Heupel compared to Kiffin and Sanders on team culture

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Shades

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#1
See below for Heupel's take on team culture compared to Kiffin or Deion.
I like Heupel's take, and it's just my guess that long-term success is more likely with a both high level players AND a good team culture.
Wouldn't be surprised if Heupel is still going strong with the Vols long after Lane's and Deion's programs have burned out.

Heupel:
"At the end of the day, you’re trying to make your roster as good as it can be," explained Heupel on Saturday. "We’ll go through that process, have exit meetings with our own players. I think the culture piece is extremely important in particular at this time of the year because there’s not a lot of time with them before you get to training camp. So it’s gotta be mature guys that you’re bringing into your program, too.”



Kiffin:
"I think, kind of accepting that you’re going to not have phenomenal culture,” said Kiffin last August. “Doesn’t mean I don’t work on it, but I think I have to realize like hey, it just is what it is. Like, one, we don’t have many kids who are dying to be here. They didn’t grow up wanting to go to Ole Miss. These transfer kids are going to a place that fits them best at that time. It’s not about the school and you don’t really have them on their third, fourth, fifth year with you to where they know how we do it, they know expectations, the culture, the other players. Unfortunately, now it’s like plug and play.”



Deion Sanders:
“I’m not welcoming to that word, culture,” Sanders said, via ESPN. “That’s all I heard when I was in Jackson. Culture, culture, culture, culture, culture. Now culture, culture. What the heck does that mean? I don’t think you got to have unity whatsoever. You got to have good players.”

"I don’t care about culture. I don’t even care if they like each other, I want to win,” Sanders proclaimed at the Buffaloes’ annual fall sports media day Friday. “I have been on some teams where the quarterback didn’t like the receiver but they darn sure made harmony when the ball was snapped. And we’re not like that, trust me, these kids are very fond of one another.”
 
#2
#2
See below for Heupel's take on team culture compared to Kiffin or Deion.
I like Heupel's take, and it's just my guess that long-term success is more likely with a both high level players AND a good team culture.
Wouldn't be surprised if Heupel is still going strong with the Vols long after Lane's and Deion's programs have burned out.

Heupel:




Kiffin:




Deion Sanders:

"The culture precedes positive results." - Bill Walsh. In fact, his entire 17-point The Standard of Performance is entirely centered around culture. Those without culture may have short-term success, but it won't be sustainable nor sustained. The book "Gridiron Genius" by Michael Lombardi is a master read on football program culture.
 
#3
#3
I get what Kiffin is trying to say, but he says it in a terrible way. You obviously need to establish some type of culture or you'll have anarchy which would... O wait, Deion does a great job of explaining exactly what that would look like. The current era we're in of the portal already leads guys towards having a me first attitude. Now you're saying there's no need for guys to play well together in a team sport? Good luck with that. Wish we had Colorado on the schedule in an upcoming year.
 
#4
#4
I would argue that Saban had his best success when the culture seemed better. I would also say that the culture of teams like Florida from the outside appears terrible, and it shows on the field.

Georgia appears to have terrible culture, yet still wins on the field due to talent disparity.
 
#6
#6
See below for Heupel's take on team culture compared to Kiffin or Deion.
I like Heupel's take, and it's just my guess that long-term success is more likely with a both high level players AND a good team culture.
Wouldn't be surprised if Heupel is still going strong with the Vols long after Lane's and Deion's programs have burned out.

Heupel:




Kiffin:




Deion Sanders:
Much as I want Sanders to succeed after the BS Jackson Sate heaped on him, he's paying big time for the lack of culture on his CU team. Big time. But seems smart enough to know he has to do something about it. Deion Sanders rips Colorado football after professor says players disrespectful in class

As for Kiffin, he's going to end up at Alabama unless the new HC has the Tide rolling, rolling, rolling, Movin', movin', movin'
Though they're disapprovin' - Keep them dogies* movin' - Rawhide!
 
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#7
#7
Much as I want Sanders to succeed after the BS Jackson Sate heaped on him, he's paying big time for the lack of culture on his CU team. Big time. But seems smart enough to know he has to do something about it. Deion Sanders rips Colorado football after professor says players disrespectful in class

As for Kiffin, he's going to end up at Alabama unless the new HC has the Tide rolling, rolling, rolling, Movin', movin', movin'
Though they're disapprovin' - Keep them dogies* movin' - Rawhide!
What BS did Jackson State hep on Deion? Serious question. I never heard much of anything about it.
 
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#8
#8
I am all for CJH having a winning culture with a winning record. Thing is, this is no longer the 90s or even 2010s. The top players are there primarily for money and secondly for culture.

The project players go for a culture who can maybe make them a star but then, if they do get coached up, they expect to see that money flow or into the portal they go.

Meanwhile, coaches talk culture but if a project isnt working out, they are encouraged to hit the portal to find a place where they can get some playing time.

Point is, the culture of yesteryear simply no longer exists. Something new, a hybrid, has taken its place - and I think Heupel is doing a great job thus far of threading the needle in this brave new world.
 
#9
#9
Under Heupel teams has learned to play football and chew gum at the same time. Coach is considering a switch to bubble gum this fall if a sponsorship deal with Bazooka can be worked out.
 
#10
#10
What BS did Jackson State hep on Deion? Serious question. I never heard much of anything about it.
GOOGLE it. Some of the stuff included Sanders paying for his team's meals and accommodations at because the college wouldn't. And them skimming so much of the revenue generated by football, they couldn't and didn't pay him his full salary. Other stuff GOOGLE it, I have no time or interset in doing this again, after having done it for several people here and elsewhere in the past.
 
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#11
#11
I would argue that Saban had his best success when the culture seemed better. I would also say that the culture of teams like Florida from the outside appears terrible, and it shows on the field.

Georgia appears to have terrible culture, yet still wins on the field due to talent disparity.
Yep - what made Saban so good was he could take the most talented players, regardless of attitude, and indoctrinate them into his culture. All talent and no culture typically won't breed success, and all culture and no talent typically won't breed success.

Agree on Georgia - appears they have a terrible culture and a ton of talent but they keep winning.
 
#12
#12
What BS did Jackson State hep on Deion? Serious question. I never heard much of anything about it.
It was a lot. For one they I mean Jackson State would screw him out of his bonuses. The home stadium would be packed, but the administration would say that the stadium was at 29k, 28k so they wouldn't have to part with the money if the compacity was over 30k. Also, rumor is that he met with the governor of Mississippi, and at the meeting Dieon has a list of demands. The governor states I have given Jackson State the demands you are asking for and then some. So, Deion was made to look like an idiot when the school was, or the President was stealing money. After Deion left for Colorado the president of Jackson State got canned with no vote of confidence.
 
#14
#14
I don't care what anyone of the coaches say. Culture plays a very valuable aspect of any team. Whether they are shooting marbles, throwing horseshoes etc. On any team sport there must be a feeling of love for each other, respect for each other and the desire to win as an entire unit. If the unity and respect for each other is not evident, there will be definite problems. IN CLOSING, THERE IS NEVER AN I IN TEAM. THE TEAM APPROACH IS, ALWAYS HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE, THE WORD..........WE !!!
 
#15
#15
Kiffin is characterless.

Sanders just doesn’t get it.

Heupel has values and will make sure his program is run with those valuesand the players will be happier and more proud because of it. They will also will be much less likely to transfer if they are happy and proud of their program. ( Yes, NIL money will still be a huge issue)
 
#16
#16
It was a lot. For one they I mean Jackson State would screw him out of his bonuses. The home stadium would be packed, but the administration would say that the stadium was at 29k, 28k so they wouldn't have to part with the money if the compacity was over 30k. Also, rumor is that he met with the governor of Mississippi, and at the meeting Dieon has a list of demands. The governor states I have given Jackson State the demands you are asking for and then some. So, Deion was made to look like an idiot when the school was, or the President was stealing money. After Deion left for Colorado the president of Jackson State got canned with no vote of confidence.
Seems like a classic case of the crab theory. I've seen such conduct too often. My take is that, sadly, the worst enemies are the ones within. Pogo, you were right.
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#18
#18
Anyone else read what Dion said and think of Kelly Washington?

In the world of the transfer portal, it seems to me that it is going to be difficult to establish a culture.
 
#19
#19
Kiffin obviously doesn't care about his players on a personal lever or the Ole Miss program. He is just using everybody around him as a stepping stone. He is designing that team like he already has one step out the door.

Deion on the other hand sounds similar to Pruitt. All about the jimmies and joes. It can turn south really quickly though like it did to end of last season. And if you don't have the right culture in place it can be hard to pick yourself up after adversity.
 
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#24
#24
I am all for CJH having a winning culture with a winning record. Thing is, this is no longer the 90s or even 2010s. The top players are there primarily for money and secondly for culture.

The project players go for a culture who can maybe make them a star but then, if they do get coached up, they expect to see that money flow or into the portal they go.

Meanwhile, coaches talk culture but if a project isnt working out, they are encouraged to hit the portal to find a place where they can get some playing time.

Point is, the culture of yesteryear simply no longer exists. Something new, a hybrid, has taken its place - and I think Heupel is doing a great job thus far of threading the needle in this brave new world.
I don’t get this notion that talent and culture are inversely correlated. “Culture” doesn’t have to mean a bunch of Rudys. It can be a bunch of elite recruits coming into an environment where the expectation is to work really hard so that elite talent translates to elite on-field results.
 
#25
#25
As a cultural anthropologist by training, I must confess that these arguments drive me up a tree. There is not a football coach in the country that has a clue what culture truly is. The concepts to which they allude barely even scratch the surface, let alone the breadth, of what culture entails. Culture, by definition, is far more than a small cluster of specific core values shared by members of a particular group. In a best-case scenario, coaches try to establish the athletic equivalent of military esprit de corps, a “feeling of loyalty and pride that is shared by the members of a group who consider themselves to be different from other people in some special way.”

Conceptually, the constituent elements of culture are so numerous and all-encompassing that cultural anthropologists have never adopted a singular definition that is universally agreed upon. Nevertheless, the definition advanced by the pioneering English Anthropologist Edward B. Tylor in 1871 remains highly illustrative. Tylor said that culture is "that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, law, morals, custom, and any other capabilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society."

Having said that, Tylor’s definition didn’t address material culture at all. The devices that we use to communicate with each other on this forum, the clothes that we wear, the vehicles that we drive, the tools that we use and, on the athletic field, the various implements used in competition, training and components worn by the Big Orange all qualify as falling under the umbrella of material culture, as opposed to the ideational traits that Tylor emphasized.

Language, however, is ultimately the communication medium through which all other cultural traits emerge and evolve over time.

With respect, however, to the comparison made in the original post, Heupel’s approach is the most conducive to sustained long-term success, all other things being equal in terms of player recruitment and development.
 
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