Heupel vs Fulmer

#52
#52
loosecannon said:
Phil was an unbelievable recruiter. His squads were loaded with talent. His coaching and drive, he would fall asleep in meetings, declined greatly but recruiting was good all the way through.
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Phis did have good recruiting years and that was part of his demise when we seem to still lose at least 1 game and knock us out of the NC. And also losing to Florida/Bama on a regular basis.
 
#55
#55
Fulmer took over for a good coach who had won a national title. Heupel took over after 3 consecutive guys who will be lucky to ever head coach a power 5 conference program again.

After last year’s 11-2, Heupel is my guy. The only thing that would turn me against him (in the next 2 years) is arrests or probation. After the two decades we’ve been through, he deserves our full support with a 5-2 record. I’ll still be happy with 8–4 at the end of the season. 7-5 and my attitude will be that we should have done better. 9-3 or 10-2 will be a great year.

If we went 12-0 or 11-1, I would be calling Heupel the GOAT. That was always an extremely long shot.
 
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#56
#56
volfeeva said:
Phis did have good recruiting years and that was part of his demise when we seem to still lose at least 1 game and knock us out of the NC. And also losing to Florida/Bama on a regular basis.
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One thing Fulmer did do was beat Bama on a regular basis. They were going through coaches during that time and weren't very good in the mid to late 90's, into the early 2000's.. The league was weak back then compared to now. Much easier path..
 
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#57
#57
I am not calling for CJH's head but there are few things that if he doesn't change, may potentially cost his job. They are also the traits that set him apart from elite level coaches.
I will also say he's still miles ahead and 10x better than the 4 fools we had before him, and he's still an inexperienced head coach, and I really like him. But as CEO of the football team, it's more about just Xs/Os, it's about developing the organization in all fronts to be in a position to compete and win SEC and get in playoffs every year. This is not an easy job and that's why he's paid $9 mil a year to do it.

1. overly value loyalty, not making hard decisions fast
Martinez should be an obvious and non-controversial one (keeping one obviously incompetent department head for too long). Joe may be the second (value certain attributes over some fundamental flaws). Juries on Banks, Halzle (promoting someone who's close to him but may not be ready for the job) are still out. CJH said many times this football team is a family, it is not. It's an organization whose sole job is to build and equipped to win SEC and make playoffs every year. This requires short-time and long-time planning in all key position groups and risk mitigation. This requires discipline and courage to make tough decisions fast. He has not convinced me he's able to do them yet.

2. stubbornness / hubris
reflects in his in-game decision making and half-time adjustments. Two 4th and 1 in aTM game questionable calls and he even admitted that in post-game conference, but repeat the similar mistakes yesterday. Lining up shotgun on 4th and 1 when o-line is outnumbered and hope team makes play is not a winning strategy. This is inexcusable. This also reflects in his teams not preparing in tough SEC road games (Georgia, SC last year, Florida/Bama this year). With the exception of Georgia, we were talented enough to be in a position to win these games but he went 0/3. In all of these three games, its one of: 1) other teams had a great gameplan / half-time adjustment and we got caught off-guard and not adjust fast 2) not mentally prepared to play in hostile environment (GA/SC, Florida first half, Bama 2nd half). Only bright spot so far was LSU last year which I think is benefited by the bye week and Kelly's poor decision makings in 1st half.

3. some childish behavior that a mature leader doesn't do
Throw bombs in last minute of game leading by 40 points last year against Mizzou that gives enemy unnecessary firepower to revenge, last play in Florida's game that can get your team hurt and suspended, and silent protest when Austin asked about the ref question yesterday. Yes refs suck but this is the life in SEC away games. You cannot say getting shutoff 27-0 is all on ref, and your behavior makes the team think the reason they lost was because of biased zebras. Yes I felt the game was rigged yesterday but you need to mentally prepare your team that fighting biased zebras is part of life in this conference and you need to build a strong lead buffer at any time. Was ref helping us in 1st half? No, but it was the fire and courage and playcalling and team's good execution gave us a 20-7 lead. But when we came out of the locker room at half time thinking we already won this game (some players actually admitted that), we didn't have the fire and willpower to continue expand that lead, and we were not ready for challenges and even more biased calls (which we should all knew would come). You kept saying dont look at score board and it's a 60-minute game and I am sure you say these to your players too but they are not showing that when they hit the field, and your playcalling are not helping them.

Again, CJH has done a pretty amazing job so far and I am fully supportive of him. I am just pointing out a few things that elite coaches wont do. Elite coaches also don't melt and give up 27 straight points with no answer (although under Orange Pants/Brick/Money Bag we probably would have completely given up by mid 3rd quarter and have lost like 20-52. But again CJH is not in the same league with these fools.

Finally on ref: Coach, you fight NOT by silent protesting after the game but be in front of their f--ing ugly faces during the f---king game. Work with your admin and boosters to make them pay the price!
 
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#59
#59
SFBayVol said:
I am not calling for CJH's head but there are few things that if he doesn't change, may potentially cost his job. They are also the traits that set him apart from elite level coaches.
I will also say he's still miles ahead and 10x better than the 4 fools we had before him, and he's still an inexperienced head coach, and I really like him. But as CEO of the football team, it's more about just Xs/Os, it's about developing the organization in all fronts to be in a position to compete and win SEC and get in playoffs every year. This is not an easy job and that's why he's paid $9 mil a year to do it.

1. overly value loyalty, not making hard decisions fast
Martinez should be an obvious and non-controversial one (keeping one obviously incompetent department head for too long). Joe may be the second (value certain attributes over some fundamental flaws). Juries on Banks, Halzle (promoting someone who's close to him but may not be ready for the job) are still out. CJH said many times this football team is a family, it is not. It's an organization whose sole job is to build and equipped to win SEC and make playoffs every year. This requires short-time and long-time planning in all key position groups and risk mitigation. This requires discipline and courage to make tough decisions fast. He has not convinced me he's able to do them yet.

2. stubbornness / hubris
reflects in his in-game decision making and half-time adjustments. Two 4th and 1 in aTM game questionable calls and he even admitted that in post-game conference, but repeat the similar mistakes yesterday. Lining up shotgun on 4th and 1 when o-line is outnumbered and hope team makes play is not a winning strategy. This is inexcusable. This also reflects in his teams not preparing in tough SEC road games (Georgia, SC last year, Florida/Bama this year). With the exception of Georgia, we were talented enough to be in a position to win these games but he went 0/3. In all of these three games, its one of: 1) other teams had a great gameplan / half-time adjustment and we got caught off-guard and not adjust fast 2) not mentally prepared to play in hostile environment (GA/SC, Florida first half, Bama 2nd half). Only bright spot so far was LSU last year which I think is benefited by the bye week and Kelly's poor decision makings in 1st half.

3. some childish behavior that a mature leader doesn't do
Throw bombs in last minute of game leading by 40 points last year against Mizzou that gives enemy unnecessary firepower to revenge, last play in Florida's game that can get your team hurt and suspended, and silent protest when Austin asked about the ref question yesterday. Yes refs suck but this is the life in SEC away games. You cannot say getting shutoff 27-0 is all on ref, and your behavior makes the team think the reason they lost was because of biased zebras. Yes I felt the game was rigged yesterday but you need to mentally prepare your team that fighting biased zebras is part of life in this conference and you need to build a strong lead buffer at any time. Was ref helping us in 1st half? No, but it was the fire and courage and playcalling and Joe's play gave us a 20-7 lead. But when we came out of the locker room at half time thinking we already won this game (some players actually admitted that), we didn't have the fire and desire to win. You kept saying dont look at score board and it's a 60-minute game and I am sure you say these to your players too but they are not showing that when they hit the field, and your playcalling are not helping them.

Finally on ref: Coach, you do it not by silent protesting after the game but be in front of their f--ing ugly faces during the f---king game. Work with your admin and boosters to make them pay the price!
Click to expand...
Thats a fair analysis and hope CH reads it and adjusts. Yesterday at half time the reporter gal stopped him asked him what they needed to do. He said, we got to play 60 minutes, but guess he forgot to tell the team that. I'm also not for any talk about firing coach but he's getting paid a lot of money to put forth a better effort than we saw yesterday.
 
#60
#60
EZE said:
I’m still 100% bullish on CJH.

Bottom line. We are not very good at the QB position, but the rest of the team is very competitive with Alabama. Complain about the coaching all you want, but they game planned a way to be in a one-score game late on the road against Alabama…and we had the ball.

Milton just isn’t the guy to put the team on his back and carry it down the field. Instead, he held the ball too long…again…. The coaches simply cannot trust him on downfield routes.

If Nico is anywhere near as-advertised, CJH can get back to running his real offense and it will get very fun very soon.
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THIS.

We have a great coach that pulled enough of a miracle for Catholic sainthood to have us beating and competing with our top 10 rivals in his 2nd and 3rd years after an empty roster dumpster fire was what he inherited.

You NegaVOLS can suck balls.
 
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#63
#63
carolinaviking said:
Just to note:

Fulmer went 9-2-1 in his second year, then 8-4 in his third year. I'm guessing lots of fans were very skeptical of his potential after that third year.

He then went 11-1 (damn Gators!) in his fourth year.

We get Bama and UF at Neyland next year, and we *may have a better QB and receiving corps.
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Don't we have an all senior secondary this year? Freshman or sophomore CBs are not a pleasant thought.
 
#65
#65
carolinaviking said:
Just to note:

Fulmer went 9-2-1 in his second year, then 8-4 in his third year. I'm guessing lots of fans were very skeptical of his potential after that third year.

He then went 11-1 (damn Gators!) in his fourth year.

We get Bama and UF at Neyland next year, and we *may have a better QB and receiving corps.
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Not really. The general atmosphere was very + around CPF. 94' was a rebuild, but his recruiting prowess made it clear the trajectory. He'd landed a couple of not to shabby QBs. Now, there were still plenty of bitterness and some rejection due to how our Vol legend was just kicked to the curb.

I hope we have a good 24', but honestly looking at our senior loaded OL, DB, then DL situation, makes me skeptical that it will be any more than a rebuild season w a new QB.
 
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#66
#66
jarnol32 said:
Milton goes 28-41 for 271 yards 2 tds no int
Leads the team with 59 rushing yards.
You blame him for the loss?

You could just preface your comments with the fact that you are clueless about football, and like to go on drunken rants after losses…
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🤣 This Is a Home Run 😃
 
#67
#67
SFBayVol said:
I am not calling for CJH's head but there are few things that if he doesn't change, may potentially cost his job. They are also the traits that set him apart from elite level coaches.
I will also say he's still miles ahead and 10x better than the 4 fools we had before him, and he's still an inexperienced head coach, and I really like him. But as CEO of the football team, it's more about just Xs/Os, it's about developing the organization in all fronts to be in a position to compete and win SEC and get in playoffs every year. This is not an easy job and that's why he's paid $9 mil a year to do it.

1. overly value loyalty, not making hard decisions fast
Martinez should be an obvious and non-controversial one (keeping one obviously incompetent department head for too long). Joe may be the second (value certain attributes over some fundamental flaws). Juries on Banks, Halzle (promoting someone who's close to him but may not be ready for the job) are still out. CJH said many times this football team is a family, it is not. It's an organization whose sole job is to build and equipped to win SEC and make playoffs every year. This requires short-time and long-time planning in all key position groups and risk mitigation. This requires discipline and courage to make tough decisions fast. He has not convinced me he's able to do them yet.

2. stubbornness / hubris
reflects in his in-game decision making and half-time adjustments. Two 4th and 1 in aTM game questionable calls and he even admitted that in post-game conference, but repeat the similar mistakes yesterday. Lining up shotgun on 4th and 1 when o-line is outnumbered and hope team makes play is not a winning strategy. This is inexcusable. This also reflects in his teams not preparing in tough SEC road games (Georgia, SC last year, Florida/Bama this year). With the exception of Georgia, we were talented enough to be in a position to win these games but he went 0/3. In all of these three games, its one of: 1) other teams had a great gameplan / half-time adjustment and we got caught off-guard and not adjust fast 2) not mentally prepared to play in hostile environment (GA/SC, Florida first half, Bama 2nd half). Only bright spot so far was LSU last year which I think is benefited by the bye week and Kelly's poor decision makings in 1st half.

3. some childish behavior that a mature leader doesn't do
Throw bombs in last minute of game leading by 40 points last year against Mizzou that gives enemy unnecessary firepower to revenge, last play in Florida's game that can get your team hurt and suspended, and silent protest when Austin asked about the ref question yesterday. Yes refs suck but this is the life in SEC away games. You cannot say getting shutoff 27-0 is all on ref, and your behavior makes the team think the reason they lost was because of biased zebras. Yes I felt the game was rigged yesterday but you need to mentally prepare your team that fighting biased zebras is part of life in this conference and you need to build a strong lead buffer at any time. Was ref helping us in 1st half? No, but it was the fire and courage and playcalling and Joe's play gave us a 20-7 lead. But when we came out of the locker room at half time thinking we already won this game (some players actually admitted that), we didn't have the fire and willpower to continue expand that lead, and we were not ready for challenges and even more biased calls (which we should all knew would come). You kept saying dont look at score board and it's a 60-minute game and I am sure you say these to your players too but they are not showing that when they hit the field, and your playcalling are not helping them.

Finally on ref: Coach, you do it not by silent protesting after the game but be in front of their f--ing ugly faces during the f---king game. Work with your admin and boosters to make them pay the price!
Click to expand...
Thinking you have won the game at halftime indicates some players are still young and inexperienced. They have to control their attitude and learn to pour it on when you have you foe on their knees. Let them get up and they become the aggressor. Apparently that is what happened yesterday.
 
#68
#68
Just wait till next year when we trot out a fresh QB with zero experience in the SEC. If Niko isn't ready to play by now with no game time experience he won't be ready next year either. Everybody is expecting great things from Niko next year and possibly may do just that but it's highly unlikely. With one guaranteed loss and a possible two more losses coming makes this year a wash and IMO CJH should be getting next year's QB up to speed.
 
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#70
#70
jarnol32 said:
Milton goes 28-41 for 271 yards 2 tds no int
Leads the team with 59 rushing yards.
You blame him for the loss?

You could just preface your comments with the fact that you are clueless about football, and like to go on drunken rants after losses…
Click to expand...
You’re here stating that Milton is a great quarterback while telling me I am clueless about football? Ok man. Lol.

Milton is what 70th in the NCAA in qbr and dead last in the sec. He threw for 271 yards against a secondary that routinely gives up 300+. That sounds decent on paper. But when you watch the game and saw that he missed two open WRS for tds on short passes, routinely overthrew open receivers (especially in the second half) and had a fumble six for holding the ball too long…yes. He is in fact the reason we lost.

I’d even add to that the playcalling has to go conservative/run first due to the coaches knowing he can’t routinely complete passes down the field.

He absolutely is what has held back our offense this year. It’s not hard to see.
 
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#71
#71
turbovol said:
Milton was very good in the first half yesterday because the play calling was very good and creative. We called
a lot of short passing plays, Milton was decisive with the ball, and we executed--getting good yardage on first down, which
enable us to get first down and keep the ball. We needed to stick with that in the 2nd half, but didn't. And it didn't help
that our good first-half defense disappeared. The whole team--including the coaches--fell apart in embarrassing fashion. To win
the first half by 13 points--and of course it should have been more--and then to lose the 2nd half by 27 was absurd. Ridiculous.
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It did get vanilla but re-watch the sack fumble 6 play. They give the angle he's looking at with the receivers. He has plenty of time, he is a second or 2 late with the pass. The receiver was breaking back to the sideline/ball. He needed to throw it earlier. It's the timing thing he has always had a problem with. It was a great play call that Joe 100% didn't execute.
 
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#72
#72
carolinaviking said:
Just to note:

Fulmer went 9-2-1 in his second year, then 8-4 in his third year. I'm guessing lots of fans were very skeptical of his potential after that third year.

He then went 11-1 (damn Gators!) in his fourth year.

We get Bama and UF at Neyland next year, and we *may have a better QB and receiving corps.
Click to expand...
QB cannot be much worse
 
#73
#73
Cartervol said:
Going to be young in some critical spots. Seems we say that every year. This team has a lot of Seniors..Can't replace experience very easily..
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Really couldn't say it this year exc LB minus Pili. We're just not real good at certain positions. #1OL #2DB #3LB #4WR #5QB ... OL very weak for SEC. DBs better but avg. WR wo Bru is young and drop prone. QB refer to existing 934 threads.
 
#74
#74
adam.vol said:
Fulmer took over for a good coach who had won a national title. Heupel took over after 3 consecutive guys who will be lucky to ever head coach a power 5 conference program again.

After last year’s 11-2, Heupel is my guy. The only thing that would turn me against him (in the next 2 years) is arrests or probation. After the two decades we’ve been through, he deserves our full support with a 5-2 record. I’ll still be happy with 8–4 at the end of the season. 7-5 and my attitude will be that we should have done better. 9-3 or 10-2 will be a great year.

If we went 12-0 or 11-1, I would be calling Heupel the GOAT. That was always an extremely long shot.
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Good post! But, I wouldn't worry too much about that.CJH don't seem that wild.
 
#75
#75
Tnslim1 said:
Just wait till next year when we trot out a fresh QB with zero experience in the SEC. If Niko isn't ready to play by now with no game time experience he won't be ready next year either. Everybody is expecting great things from Niko next year and possibly may do just that but it's highly unlikely. With one guaranteed loss and a possible two more losses coming makes this year a wash and IMO CJH should be getting next year's QB up to speed.
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Totally agree we need to get Niko into the games for some playing time. I wasn't in favor of it in the early part of the season ( was waiting to see if we could win the big games against Florida/Bama ). Since we're only playing for a bowl game, why not roll the dice and let Niko play. It could do 2 things positive : could keep defenses guessing how to defend, and also maybe challenge Joe to play better and smarter
 
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