behavior. I am glad that you apparently have never had exposure to it. It isn't pleasant, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[LouderVol]

We need to figure out why autism is up 1000 fold in my lifetime. Yes, i know that its a broad spectrum and now includes a variety of different mental issues. The bottom line is that regardless the actual % of kids with it is likely still 100x or more how many had the same mental illnesses 40 years ago when I was 8 years old. Something is causing all these birth defects, which is what I believe they are in most cases. Its either genetics from the parents have changed majorly (not likely IMO) the environment the parents have lived their lives in and breathed, eaten and drank or meds THEY have taken....or its those same environmental factor(s) acting on the child itself very quickly in their 1st year or three of life. Could be the water, pesticides, forever chemicals, microplastics, vaccines,birth control... it could actually be just about anything. But we need to figure out whatever the Hell it is. Our government right now is paying millions of dollars in grants to find out which color of dogs like cocaine the most...what kind of cats are most interested in homosexuality and trans issues, how to save the west african barking spotted newt....but how many universities are actually trying to cure autism spectrum issues or more importantly figure out whats causing it? It should be damn near all of them with a med school and biology lab etc. I mean that. We waste billions of dollars in grants on the stupidest crap you could make up in a joke. Seriously.

We need to be throwing a big % of research dollars at mental illness.

a lot of it is just getting recognized as a disorder. previously it was just the way people were and there was no label to distinguish someone slightly on the spectrum from a "normal" person.

also, remember statistics. the spectrum gets pretty broad now, and parents don't want to handle the minor issues anymore.

I think there is a lot that can be "managed" with lifestyle and upraising, but that management never happens and the issues get worse than they would have in the past.

 

[hog88]

Bipolar disorder is every bit as real as schizophrenia. It is not just an excuse for bad/irresponsible behavior. I am glad that you apparently have never had exposure to it. It isn't pleasant, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

My only experience with BiPolar is an ex neighbor who used her "diagnosis" as an excuse for a whole bunch of bad decisions.

 

[Vol423]

My only experience with BiPolar is an ex neighbor who used her "diagnosis" as an excuse for a whole bunch of bad decisions.

I have a sister-in-law that has bipolar disorder. She had her first severe bipolar episode about a year after giving birth to my second niece. Apparently the hormone surges from pregnancy and child birth are a common trigger for bipolar disorder in young women.

 

[norrislakevol]

While helpful, I think we need more. I think we need to have career paths/work for them as well. The sad truth is that not everyone can take care of themselves and need their life managed.

Absolutely. Same with people getting out of prison.

 

[just bob]

My only experience with BiPolar is an ex neighbor who used her "diagnosis" as an excuse for a whole bunch of bad decisions.

Which is worse? Using bipolar as an excuse or a star sign?

 

[Vol8188]

We need to figure out why autism is up 1000 fold in my lifetime. Yes, i know that its a broad spectrum and now includes a variety of different mental issues. The bottom line is that regardless the actual % of kids with it is likely still 100x or more how many had the same mental illnesses 40 years ago when I was 8 years old. Something is causing all these birth defects, which is what I believe they are in most cases. Its either genetics from the parents have changed majorly (not likely IMO) the environment the parents have lived their lives in and breathed, eaten and drank or meds THEY have taken....or its those same environmental factor(s) acting on the child itself very quickly in their 1st year or three of life. Could be the water, pesticides, forever chemicals, microplastics, vaccines,birth control... it could actually be just about anything. But we need to figure out whatever the Hell it is. Our government right now is paying millions of dollars in grants to find out which color of dogs like cocaine the most...what kind of cats are most interested in homosexuality and trans issues, how to save the west african barking spotted newt....but how many universities are actually trying to cure autism spectrum issues or more importantly figure out whats causing it? It should be damn near all of them with a med school and biology lab etc. I mean that. We waste billions of dollars in grants on the stupidest crap you could make up in a joke. Seriously.

We need to be throwing a big % of research dollars at mental illness.

Look into paternal age and autism. Seems to be the leading predictor. And paternal age has for sure increased over the last 40 years

 

[LouderVol]

I have a sister-in-law that has bipolar disorder. She had her first severe bipolar episode about a year after giving birth to my second niece. Apparently the hormone surges from pregnancy and child birth are a common trigger for bipolar disorder in young women.

it also hits men around the age of 25. it can apparently take that long before you show any symptoms. you can go from a-symptomatic to "full blown" in just a few months.

 

[norrislakevol]

Another thing too.....my sister battled mental illness for years, almost 25 years. Symptoms came and went. Generally bipolar and lashing out with some self destructive behavior too. Eventually after the bipolar and lashing out stopped all together it seemed like, she developed bad migraines. Eventually saw a neurologist that hooked her up to a machine to monitor her brain. In that short span she had 6 seizures that she never knew she was having. They also found a spot on her brain. That spot matched where she suffered a blow to the head during a wreck...about 25 years ago. She had had this issue this whole time, and was relieved to find out she wasn't crazy, just injured. Doctor gave her something for the seizures so her brain would have a chance to heal. So far, so good, but time will tell. How many other mentally ill people are out there because they suffered a blow to the head and have CTE? When the bodies computer gets smashed, funny things can happen. I've been telling people since then when they complain of someone they know acting crazy to see if they ever suffered a blow to the head. Maybe they just need the right care.

 

[jvol1]

When you say many have jobs that can’t afford housing, it makes me assume you’re calculating this at a rate of 1 income per house. If your income is low enough, you should be living with a roommate or family member.

No, housing isn’t so unaffordable that 20 people together can’t afford a home.

They’ve not thought of my solution because the majority are chasing their next fix or their own delusions.

“Once they’re stable”…..you’re missing the point. If they were stable and willing to accept treatment, they’d be a lot less likely to be on the street in the first place.

I'm saying wages at this point have lagged inflation in housing to a point that not enough families will be able to pursue home ownership. Just packing them in like sardines has nothing to do with affordability.

Most schizoid go through periods of lucidity or can be treated to get there. So treating someone on the street can stabilize them so that they could be off the street until they fall back again because they dont get proper support after hospitalization.

 

[jvol1]

Our posters who are in healthcare are invited to correct my post.

McRib had a mandatory psyche rotation in her rounds as a therapy intern. The unsolved challenge of stabilizing the mentally ill is that once their meds are dialed in, they feel so normal many stop taking the medicine. And then they relapse back to their unmedicated psychosis which they try to manage with street drugs. Unless they have a family member dedicated to the constant battle of giving and verifying the meds are taken, the relapse rate is daunting.

Of the many who can reach a point of stabilization, very few stay there.

(Her experience was 30 years ago so meds and protocols may have improved since then).

The odds could be improved if more support were available after treatment. Our current system tends to return them to the street for an instant relapse.

 

[Vol8188]

I'm saying wages at this point have lagged inflation in housing to a point that not enough families will be able to pursue home ownership. Just packing them in like sardines has nothing to do with affordability.

Most schizoid go through periods of lucidity or can be treated to get there. So treating someone on the street can stabilize them so that they could be off the street until they fall back again because they dont get proper support after hospitalization.

The number of families who can or will pursue home ownership isn’t a question of any real importance.

You kinda hit on the problem without openly stating it though for inflation in housing. “Families”….those aren’t a thing anymore. Now that mom and dad have separate homes and each lives in a larger home alone than they did together 50 years ago, yes that causes inflation. Along with the basic fact that most of the data on this issue people use the 50s and 60s as a starting point when a large number of people lived in homes they bought themselves. Then you add in a/c and other luxuries that weren’t always standard.

Schizoid is not the same as schizophrenia. Schizoids are just people with lack of friendships and lack of expressed emotion. It’s a personality trait more so than a medical disorder.

When you say “because they don’t get proper support after hospitalization” you seem to be missing the point entirely. For many of these people, continual medical care in an institution or possibly assisted living is the only way you’re going to keep them halfway functional.

 

[McDad]

The odds could be improved if more support were available after treatment. Our current system tends to return them to the street for an instant relapse.

That has not been my wife's 1st hand experience as a health care employee at all.

 

[Vol8188]

The odds could be improved if more support were available after treatment. Our current system tends to return them to the street for an instant relapse.

What support do you believe is specifically lacking?

 

[jvol1]

The number of families who can or will pursue home ownership isn’t a question of any real importance.

You kinda hit on the problem without openly stating it though for inflation in housing. “Families”….those aren’t a thing anymore. Now that mom and dad have separate homes and each lives in a larger home alone than they did together 50 years ago, yes that causes inflation. Along with the basic fact that most of the data on this issue people use the 50s and 60s as a starting point when a large number of people lived in homes they bought themselves. Then you add in a/c and other luxuries that weren’t always standard.

Schizoid is not the same as schizophrenia. Schizoids are just people with lack of friendships and lack of expressed emotion. It’s a personality trait more so than a medical disorder.

When you say “because they don’t get proper support after hospitalization” you seem to be missing the point entirely. For many of these people, continual medical care in an institution or possibly assisted living is the only way you’re going to keep them halfway functional.

But if families were a thing, housing would still be unaffordable. You're just dodging the point that the root of the problem is bad monetary policy since Obama. Saying theres no problem and that people should suffer more or that you dont care about other people's problems doesnt really address the issue.

People with chronic mental illness should be in a place that treats those problems. Many can function on their own and just suffer periodic episodes that require treatment when they face certain stresses. Perhaps as portrayed in a beautiful.mind.

 

[jvol1]

That has not been my wife's 1st hand experience as a health care employee at all.

So they would be better off with less help?

 

[hog88]

But if families were a thing, housing would still be unaffordable. You're just dodging the point that the root of the problem is bad monetary policy since Obama. Saying theres no problem and that people should suffer more or that you dont care about other people's problems doesnt really address the issue.

People with chronic mental illness should be in a place that treats those problems. Many can function on their own and just suffer periodic episodes that require treatment when they face certain stresses. Perhaps as portrayed in a beautiful.mind.

Our bad monetary policy started in 1913, well before Obama was a gleam in his daddies eye.