Having trouble buying the youth/talent and not.....

#1
Volfan76

Volfan76

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#1
coaching as the primary source of our offensive problems and here is why.

It starts with last years offensive line that was probably the most talented in the country as evidenced by their early professional success. They largely underachieved last year and we were told things like "they didn't fit the system" and we didn't think much about it mostly because of glaring deficiencies at other positions. Coaches knew what we had for this years talent at the position and who we had coming in better than we did and didn't make it a priority with recruiting last year. Butch keeps saying "name another program in America starting 2 freshmen on the offensive line". Two I could find with a quick search is USC and BYU....(they are both doing better than us.) I recall the meetings the players had with Butch begging him to keep Sam Pittman and when that didn't move Butch into action, we assumed Mahoney must be excellent or Butch has some blind loyalty to his guys and I'm beginning to suspect the later is the case. We have seen the result of blind loyalty in the past with Fulmer's downfall and Randy Sanders when Fulmer had to be forced to let him go. I think the most frustrating part of this is that we have elite talent here or coming here at virtually every other position and we don't have anybody coming in that looks to be able to help much (at least not immediately) at the position. Which raises the question...do elite Oline players not want to play for Mahoney for some reason?? I don't know the answer to that but I do know we have a special group of players with a LOT of talent on both sides of the ball, and I hate to see it squandered because of the deficiencies at one position whether it be coach or player. I'll not go into play calling as this got longer than I anticipated. Thoughts?
 
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#3
#3
BYU just got beat by USU.

Pittman was good but how do you know he even wanted to stay at UT?
 
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#4
#4
My thoughts are let him hitch his wagon to who he wants. He can sink or swim with them. I'd suggest not getting too comfy, the natives are restless as they should be. This is Tennessee not some crap hole.. The best coaches adjust to what they have. Not seeing that with this bunch.. The offense looks very much like those stagnant Fulmer offenses of the past. Doesn't matter what you call it. Gap scheme, zone read, read option. It's hot garbage right now.
 
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#5
#5
It is simple. The offensive line is a disaster. It is not defensible or excusable. Some peolpe want to blame Dooley, but Butch and company have had 2 years of coaching/development and 2 recruiting classes to give us something that is at least average. I would be fine with even the 8th best oline out of 14 teams. We are easily 13th or 14th.

Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

The defense is playing top notch, QB has improved. We would be competing for the east with a even a decent o-line. It has ruined the season.
 
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#6
#6
Cartervol said:
My thoughts are let him hitch his wagon to who he wants. He can sink or swim with them. I'd suggest not getting too comfy, the natives are restless as they should be. This is Tennessee not some crap hole.. The best coaches adjust to what they have. Not seeing that with this bunch.. The offense looks very much like those stagnant Fulmer offenses of the past. Doesn't matter what you call it. Gap scheme, zone read, read option. It's hot garbage right now.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much it.

Butch is loyal to his coaches (obviously) and if it leads to his demise or his success is just a waiting game for us.
 
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#7
#7
If the problem is simply the inexperience of the line and not the coaching, then they should be improving over the course of the season as they gain more experience. Do they really look like they are getting any better to you?
 
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#8
#8
omghulkhands said:
It is simple. The offensive line is a disaster. It is not defensible or excusable. Some peolpe want to blame Dooley, but Butch and company have had 2 years of coaching/development and 2 recruiting classes to give us something that is at least average. I would be fine with even the 8th best oline out of 14 teams. We are easily 13th or 14th.

Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

The defense is playing top notch, QB has improved. We would be competing for the east with a even a decent o-line. It has ruined the season.
Click to expand...
They've not even been here two years. Nor is 2 years a good amount of time to develop an O-line.
 
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#9
#9
omghulkhands said:
It is simple. The offensive line is a disaster. It is not defensible or excusable. Some peolpe want to blame Dooley, but Butch and company have had 2 years of coaching/development and 2 recruiting classes to give us something that is at least average. I would be fine with even the 8th best oline out of 14 teams. We are easily 13th or 14th.

Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

The defense is playing top notch, QB has improved. We would be competing for the east with a even a decent o-line. It has ruined the season.
Click to expand...
2 year gap in Oline recruiting according to Butch.. Dooley wasn't recruiting the best of talent and pretty much forgot that Oline is fairly important. Just shows how horrible the management has been at UT to have hired Dooley in the first place. Letting Hamilton sign off on yet another disaster hire was even worse. There are some people high up that really should thank their lucky stars they're still drawing paychecks from Tennessee. They really shouldn't be..
 
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#10
#10
coaches lost some points with me Saturday for the first time. lets see if they can get them back.
 
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#11
#11
O Line is a developmental position. Remember the Sullins twins? Hardesty had a 1000 yard season behind two walk ons who were 5th year seniors.

Our O Line will get better with time. Until they do it'll be painful to watch.

You don't play winning football in the SEC without a decent line and we don't have one.
 
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#14
#14
We have 3 RS Juniors on the line and they are all equally as bad as the freshmen. Those are 4th year players. Like I said, no excuses.
 
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#15
#15
utvolpj said:
BYU just got beat by USU.

Pittman was good but how do you know he even wanted to stay at UT?
Click to expand...

He said so in an interview before he left but he also acknowledged that most coaches have their own guy and he would just have to wait and see.
 
#16
#16
Cartervol said:
My thoughts are let him hitch his wagon to who he wants. He can sink or swim with them. I'd suggest not getting too comfy, the natives are restless as they should be. This is Tennessee not some crap hole.. The best coaches adjust to what they have. Not seeing that with this bunch.. The offense looks very much like those stagnant Fulmer offenses of the past. Doesn't matter what you call it. Gap scheme, zone read, read option. It's hot garbage right now.
Click to expand...


Fact
 
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#17
#17
oregonvol said:
If the problem is simply the inexperience of the line and not the coaching, then they should be improving over the course of the season as they gain more experience. Do they really look like they are getting any better to you?
Click to expand...

I think you've hit on something there, but inevitably there will be ups and downs, so I need until after the South Carolina game to answer that.
 
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#19
#19
omghulkhands said:
We have 3 RS Juniors on the line and they are all equally as bad as the freshmen. Those are 4th year players. Like I said, no excuses.
Click to expand...

I don't like to think about it, but there's a possibility that they just aren't very good.
 
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#20
#20
oregonvol said:
If the problem is simply the inexperience of the line and not the coaching, then they should be improving over the course of the season as they gain more experience. Do they really look like they are getting any better to you?
Click to expand...

Hard to tell since the level of competition is also going up.
Volfan76 said:
He said so in an interview before he left but he also acknowledged that most coaches have their own guy and he would just have to wait and see.
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Of course he did since the only other option was going to look for a new job. The truth is never really that simple
 
#21
#21
GAVol said:
I don't like to think about it, but there's a possibility that they just aren't very good.
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That means the guys behind them are that much worse. I think that only further encapsulates my point. IT.IS.A.DISASTER
 
#22
#22
I agree Mahoney looks very suspect right now.

I expect improvement or a change in the offseason. Butch isn't going to make a change midway through the season and he isn't going to throw anyone under the bus either.
 
#23
#23
vollygirl said:
Where have you been? Nice to see you around.
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:hi:

Been giving the board a rest and just lurking here and there and watching the season play out. The board is almost too confrontational for me anymore, not much football talk or debate just a bunch of rah rah rahers or we'll never win another gamers calling each other out. Pretty sad and pointless really.
 
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#24
#24
Yeah the Oline is bad. You can't just say it's one or two spots either. That's why my expectations of next year has already been curbed to a degree. I'm not sure you can fix that quick enough..
 
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#25
#25
oregonvol said:
If the problem is simply the inexperience of the line and not the coaching, then they should be improving over the course of the season as they gain more experience. Do they really look like they are getting any better to you?
Click to expand...

They do to me. We lost Gilliam and took a step backwards. Stepped forward at UGA. Stepped back with Florida. The improvement is not linear...but very few things are. I personally had college classes where i did well on some exams, poorly on others, and managed to make a good grade because I learned more about my understanding of the material on the bad tests. The tests were the same format, too. I didn't have the prof trying to beat me like the OL does with the defensive players. Imagine how poorly i would have done if the format got progressively more heavily weighted to my weaknesses as the prof learned my tendencies both good and bad with exams as the semester progressed.
 
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