History tells us to stick with Fulmer.

[etvolsfan]

Mark my words... if Fulmer is kept on at UT he will never beat Florida or Alabama again. Never!

 

[BigPapaVol]

Firing a coach for having two losing seasons in 16 years is for idiots.

he hasn't had 2 losing seasons that I know of.

The fact that you're considering this one a foregone conclusion tells me quite a bit about where you think the program is, given the rest of our schedule.

 

[kev20]

Why does not have an avatar make you a "newbie"?

yeah, look at the douche that has one of the most overrated qbs in the NFL in his sig.

 

[WA_Vol]

For example:

From 1998-2004, Joe Paterno was 40-39 with no conference titles and two bowl wins. In 2005, he roared back to an 11-1 record and a Big 10 Championship. Since, then he's 29-9 and possibly playing for a national title this year.

From 1979-1985, Bo Schembechler was 60-23 with one Big 10 Title. He went on to lead the Wolverines to a 38-10 record with three Conference Titles over the last four years of his career at Michigan.

After winning four national titles, the great Bear Bryant posted a 28-20 record with three straight bowl losses from 1967-1970. He went on to win three more national titles and nine SEC titles from 1971-1982.

We're going through a little bit of a rough patch right now, but we've got the right staff in place to see us through it. If we're not careful, we'll learn a lesson Michigan is learning now the hard way. Stability is very important in college football.

What about the history of Florida after they fired Zook and hired Urban Meyer and won an NC? The history of LSU after they fired DiNardo and hired Saban and won an NC? The history of Alabama after they fired Shula and hired Nick Saban and are currently undefeated?

 

[VolsSportsFan]

If this had been the only year things were going badly I might agree with the OP.
However things have been going badly for quite a while now. The only one or 2 mistakes away from a win crap that fulmer spews out every week is getting old. People make mistakes its understandable. However when the same mistakes keep getting repeated over and over again thats not. There is a complete lack of discipline on this team. That goes all the way to the top.

Not to mention there's 2 sides to that point. We were also 1 or 2 mistakes from being 6-6 last year too. In 2004 were were 1 or 2 mistakes from not winning the East.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

What about the history of Florida after they fired Zook and hired Urban Meyer and won an NC? The history of LSU after they fired DiNardo and hired Saban and won an NC? The history of Alabama after they fired Shula and hired Nick Saban and are currently undefeated?

Ohio St. fires Cooper and wins an NC not long after.

 

[VolDad]

I'm not sure what you mean about no use debating with me. The fact that I posted at all shows that I want to discuss the issue. Now, if you're expecting me to just cow tow to your point of view because you said so that's one thing. But if you really want to debate, that's another.

Not a single person on here has shown me a single shred of evidence that what is happening at UT is anything more than the normal ups and downs of a big time college football program.

We are on a 9 year drought, going on 10, of 0 Championships, 0 BCS bowls, .678 winning percentage (much worse against our biggest rivals).

Who are all of the "big time college football programs" who have gone through that under a single coach?

 

[midtnvol2]

There is no denying that Coach Fulmer's first nine years at UT were better than his last seven. I personally don't think a 63-27 record with four #1 finishes in the SEC East and three bowl wins is all that bad, but they're definately worse than his 84-17 record with a National Title, two SEC titles and five bowl wins.

However, this is no time to panic and, in my opinion, no time for a coaching change. Set emotion aside and look at numbers. They don't lie. Coach Fulmer's career is following trends established by some of the greatest coaches in College Football history.

For example:

From 1998-2004, Joe Paterno was 40-39 with no conference titles and two bowl wins. In 2005, he roared back to an 11-1 record and a Big 10 Championship. Since, then he's 29-9 and possibly playing for a national title this year.

From 1979-1985, Bo Schembechler was 60-23 with one Big 10 Title. He went on to lead the Wolverines to a 38-10 record with three Conference Titles over the last four years of his career at Michigan.

After winning four national titles, the great Bear Bryant posted a 28-20 record with three straight bowl losses from 1967-1970. He went on to win three more national titles and nine SEC titles from 1971-1982.

We're going through a little bit of a rough patch right now, but we've got the right staff in place to see us through it. If we're not careful, we'll learn a lesson Michigan is learning now the hard way. Stability is very important in college football.

Let me preface this by saying I read many posts here but this is my first post. What I am about to say comes from a phone interview just a few weeks ago from George Plaster, 104.5 The Zone in Nashville, and Dave Hooker of the Knox. News Sentinel. This was the day after Hooker's article about the face to face with Hamilton. After the article was discussed, Plaster asked Hooker if he had anything that he could say off the record? Hooker's response was no to Hamilton, but he did say that the sports office at the Knox. News Sent. has recieved numerous calls from parents of several UT players, which Hooker said he checked out and they were valid, and the parents said that CPF has lost the team, that players did'nt want to play for him, and he was overriding much of his staff. Hooker's example was that O.C. Clawsen wanted to pull Crompton at halftime of the UCLA game and CPF said no. He stated that CPF has been changing plays thru the headset 30% or more thru every game. Some of you in East Tn may be able to varify Hooker's statements. IMO I think that HAmilton knows CPF has lost the team, and that he realizes how much of the coaching water coach Cut actually carried the last few years. Former UT coach Doug Mathews has a show segment every week on 104.5 and even he said that CPF will go if he ever loses the team and it looks like he has.
IMO, Hamilton is trying to figure out how to turn CPF loose that doesn't embarass him, and heals the divide between CPF supporters and non-supporters. To be a good coach you have to have your players be willing to follow you to the gates of hell and fight the devil for you. CPF had that early on, and now he doesn't. For example look at Pat Summit? Does she not have that commitment from her team? We lacked that in men's basketball for years. Look at what 1year makes with Bruce Pearl? Will they follow him? Yes. Aren't most of the team last year the same as the year prior to Pearls arrival? Yes. ESPN said Sat. night against Bama that Saban's players believe in him and his system 100%. You could tell it. This is the "it" factor that Bama coaches the Bear and Stallings had. Is it not what Spurrior and now Meyer has at Florida? CPF has lost "IT". That is just one of many factors that our new coach must posess along with several others. I don't think CPF will be here as coach next year, nor does Hamilton.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

If Fulmer would retire, he would go out a hero and for the most part, no hard feelings. If he fights it to the end, he's asking for legacy problems.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Let me preface this by saying I read many posts here but this is my first post. What I am about to say comes from a phone interview just a few weeks ago from George Plaster, 104.5 The Zone in Nashville, and Dave Hooker of the Knox. News Sentinel. This was the day after Hooker's article about the face to face with Hamilton. After the article was discussed, Plaster asked Hooker if he had anything that he could say off the record? Hooker's response was no to Hamilton, but he did say that the sports office at the Knox. News Sent. has recieved numerous calls from parents of several UT players, which Hooker said he checked out and they were valid, and the parents said that CPF has lost the team, that players did'nt want to play for him, and he was overriding much of his staff. Hooker's example was that O.C. Clawsen wanted to pull Crompton at halftime of the UCLA game and CPF said no. He stated that CPF has been changing plays thru the headset 30% or more thru every game. Some of you in East Tn may be able to varify Hooker's statements. IMO I think that HAmilton knows CPF has lost the team, and that he realizes how much of the coaching water coach Cut actually carried the last few years. Former UT coach Doug Mathews has a show segment every week on 104.5 and even he said that CPF will go if he ever loses the team and it looks like he has.

I had heard this on Plaster's show and this must have been the interview I heard. I knew I heard someone on Plaster saying Clawson had wanted to pull Crompton either during or after the UCLA game and Fulmer overruled him.

Someone on here who was blaming Clawson for Crompton and was asking for proof for Clawson calling for Stephens, this is where I heard it.

 

[TN24]

There is no denying that Coach Fulmer's first nine years at UT were better than his last seven. I personally don't think a 63-27 record with four #1 finishes in the SEC East and three bowl wins is all that bad, but they're definately worse than his 84-17 record with a National Title, two SEC titles and five bowl wins.

However, this is no time to panic and, in my opinion, no time for a coaching change. Set emotion aside and look at numbers. They don't lie. Coach Fulmer's career is following trends established by some of the greatest coaches in College Football history.

For example:

From 1998-2004, Joe Paterno was 40-39 with no conference titles and two bowl wins. In 2005, he roared back to an 11-1 record and a Big 10 Championship. Since, then he's 29-9 and possibly playing for a national title this year.

From 1979-1985, Bo Schembechler was 60-23 with one Big 10 Title. He went on to lead the Wolverines to a 38-10 record with three Conference Titles over the last four years of his career at Michigan.

After winning four national titles, the great Bear Bryant posted a 28-20 record with three straight bowl losses from 1967-1970. He went on to win three more national titles and nine SEC titles from 1971-1982.

We're going through a little bit of a rough patch right now, but we've got the right staff in place to see us through it. If we're not careful, we'll learn a lesson Michigan is learning now the hard way. Stability is very important in college football.

Good post...and in theory well thought out. But problem one is that Fulmer is not the Bear nor is he Joe Pa. This also isn't the Big 10 or the SEC of 40 years ago.

Fulmer is very much a victim of his own success. Spurrier and Phil set the bar pretty darn high for the SEC, the conference powers caught up or in some cases made good hires and have now eclipsed UT.

However the most important facet in Fulmers downfall is this just didn't happen overnight. This is something that has been happening since really 1999. That year UT should have contended for another NC...at the very least they should have been in the mix. I've repeated this and repeated this but UGA vs. UT in 2001 is a microcosm of what UT would become...I can only suggest you go watch that game and if you know anything about the game you'll see what I mean. Coaching ineptness, lack of motivation, lack of preparation, horrible special teams...that game has it all. I officially stepped off the Fulmer band wagon that day. Still in 2001 UT had the chance to compete for a NC...yet we get beat by a backup QB in the SEC title game.

The question is if Fulmer stays...will he replace virtually the entire staff. It's obvious he has no knack for being an OC anymore or that either his hires have been incompetent or he's not letting them do his job...Cutcliffe's return proved that. And defensively...well as great as Chavis's D looks at times, it also looks just as embarassing. And frankly this isn't anything new...Spurrier when at UF routinely ate Chavis's
defense up. The conference has just caught up...and surpassed us.

In reality UT needs to be better prepared offensively and defensively, they need more discipline on and off the field, in most cases they need to be coached better fundamentals, players need to be developed, special teams needs to be a priority...afterall it is one of the Generals maxims, they need to be in better shape...I could go on. Back to the question...can Fulmer fix all that in one year. Nope. It's taken alot of years for us to get here and unless someone gives Phil a brain transplant he ain't going to change overnight. This staff reeks of staleness, has no ability to make game time adjustments, in many cases is lazy when it comes to recrutiing as Fulmer almost always has to close the deal and has a leader that refuses to change with the times. Stability is one thing but continuing to surround yourself with mediocre coaching is Fulmers ultimate downfall. It's his ship, he runs it and he's run it into the ground. Things are not going to get better.

To sum it up...what would Saban have done with this team? Ask yourself. He's winning with Freshman, Sophs and Shulas recruits...it took him one year to get his system in place and look what he is doing. Frankly with the talent that UT has right now and with a good coach we're probably looking at 7-1...and maybe, just maybe 8-0.

Sorry but it's time, has been time for awhile. And now more so than ever because the one thing that Fulmer has always had is the average fan on his side. Fan apathy has taken over...what happened at Neyland against the Tide is reason enough to get rid of Phil at this point. Even in Joe Pa's or Bears lean years you didn't see they're stadiums being taken over by the visitors...even and Michigan this year the visitors aren't invading the Big House. I've been a fan and going to games for 35 years and have never, ever seen anything like that. Maybe when we've taken over Vandy...but at Neyland...never! Fulmer should be ashamed, Hamilton should be ashamed and the boosters and powers that be should be ashamed.

Enough is enough.

Enough is enough.

 

[justingroves]

I'm not sure what you mean about no use debating with me. The fact that I posted at all shows that I want to discuss the issue. Now, if you're expecting me to just cow tow to your point of view because you said so that's one thing. But if you really want to debate, that's another.

Not a single person on here has shown me a single shred of evidence that what is happening at UT is anything more than the normal ups and downs of a big time college football program.

The "ups" routinely come after replacing the coach that led them to the "downs".

 

[hatvol96]

We are on a 9 year drought, going on 10, of 0 Championships, 0 BCS bowls, .678 winning percentage (much worse against our biggest rivals).

Who are all of the "big time college football programs" who have gone through that under a single coach?

Don't bother asking the question. The answer is nobody. Fulmerites just like to act as if the problems just began in 2005 and ignore that question.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Vercingetorix]

I replace or repair what's broken. We're not a broken program. We're experiencing the general ups and downs of a big time college football program.

The flaw with this argument is that it assumes that all other things outside the program have remained the same. They haven't. That's why you can draw such a clean line of demarcation between the two halves of Fulmer's career. It's not a coincidence that the "down" part of our ups and downs began at the same time that Georgia, Auburn, LSU, etc., dramatically upgraded their programs.

SEC football is pretty close to a zero-sum game. If other programs are getting better, it has to be at somebody else's expense. Fulmer has been unable to prevent it from being at ours.

 

[cd12]

Good post...and in theory well thought out. But problem one is that Fulmer is not the Bear nor is he Joe Pa. This also isn't the Big 10 or the SEC of 40 years ago.

Fulmer is very much a victim of his own success. Spurrier and Phil set the bar pretty darn high for the SEC, the conference powers caught up or in some cases made good hires and have now eclipsed UT.

However the most important facet in Fulmers downfall is this just didn't happen overnight. This is something that has been happening since really 1999. That year UT should have contended for another NC...at the very least they should have been in the mix. I've repeated this and repeated this but UGA vs. UT in 2001 is a microcosm of what UT would become...I can only suggest you go watch that game and if you know anything about the game you'll see what I mean. Coaching ineptness, lack of motivation, lack of preparation, horrible special teams...that game has it all. I officially stepped off the Fulmer band wagon that day. Still in 2001 UT had the chance to compete for a NC...yet we get beat by a backup QB in the SEC title game.

The question is if Fulmer stays...will he replace virtually the entire staff. It's obvious he has no knack for being an OC anymore or that either his hires have been incompetent or he's not letting them do his job...Cutcliffe's return proved that. And defensively...well as great as Chavis's D looks at times, it also looks just as embarassing. And frankly this isn't anything new...Spurrier when at UF routinely ate Chavis's
defense up. The conference has just caught up...and surpassed us.

In reality UT needs to be better prepared offensively and defensively, they need more discipline on and off the field, in most cases they need to be coached better fundamentals, players need to be developed, special teams needs to be a priority...afterall it is one of the Generals maxims, they need to be in better shape...I could go on. Back to the question...can Fulmer fix all that in one year. Nope. It's taken alot of years for us to get here and unless someone gives Phil a brain transplant he ain't going to change overnight. This staff reeks of staleness, has no ability to make game time adjustments, in many cases is lazy when it comes to recrutiing as Fulmer almost always has to close the deal and has a leader that refuses to change with the times. Stability is one thing but continuing to surround yourself with mediocre coaching is Fulmers ultimate downfall. It's his ship, he runs it and he's run it into the ground. Things are not going to get better.

To sum it up...what would Saban have done with this team? Ask yourself. He's winning with Freshman, Sophs and Shulas recruits...it took him one year to get his system in place and look what he is doing. Frankly with the talent that UT has right now and with a good coach we're probably looking at 7-1...and maybe, just maybe 8-0.

Sorry but it's time, has been time for awhile. And now more so than ever because the one thing that Fulmer has always had is the average fan on his side. Fan apathy has taken over...what happened at Neyland against the Tide is reason enough to get rid of Phil at this point. Even in Joe Pa's or Bears lean years you didn't see they're stadiums being taken over by the visitors...even and Michigan this year the visitors aren't invading the Big House. I've been a fan and going to games for 35 years and have never, ever seen anything like that. Maybe when we've taken over Vandy...but at Neyland...never! Fulmer should be ashamed, Hamilton should be ashamed and the boosters and powers that be should be ashamed.

Enough is enough.

Enough is enough.

Nice post 24....I will add that even St David's offense had trouble adjusting. We were terrible in the 2nd half of most games.

 

[chavisut]

Keeping a coach who has 2 losing seasons sandwiched in between two average seasons is for idiots.

 

[Sudden Impact]

There is no denying that Coach Fulmer's first nine years at UT were better than his last seven. I personally don't think a 63-27 record with four #1 finishes in the SEC East and three bowl wins is all that bad, but they're definately worse than his 84-17 record with a National Title, two SEC titles and five bowl wins.

However, this is no time to panic and, in my opinion, no time for a coaching change. Set emotion aside and look at numbers. They don't lie. Coach Fulmer's career is following trends established by some of the greatest coaches in College Football history.

For example:

From 1998-2004, Joe Paterno was 40-39 with no conference titles and two bowl wins. In 2005, he roared back to an 11-1 record and a Big 10 Championship. Since, then he's 29-9 and possibly playing for a national title this year.

From 1979-1985, Bo Schembechler was 60-23 with one Big 10 Title. He went on to lead the Wolverines to a 38-10 record with three Conference Titles over the last four years of his career at Michigan.

After winning four national titles, the great Bear Bryant posted a 28-20 record with three straight bowl losses from 1967-1970. He went on to win three more national titles and nine SEC titles from 1971-1982.

We're going through a little bit of a rough patch right now, but we've got the right staff in place to see us through it. If we're not careful, we'll learn a lesson Michigan is learning now the hard way. Stability is very important in college football.

Is that you Phil or is that you Mike?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Can we fire "History?"

 

[VolsSportsFan]

The more I think about it, the dumber this whole thread sounds. You've pretty much got JoePa and The Bear as your "evidence" to keep Fulmer. A guy that's been dead over 25 years, and another guy that's by far the exception to the rule, not to mention someone who learned to let his coaches actually coach.

Your "evidence" is prety laughable.

 

[AllVols]

History says dont scrap the side of an iceberg.

:lolabove: Ahaha, now that's funny. I was going to comment. but that says it all.

 

[dimera23]

I think my Law Degree gives me ample room to discuss things of this nature with you.

You think so? Really? A law degree? What's that prove....you have no soul?

C'mon....you have to love lawyer jokes!

 

[dimera23]

It's not just "losing seasons". It's for not meeting expectations, which is considered failure.

2002, 2005, and 2008 all apply. In fact by that measure 1999 applies. We should have at least repeated as SEC Champions.

You act like winning the SEC is easy.

 

[kev20]

The more I think about it, the dumber this whole thread sounds. You've pretty much got JoePa and The Bear as your "evidence" to keep Fulmer. A guy that's been dead over 25 years, and another guy that's by far the exception to the rule, not to mention someone who learned to let his coaches actually coach.

Your "evidence" is prety laughable.

which is which?

 

[dimera23]

Let me preface this by saying I read many posts here but this is my first post. What I am about to say comes from a phone interview just a few weeks ago from George Plaster, 104.5 The Zone in Nashville, and Dave Hooker of the Knox. News Sentinel. This was the day after Hooker's article about the face to face with Hamilton. After the article was discussed, Plaster asked Hooker if he had anything that he could say off the record? Hooker's response was no to Hamilton, but he did say that the sports office at the Knox. News Sent. has recieved numerous calls from parents of several UT players, which Hooker said he checked out and they were valid, and the parents said that CPF has lost the team, that players did'nt want to play for him, and he was overriding much of his staff. Hooker's example was that O.C. Clawsen wanted to pull Crompton at halftime of the UCLA game and CPF said no. He stated that CPF has been changing plays thru the headset 30% or more thru every game. Some of you in East Tn may be able to varify Hooker's statements. IMO I think that HAmilton knows CPF has lost the team, and that he realizes how much of the coaching water coach Cut actually carried the last few years. Former UT coach Doug Mathews has a show segment every week on 104.5 and even he said that CPF will go if he ever loses the team and it looks like he has.
IMO, Hamilton is trying to figure out how to turn CPF loose that doesn't embarass him, and heals the divide between CPF supporters and non-supporters. To be a good coach you have to have your players be willing to follow you to the gates of hell and fight the devil for you. CPF had that early on, and now he doesn't. For example look at Pat Summit? Does she not have that commitment from her team? We lacked that in men's basketball for years. Look at what 1year makes with Bruce Pearl? Will they follow him? Yes. Aren't most of the team last year the same as the year prior to Pearls arrival? Yes. ESPN said Sat. night against Bama that Saban's players believe in him and his system 100%. You could tell it. This is the "it" factor that Bama coaches the Bear and Stallings had. Is it not what Spurrior and now Meyer has at Florida? CPF has lost "IT". That is just one of many factors that our new coach must posess along with several others. I don't think CPF will be here as coach next year, nor does Hamilton.

IF (and that's a big if) it were true that Coach Fulmer has "lost" the team, the that would justify his removal in my opinion. If I were Mike Hamilton in that situation, I would offer him the opportunity to retire before firing him though.

Coach Fulmer's strength as a head coach is his ability to recruit great student athletes, earn their trust and initiate them into the UT Football way of life.

I haven't heard anything to indicate (other than this post) that Coach Fulmer has "lost" the team.

 

[kev20]

IF (and that's a big if) it were true that Coach Fulmer has "lost" the team, the that would justify his removal in my opinion. If I were Mike Hamilton in that situation, I would offer him the opportunity to retire before firing him though.

Coach Fulmer's strength as a head coach is his ability to recruit great student athletes, earn their trust and initiate them into the UT Football way of life.

I haven't heard anything to indicate (other than this post) that Coach Fulmer has "lost" the team.

apparently you are blind as well.