Hart must read this

#76
#76
Giveem6 said:
Sorry dude but after gruden gets his last check from Tampa Bay, which is tomorrow, he will be clad in orange and you sir will eat your words. Nobody will ever be calling for Dooley to come back.

Obviously you don't understand how college football works in that the name Gruden will instantly make the vols better. All the sudden these 5 star kids see Jon gruden and kno he is an nfl guy. Your statistics in the pros are so skewed bc of a dozen factors or so.

If you hire him, the will come, and we will win
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Wow....and just when I thought the BS couldn't POSSIBLY get any deeper, you go and post this. Please explain to me how my statistics are skewed?? Fact is, THEY'RE NOT. That IS how your precious f'n golden boy Gruden's offense fared. That IS how Monte's defense fared. How did I skew it?? By looking up FACTS?? Come on, man....be serious here. You're looking for reasons now, and I just made you look completely stupid.

And all these magical five-stars that Gruden MAY get are all well and good, but what happens when they don't get developed?? What happens when 3 years down the road, there's no national championship, and at BEST, we're second in the SECE?? What happens then?? Gruden FAILED with professionals, what in the name of all that's holy makes you think he'll succeed with high schoolers?? Enlighten ME, wise one.
 
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#77
#77
Giveem6 said:
You do realize that when he becomes head coach is going to put a Tennessee staff all around him and that is what I like most. I want vols guys who played and guys who coached and gruden is that guy. ****k butch Davis good coach but not a volunteer. Same goes for jimbo or Charlie strong. I want a volunteer
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uhm.....HE WAS HERE FOR ONE YEAR. The 1985-1986 season. Look it up. Y'all make him sound like he was around since the General's days or something.
 
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#78
#78
DeusExMachina said:
Wow....and just when I thought the BS couldn't POSSIBLY get any deeper, you go and post this. Please explain to me how my statistics are skewed?? Fact is, THEY'RE NOT. That IS how your precious f'n golden boy Gruden's offense fared. That IS how Monte's defense fared. How did I skew it?? By looking up FACTS?? Come on, man....be serious here. You're looking for reasons now, and I just made you look completely stupid.

And all these magical five-stars that Gruden MAY get are all well and good, but what happens when they don't get developed?? What happens when 3 years down the road, there's no national championship, and at BEST, we're second in the SECE?? What happens then?? Gruden FAILED with professionals, what in the name of all that's holy makes you think he'll succeed with high schoolers?? Enlighten ME, wise one.
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Your facts are skewed because college football is not the NFL.

You're saying Monte deserves all of the credit for winning the NFL. Newsflash, Monte Kiffin's defense sucks ass in college.

Jim Mora, Nick Saban, Pete Carroll etc. have sucked in the NFL. Newsflash, they're awesome at the college level.

No one is trying to convince you to like Gruden so it's retarded that you spend so much time trying to convince everyone to agree with you. We know, you think Gruden is the anti-christ and a 3 year old would make a better coach. Nobody gives a ****. Your opinion isn't superior so quit putting yourself on a pedestal as if you're right and everyone else is wrong.
 
#79
#79
Gruden FAILED with professionals, what in the name of all that's holy makes you think he'll succeed with high schoolers?? Enlighten ME, wise one.
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Again... this is why your argument is retarded.

Jim Mora 31-33
Nick Saban 15-17
Pete Carroll 53-53

They couldn't coach NFL players but they can "succeed with high schoolers".

Oh but that's right... a winning record and winning a Super Bowl isn't successful in comparison to those records, right? Ahhhhhhh, Monte Kiffin is the end all to be all. So... if Monte Kiffin was the best at coaching NFL players, why the does he suck ass at "coaching high schoolers"????

You're a hypocrite dude. You only build arguments to favor what you're saying and it really doesn't even favor what you say. Your arguments are pure trash. You don't like Gruden so you run off at the mouth making every stupid claim you can come up with. I just threw it all back in your face and you'll just deny it despite the fact it trashes your worthless argument.
 
#80
#80
CountVolcula said:
Same things were said about Fulmer

When you have to win in the SEC, you have to look over some of the "talent" in Tennessee. Its sub-par compared to other states

It is what it is

Sorry some get their feelings hurt over it
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Hurd, Ramsey, Elder, Dodson and even Simms aren't sub-par talents you look over. This is embarrassing for UT and reflects poorly on Dooley's character IMO. This is the second article in a matter of a week detailing his arrogance and fumbling of relationships in the state.
 
#81
#81
TOP said:
Your facts are skewed because college football is not the NFL.

You're saying Monte deserves all of the credit for winning the NFL. Newsflash, Monte Kiffin's defense sucks ass in college.

Jim Mora, Nick Saban, Pete Carroll etc. have sucked in the NFL. Newsflash, they're awesome at the college level.

No one is trying to convince you to like Gruden so it's retarded that you spend so much time trying to convince everyone to agree with you. We know, you think Gruden is the anti-christ and a 3 year old would make a better coach. Nobody gives a ****. Your opinion isn't superior so quit putting yourself on a pedestal as if you're right and everyone else is wrong.
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Dude. Calm yourself. Gruden's not coming, and I'm happy. However, since you obviously WANT to argue, I'll bite.

1: Yes, Monte deserves the credit. Absolutely, unequivocally. When a DC is putting a top ten defense on the field, and the HC/OC isn't breaking into the top half of the NFL.....guess who gets credit?? And as for "Monte's defense sucks in college".....2008 was Monte's last pro year. Maybe the guy's lost a step, maybe OC's have figured him out, maybe it's the players, iunno. However, Monte Kiffin saved Jon Gruden's ass in Tampa. For you to dispute that is ludicrous.

2: I like math. Math's hard to dispute. I'll get to the math in your next post, though. I can prove you wrong quite easily, just be patient.

3: Nah, not the anti-christ, not even close. What I think about Jon Gruden is that he is NOT "head coach at the University of Tennessee" material. And where have I put myself on a pedestal?? Sounds kinda like you're having a time trying to figure out how to argue with facts.

TOP said:
Again... this is why your argument is retarded.

Jim Mora 31-33

Nick Saban 15-17

Pete Carroll 53-53

They couldn't coach NFL players but they can "succeed with high schoolers".

Oh but that's right... a winning record and winning a Super Bowl isn't successful in comparison to those records, right? Ahhhhhhh, Monte Kiffin is the end all to be all. So... if Monte Kiffin was the best at coaching NFL players, why the does he suck ass at "coaching high schoolers"????

You're a hypocrite dude. You only build arguments to favor what you're saying and it really doesn't even favor what you say. Your arguments are pure trash. You don't like Gruden so you run off at the mouth making every stupid claim you can come up with. I just threw it all back in your face and you'll just deny it despite the fact it trashes your worthless argument.
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Ah, time for math. Given that there are 16 games in an NFL season......

Mora: 31+33=64/16= 4 seasons

Saban: 15+17=32/16= 2 seasons

Carroll: 53+53=106/16 = 6 seasons, 10 games into another.

Gruden: 94+81=175.

Now, given that my hypothesis is that Gruden sucked at his last job, let's just narrow this down to:

Gruden: 52-50

Well, looky there, that's eerily close to Pete Carroll's record. However, Gruden's record comes with an asterisk. Pete Carroll doesn't have a top-10 defense backing him up. Now, use the transitive property and just a smidgen of imagination (you have to take your eyes off, and stop drooling over Grubage's ring for this to work), put Jon Gruden in Seattle, with Seattle's defense. Betcha his record's a lot worse than Carroll's. You can't really use Saban and Mora as an example, as the records aren't anywhere near close. What's saying that Saban doesn't pull a rabbit out of a hat in Miami if the Alabama job doesn't come open?? What happens in Atlanta if Mora keeps his mouth shut about the UW job?? The world will never know.


I cordially invite you to stop running off at the mouth, and if my arguments are so flawed, make some of your own instead of calling names. Try using facts instead of emotions, though. They tend to work better. And for the record, I just threw your argument back in your face. Let's see what you do with it.
 
#82
#82
DeusExMachina said:
Dude. Calm yourself. Gruden's not coming, and I'm happy. However, since you obviously WANT to argue, I'll bite.

1: Yes, Monte deserves the credit. Absolutely, unequivocally. When a DC is putting a top ten defense on the field, and the HC/OC isn't breaking into the top half of the NFL.....guess who gets credit?? And as for "Monte's defense sucks in college".....2008 was Monte's last pro year. Maybe the guy's lost a step, maybe OC's have figured him out, maybe it's the players, iunno. However, Monte Kiffin saved Jon Gruden's ass in Tampa. For you to dispute that is ludicrous.

2: I like math. Math's hard to dispute. I'll get to the math in your next post, though. I can prove you wrong quite easily, just be patient.

3: Nah, not the anti-christ, not even close. What I think about Jon Gruden is that he is NOT "head coach at the University of Tennessee" material. And where have I put myself on a pedestal?? Sounds kinda like you're having a time trying to figure out how to argue with facts.



Ah, time for math. Given that there are 16 games in an NFL season......

Mora: 31+33=64/16= 4 seasons

Saban: 15+17=32/16= 2 seasons

Carroll: 53+53=106/16 = 6 seasons, 10 games into another.

Gruden: 94+81=175.

Now, given that my hypothesis is that Gruden sucked at his last job, let's just narrow this down to:

Gruden: 52-50

Well, looky there, that's eerily close to Pete Carroll's record. However, Gruden's record comes with an asterisk. Pete Carroll doesn't have a top-10 defense backing him up. Now, use the transitive property and just a smidgen of imagination (you have to take your eyes off, and stop drooling over Grubage's ring for this to work), put Jon Gruden in Seattle, with Seattle's defense. Betcha his record's a lot worse than Carroll's. You can't really use Saban and Mora as an example, as the records aren't anywhere near close. What's saying that Saban doesn't pull a rabbit out of a hat in Miami if the Alabama job doesn't come open?? What happens in Atlanta if Mora keeps his mouth shut about the UW job?? The world will never know.


I cordially invite you to stop running off at the mouth, and if my arguments are so flawed, make some of your own instead of calling names. Try using facts instead of emotions, though. They tend to work better. And for the record, I just threw your argument back in your face. Let's see what you do with it.
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I guess if you want to believe all of that hot garbage you are entitled to. I witnessed first hand what he could do when he came to Oakland and turned them around with an overbearing micromanaging owner with dementia breathing down his neck.

And a lot of people point out Tampa. Tells me a lot about how much some of you follow that organization. After their SB run, Tampa disassembled their team by letting key FA go on the market to get picked up by other teams. Their owner was a tightwad and wouldn't sign any big name FA to keep the train rolling. The only avenue Gruden had to rebuild the team was the draft. NFL is different than college in that even the worst player in the pros is a great player. You fall behind on talent it's hard to win in the NFL. It truly is a star driven league.
 
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#84
#84
sanddune50 said:
I guess if you want to believe all of that hot garbage you are entitled to. I witnessed first hand what he could do when he came to Oakland and turned them around with an overbearing micromanaging owner with dementia breathing down his neck.

And a lot of people point out Tampa. Tells me a lot about how much some of you follow that organization. After their SB run, Tampa disassembled their team by letting key FA go on the market to get picked up by other teams. Their owner was a tightwad and wouldn't sign any big name FA to keep the train rolling. The only avenue Gruden had to rebuild the team was the draft. NFL is different than college in that even the worst player in the pros is a great player. You fall behind on talent it's hard to win in the NFL. It truly is a star driven league.
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And now, I have you. You're gonna LOVE this, it's gonna blow your mind. Ready??

Jon Gruden: HC/OC, TB, 2002-2008
Monte Kiffin, DC, TB, 2002-2008

Malcolm Glazer bought the Buccaneers in 1995. Riddle me this, how is one coach able to put a top ten unit on the field, while another coach, under the same exact ownership (read: constraints) isn't able even to break into the top 16 of the NFL (that's halfway, for anyone educated in Alabama).

I eagerly await your reply, and please try not questioning my Bucs fanhood.
 
#85
#85
DeusExMachina said:
And now, I have you. You're gonna LOVE this, it's gonna blow your mind. Ready??

Jon Gruden: HC/OC, TB, 2002-2008
Monte Kiffin, DC, TB, 2002-2008

Malcolm Glazer bought the Buccaneers in 1995. Riddle me this, how is one coach able to put a top ten unit on the field, while another coach, under the same exact ownership (read: constraints) isn't able even to break into the top 16 of the NFL (that's halfway, for anyone educated in Alabama).

I eagerly await your reply, and please try not questioning my Bucs fanhood.
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Lol. You have me? Notice how you skated over the portion of my post that discusses his success in Oakland. As for the rest of your post, what did you prove? Top ten unit? In what, defense? Offense? Special teams?

Only thing you have is a very vague post that doesn't address any of my points. Was Glazer not tight with salaries? Was Tampa not one of the lowest spending teams in the league during Gruden's stay?


Here was an excerpt from one of the articles I read about Malcolm Glazer in reference to his ownership of the Bucs.

"For the first several years, the Buccaneers experienced improved success on the field during Glazer's ownership. After suffering through over a decade of consecutive losing seasons, the Bucs made the playoffs in 1997 and the NFC championship game in 1999 under coach Tony Dungy, and won their first Super Bowl in 2002 under coach Jon Gruden.

After Glazer began to take control of Manchester United in 2004 (see below), the Bucs' fortunes faded, as they spent far less on player salaries than allowed under the NFL's salary cap. Media observers and local fans have expressed their suspicion that Glazer has diverted funds from the Bucs to reduce the debt accumulated in the Manchester United purchase at the expense of the Bucs' continued success."

Face it, Gruden had to compete in a star driven league with mediocre and average players during his stay in Tampa.
 
#86
#86
sanddune50 said:
Lol. You have me? Notice how you skated over the portion of my post that discusses his success in Oakland. As for the rest of your post, what did you prove? Top ten unit? In what, defense? Offense? Special teams?

Only thing you have is a very vague post that doesn't address any of my points. Was Glazer not tight with salaries? Was Tampa not one of the lowest spending teams in the league during Gruden's stay?


Here was an excerpt from one of the articles I read about Malcolm Glazer in reference to his ownership of the Bucs.

"wikipedia stuff that I've already read."

Face it, Gruden had to compete in a star driven league with mediocre and average players during his stay in Tampa.
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I covered all that in post #71. Try clicking the link I provided next time. Here, I'll help you.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/7637281-post41.html

Yes, Glazer is a tightwad. Yes, the Bucs were well under the salary cap. Now, I want YOU explain to ME how the defense was able to maintain a top ten ranking in both yards against and points against (if you'd LIKE, I CAN find more evidence that proves my point), while Gruden's offense ALONE suffered from "mediocre and average players during his stay in Tampa".

I'll hang up and listen.
 
#87
#87
DeusExMachina said:
I covered all that in post #71. Try clicking the link I provided next time. Here, I'll help you.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/7637281-post41.html

Yes, Glazer is a tightwad. Yes, the Bucs were well under the salary cap. Now, I want YOU explain to ME how the defense was able to maintain a top ten ranking in both yards against and points against (if you'd LIKE, I CAN find more evidence that proves my point), while Gruden's offense ALONE suffered from "mediocre and average players during his stay in Tampa".

I'll hang up and listen.
Click to expand...

I'd check what % of that money was on D. Good chance it was a lot higher than that O.
 
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