Handgun Owners

[Coug]

A friend and I rented a Desert Eagle at what used to be Coal Creek Armory. That was both super fun and ridiculous at the same time.

 

[bag12day]

Very sorry for the long post but a lot to unpack here....

They are ugly.
The 365 is just a game changer for CC. I tote around a 229 and love it, but it prints easily. I have a Ruger LC9S for my skinny jeans.

Ugly=So is my 93 Toyota pickup compared to my 4 runner or Tundra but for a functional purpose I can drive that across and thru fields and mud where the other two sink outta sight. I own guns because they serve a purpose not because they are functional except a double rifle that is purty but doesn't leave my safe.
Skinny Jeans- Sig and Ruger called and they want all their guns back.

Go to a gun shop/range that rents handguns. Try a few and see what you shoot best. You could also go to a class. Explain your situation to the instructor and he will get you squared away. Please understand carrying a gun is a lifestyle change. Also remember it’s not supposed to be comfortable, it’s supposed to be comforting. Best of luck to you.

Excellent advice-I teach a few classes including Personal Defense inside and outside the home as well as CC in a few states. THIS is exactly the advice I give... Go to a range, friends, instructors etc... and shoot and handle as many as you can find what works for you.
What I like you might hate for various reasons including weight, comfort, or feel. Your carry gun will be like when I went from a bag phone in my truck, to a Nokia flip phone to a "big iPhone", to a small computer but if I don't have it I feel naked. When you add or change something to your person (new gun, wallet, phone,etc…) carry it EVERY DAY for 2-3 weeks and at that point you will feel naked without it. If you carry it 2 hours every other day it WILL feel weird uncomfortable to carry anytime you have it on. My brother is a cop and his wife is a school teacher who trained with me. She for obvious reasons (in NC its a felony to carry on school grounds) couldn't carry most of the day so when she did carry on weekends it was uncomfortable or she stashed it in a purse where its worthless IMO. I challenged her to wear it 16hours a day during the three weeks they were out for Christmas and it became second nature. Now she's uncomfortable for the 7 hours she's at school and doesn't have it.

I need something I can primarily conceal. I've considered a second weapon with a little more stopping power for home defense, but funds right now probably limit me to one gun. About the only thing I have which could loosely be considered 'home defense' is my Mossberg Turkey gun, and that's not something I'd want to shoot several times in quick succession.
I've looked at several today but I haven't had a chance to shoot anything yet. Sigs, H&K, and a couple of Smith & Wessons. But there are a LOT of choices out there.

A little more stopping power equals going thru walls to neighbors house, kids room, etc... Calculate the longest shot in your house down a hall, stairs whatever and shoot your Mossie with number 8s at a piece of actual meat like cheap pork ham and see what it does at 10,15, or 30 feet. You should already know if you have shot a turkey at 10 yards lol.Now go get a piece of 1/2 plywood and 3 inches insulation and vinyl siding to simulate your house exterior, or 2 layers of drywall and insulation for the interior and shoot from a little bit more than that max intruder distance and get back to me.
Many opinions for sure on this and mine may be wrong too. I can quote a bunch of statistics but I'll break it down like this... When you shuck a shell into that Mossberg 98% of your home invaders are diving outta windows to get away before a trigger is depressed. 1.99% of those left too intent on doing you harm are scrambling to leave when the first shot is fired. The other .1% that are soooo hopped up on something, are worthy of a reload and unless there's more than 3 of them (infinitesimally unlikely) you killed the first three with your two shots.

All those guns are fine choices and if you decide on a model be sure to check used LEO at some places online. I had several models that I have either directly purchased from a LEOs ( they were allowed to sell or keep their own guns) that have not been fired much more than break-in or from a dealer. One of the guys I teach with was a Class 3 FFL so he got a lot of offers. For example one of the S&W 40C guns I HAD the mags were beat to hell on the bottoms but the feed ramp looked brand new... After digging into it they were owned by a local Community college and when they went to the range annually they did dry fire reload exercises on a concrete pad with their carry gun but all shot qual with a couple of "Designated Range guns" exactly the same gun but the RSO /instructor didn't want them scratching and beating up all their guns. WTH but the end result was they had 10 guns with ragged mags but very little use. Most agencies have dropped back to ridiculous levels of annual Qual or practice rounds ( for example my brother's agency and the agency where my business is located offers 50 Rounds for practice and 30 for Qual ANNUALLY)! You know how many most of them use? 30 for Qual. and that equals a 5year old turn in with max 200 rounds down the pipe.
Look around and you may be able to buy two nice used LEO turn-ins for the cost of one new in box. The other advantage is they will already have tritium night sights and possibly lights on them.

A friend and I rented a Desert Eagle at what used to be Coal Creek Armory. That was both super fun and ridiculous at the same time.

When I teach a CC class one of the things I do is put on about 7 or 8 guns I USED to have in various holsters and greet everyone at 730-8am, start class, and around 9AM ask how many people talked to me (my last class at my firestation was 14 students including 1 active and 1 retired LEO) and how many guns do they think I have on. Full disclaimer Im 6'2" and 280 ish so I'll be able to conceal a 229 or 226 appendix with out printing cause of my belly. When I take out 2 1911's, a Sig 226, a 229, Smith 40C, .357 Mag snub, a ruger .380 with laser from my "cell phone pouch clearly visible) a Keltec .380 from a pocket holster, and then the Coup de gras I pulled out my .50 Desert Eagle I USED to have from a shoulder holster.
Nobody has a clue including guys who are trained to look for stuff like that. I've done it with a regular microfiber t shirt under and a patterned button up shirt over the guns. If I can carry that many then you can figure out how to carry 1.
I have unfortunately recently lost all of the aforementioned guns in a terrible boating accident along with many of my Volnation friends.
Again sorry for the long post, bottom line is you can carry whatever you feel like once you get used to it.

 

[YankeeVol]

Just don’t buy Glock.

Sig P365 if you are going to carry it as well, P320/229/226 if you are only using it in home. All 9mm, some available in .357 Sig

I got the 365 for CC and a .45 320 for the house.

 

[YankeeVol]

To me, Glocks are the worst feeling gun in my hand. For the money I dont think you can beat a shield. I have not seen the new Sig much as i have been out of the gun game for a bit. Might have to try it out.

The Shield is probably my least favorite gun I've owned.

 

[YankeeVol]

I need something I can primarily conceal. I've considered a second weapon with a little more stopping power for home defense, but funds right now probably limit me to one gun. About the only thing I have which could loosely be considered 'home defense' is my Mossberg Turkey gun, and that's not something I'd want to shoot several times in quick succession.

I've looked at several today but I haven't had a chance to shoot anything yet. Sigs, H&K, and a couple of Smith & Wessons. But there are a LOT of choices out there.

"Stopping power" is a myth really. There are plenty of studies (I believe I posted it in the other thread), that show the differences in ammo.

 

[bag12day]

"Stopping power" is a myth really. There are plenty of studies (I believe I posted it in the other thread), that show the differences in ammo.

Absolutely true, penetration and expansion is widely variable even is same calibers and grains. Deer will not react the same way as an intruder or a criminal at the gas station due to fight or flight responses dulled by drugs or stupidity but for giggles...
Shoot a deer in the head 1)with a shotgun at 10 yards and its DRT (dead right there) facing the opposite way with no head, 2) a .45ACP DRT with lots of brain matter splattered, 3)a .22 mag or .22LR DRT with a small hole and no exit.
Shoot that same deer in the boiler room heart lungs with 1)a 338 Lupua, 300 WIn Mag or 30 06 DRT with gaping exit, 2) Shotgun DRT with huge hole, 3) .45 maybe DRT, maybe 80 yard dash but no exit, 4) .270 .22 or small rounds like .380 that thing will go 80-100 yards or more before expiring. Dead yeah, but a methed up deer with a knife will get to you lol.

 

[FearAVolunteer]

Just out of curiosity, what did you not like about it? I just passed my class for my carry permit this weekend, and after having tried a friend's Shield 2.0, decided to go with it as my EDC.
I tried out quite a few at the range, and have owned a couple different handguns over the years but there was just something I loved about the Shield lol.

-Edit: I meant to quote YankeeVol

 

[CAVPUT]

Currently, my set up for concealed carry is a Glock 23 with an IWB Crossbreed holster. I carry the North American Arms Guardian 380 in an Alessi ankle rig as my backup. For home defense, I have an H&K USP45 with a weapon mounted light.

Having said that, I think for most people, the smart play for home defense would be a revolver/shotgun combo. If it's the middle of the night, I don't want my wife trying to fumble with a semi-auto. The KISS rule wins here. Just make it point and shoot. Far more likely to down an intruder with a shotgun in the middle of the night after being pulled from a deep sleep.

 

[hndog609]

Just out of curiosity, what did you not like about it? I just passed my class for my carry permit this weekend, and after having tried a friend's Shield 2.0, decided to go with it as my EDC.
I tried out quite a few at the range, and have owned a couple different handguns over the years but there was just something I loved about the Shield lol.

-Edit: I meant to quote YankeeVol

A perfect example of "what works for me might not for thee" regarding handguns. The only way to know is to handle, and better yet shoot, everything you can that's in your budget.

 

[BarrythesnoUT]

Very sorry for the long post but a lot to unpack here....

Ugly=So is my 93 Toyota pickup compared to my 4 runner or Tundra but for a functional purpose I can drive that across and thru fields and mud where the other two sink outta sight. I own guns because they serve a purpose not because they are functional except a double rifle that is purty but doesn't leave my safe.
Skinny Jeans- Sig and Ruger called and they want all their guns back.

Excellent advice-I teach a few classes including Personal Defense inside and outside the home as well as CC in a few states. THIS is exactly the advice I give... Go to a range, friends, instructors etc... and shoot and handle as many as you can find what works for you.
What I like you might hate for various reasons including weight, comfort, or feel. Your carry gun will be like when I went from a bag phone in my truck, to a Nokia flip phone to a "big iPhone", to a small computer but if I don't have it I feel naked. When you add or change something to your person (new gun, wallet, phone,etc…) carry it EVERY DAY for 2-3 weeks and at that point you will feel naked without it. If you carry it 2 hours every other day it WILL feel weird uncomfortable to carry anytime you have it on. My brother is a cop and his wife is a school teacher who trained with me. She for obvious reasons (in NC its a felony to carry on school grounds) couldn't carry most of the day so when she did carry on weekends it was uncomfortable or she stashed it in a purse where its worthless IMO. I challenged her to wear it 16hours a day during the three weeks they were out for Christmas and it became second nature. Now she's uncomfortable for the 7 hours she's at school and doesn't have it.

A little more stopping power equals going thru walls to neighbors house, kids room, etc... Calculate the longest shot in your house down a hall, stairs whatever and shoot your Mossie with number 8s at a piece of actual meat like cheap pork ham and see what it does at 10,15, or 30 feet. You should already know if you have shot a turkey at 10 yards lol.Now go get a piece of 1/2 plywood and 3 inches insulation and vinyl siding to simulate your house exterior, or 2 layers of drywall and insulation for the interior and shoot from a little bit more than that max intruder distance and get back to me.
Many opinions for sure on this and mine may be wrong too. I can quote a bunch of statistics but I'll break it down like this... When you shuck a shell into that Mossberg 98% of your home invaders are diving outta windows to get away before a trigger is depressed. 1.99% of those left too intent on doing you harm are scrambling to leave when the first shot is fired. The other .1% that are soooo hopped up on something, are worthy of a reload and unless there's more than 3 of them (infinitesimally unlikely) you killed the first three with your two shots.

All those guns are fine choices and if you decide on a model be sure to check used LEO at some places online. I had several models that I have either directly purchased from a LEOs ( they were allowed to sell or keep their own guns) that have not been fired much more than break-in or from a dealer. One of the guys I teach with was a Class 3 FFL so he got a lot of offers. For example one of the S&W 40C guns I HAD the mags were beat to hell on the bottoms but the feed ramp looked brand new... After digging into it they were owned by a local Community college and when they went to the range annually they did dry fire reload exercises on a concrete pad with their carry gun but all shot qual with a couple of "Designated Range guns" exactly the same gun but the RSO /instructor didn't want them scratching and beating up all their guns. WTH but the end result was they had 10 guns with ragged mags but very little use. Most agencies have dropped back to ridiculous levels of annual Qual or practice rounds ( for example my brother's agency and the agency where my business is located offers 50 Rounds for practice and 30 for Qual ANNUALLY)! You know how many most of them use? 30 for Qual. and that equals a 5year old turn in with max 200 rounds down the pipe.
Look around and you may be able to buy two nice used LEO turn-ins for the cost of one new in box. The other advantage is they will already have tritium night sights and possibly lights on them.

When I teach a CC class one of the things I do is put on about 7 or 8 guns I USED to have in various holsters and greet everyone at 730-8am, start class, and around 9AM ask how many people talked to me (my last class at my firestation was 14 students including 1 active and 1 retired LEO) and how many guns do they think I have on. Full disclaimer Im 6'2" and 280 ish so I'll be able to conceal a 229 or 226 appendix with out printing cause of my belly. When I take out 2 1911's, a Sig 226, a 229, Smith 40C, .357 Mag snub, a ruger .380 with laser from my "cell phone pouch clearly visible) a Keltec .380 from a pocket holster, and then the Coup de gras I pulled out my .50 Desert Eagle I USED to have from a shoulder holster.
Nobody has a clue including guys who are trained to look for stuff like that. I've done it with a regular microfiber t shirt under and a patterned button up shirt over the guns. If I can carry that many then you can figure out how to carry 1.
I have unfortunately recently lost all of the aforementioned guns in a terrible boating accident along with many of my Volnation friends.
Again sorry for the long post, bottom line is you can carry whatever you feel like once you get used to it.

Question: what is LEO? I assume its aftermarket used by law enforcement from the way you talk about it. Where can I find something like this?

 

[bag12day]

Question: what is LEO? I assume its aftermarket used by law enforcement from the way you talk about it. Where can I find something like this?

LOL...Sorry that was lazy shorthand for Law Enforcement Officer and I bastardized it to say any LEO firearm would be LEO.
I do business with a multi location company called Lawmans supply but I don't think they will sell to just anyone unless you have credentials. Like I said you can get some really good deals on something IF you know what you want and you are comfortable with the condition assessment you see ( ie Good condition means Good to you).
Search the Google for Police trade ins for your area or if you have a local gun store most will do a transfer for $20-40 and you can buy from an online like below and have it shipped to your FFL close to your house.

Police Trade-Ins - Buds Gun Shop
Used Gun Collection | Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore: Police Trade-Ins and Used Guns for Sale Online

 

[bag12day]

So just to add a little more info to the above Police trade ins are an agency decides to buy new guys for a variety of reasons up to and including:
Holy crap we got money in the budget lets buy new guns.
Some MFG issue that is not being taken care of to their satisfaction.
Our old guns are Gen 4 Glocks and Glock offered us Gen 5s for $100 off.
Our Armorer is tired of replacing springs on these H&K USPs so we are gonna buy Berettas

Saved the best for last cause I am very familar with this agency.
We just aren't stopping enough people with our Beretta 9MMs hopped up on drugs (late 90s IIRC) so we are gonna go to .45 ACPs AND True story about 2 years later (NC State Highway Patrol) we have to go back to .40 in S&W because officers with small hands couldn't qual with heavy hitting .45s then they moved from the Smith to a SIG due to some jam issues in the Smith and went to a Sig P226 chambered in .357 Sig in mid 2014 and as of January 2020 they have once again changed to and have ordered 2000 P320s chambered in .357 Sig. All that adds up to a lot of opportunity to purchase a trade in at a substantial discount from a wholesaler. I bought several of these trade ins from NCSHP because usually they are allowed to purchase their firearm for the trade in value.
Some general advice for trade ins try to get from a smaller agency cause they generally see a lot less use or a big State agency because they have armorers that change springs barrels sights etc well before they show "bad use". NEVER EVER NEVER EVER buy any gun listed as NY compliant or from NY as most have 10-12 lb triggers and are terrible! Some of the guys over in the Second amend thread can really help with questions you may want to ask or things to check for.

 

[Caculator]

Taurus G2C in 9mm. My EDC.
Under $200 and a solid, well built pistol is an easy to conceal profile.

 

[YankeeVol]

So just to add a little more info to the above Police trade ins are an agency decides to buy new guys for a variety of reasons up to and including:
Holy crap we got money in the budget lets buy new guns.
Some MFG issue that is not being taken care of to their satisfaction.
Our old guns are Gen 4 Glocks and Glock offered us Gen 5s for $100 off.
Our Armorer is tired of replacing springs on these H&K USPs so we are gonna buy Berettas

Saved the best for last cause I am very familar with this agency.
We just aren't stopping enough people with our Beretta 9MMs hopped up on drugs (late 90s IIRC) so we are gonna go to .45 ACPs AND True story about 2 years later (NC State Highway Patrol) we have to go back to .40 in S&W because officers with small hands couldn't qual with heavy hitting .45s then they moved from the Smith to a SIG due to some jam issues in the Smith and went to a Sig P226 chambered in .357 Sig in mid 2014 and as of January 2020 they have once again changed to and have ordered 2000 P320s chambered in .357 Sig. All that adds up to a lot of opportunity to purchase a trade in at a substantial discount from a wholesaler. I bought several of these trade ins from NCSHP because usually they are allowed to purchase their firearm for the trade in value.
Some general advice for trade ins try to get from a smaller agency cause they generally see a lot less use or a big State agency because they have armorers that change springs barrels sights etc well before they show "bad use". NEVER EVER NEVER EVER buy any gun listed as NY compliant or from NY as most have 10-12 lb triggers and are terrible! Some of the guys over in the Second amend thread can really help with questions you may want to ask or things to check for.

Comeon now, everyone knows NY compliant guns are safer!

 

[bag12day]

Comeon now, everyone knows NY compliant guns are safer!

They are most certainly safer since you need a pair of vice grips, titanium fingers, and a hammer to make it go off. Nobody has been harmed by any ny style trigger including criminals, targets, animals or self inflicted injuries. A buddy ( one of the ffl guys born and raised in South Carolina) ordered several Kahr pistols for class demos and resell when kahr was just starting out. He ordered two with ny triggers thinking they were gonna be smooth, Italian, and like silk. He honestly never asked when they were ordering it was literally “ what’s a ny trigger.” Me and the other guy “idk order 1or 2 and see if you like them”. They were like $75 wholesale more so we thought maybe they worked them...
We thought it was a fricking joke of a bad gun until he called the distributor and then kahr and when they explained what exactly it what it was he was like hell naw send me some trigger kits I wouldn’t give these guns to my customers much less sell them lol. The provided them at no charge even though he told them his stupidity was why he ordered ny triggers ie listening to his friends lol

 

[bag12day]

@barrythesnout Just got an email flyer for a S&W shield 2.0 in 9mm WITH an integrated Crimson trace Laser from a local to me dealer for $359 on their Smith and Wesson days sales. Deals are out there if you look around. I would guess shipped to your FFL and their $25 transfer fee all in you would be in the $420 range since I do not think Perrys would charge NC sales tax (7.75%) since its going out of state? I actually went to school with Barry Perry and they run a solid place. FYI this where I have gotten several of my Sigs on sale before I lost them in a boating accident.
S&w Shield 2.0 9mm 3.1" Bl | Perry's Gun Shop

 

[VOLinAL]

@barrythesnout Just got an email flyer for a S&W shield 2.0 in 9mm WITH an integrated Crimson trace Laser from a local to me dealer for $359 on their Smith and Wesson days sales. Deals are out there if you look around. I would guess shipped to your FFL and their $25 transfer fee all in you would be in the $420 range since I do not think Perrys would charge NC sales tax (7.75%) since its going out of state? I actually went to school with Barry Perry and they run a solid place. FYI this where I have gotten several of my Sigs on sale before I lost them in a boating accident.
S&w Shield 2.0 9mm 3.1" Bl | Perry's Gun Shop

That is a good deal. Although, unless you can find a laser combo integrated into the grip, I wouldnt recommend one.

 

[theFallGuy]

I have very little experience with handguns. I've owned rifles and shotguns my entire life, and I'm looking for a home defense weapon/concealed carry. Looking for some suggestions if anyone is willing to offer some advice.

I've been looking mostly at 9 mm semiautomatic so far. Am I going down the wrong path? It doesn't seem like a revolver would be very conducive to concealed carry.

GLOCK G19 Gen4 9mm Compact 15-Round Pistol | Academy

 

[bag12day]

GLOCK G19 Gen4 9mm Compact 15-Round Pistol | Academy

Not sure if this is a good buy where you are at and it may be in Tenn, but it is a Gen 4 and since I can get a Gen 5 for $509 from a couple of outlets NIB Gen 4s will be had for sub $449 prices in NC. I personally have all the Glocks I will ever own before I lost them in a terrible boat accident but even before the Gen 5 came out $500 was the selling price almost anywhere for a Gen 4 G17,19 or G26 ( G18s are a little more ). That's like trying to charge MSRP for the new 2019 car into the 2020 car models.

 

[theFallGuy]

Not sure if this is a good buy where you are at and it may be in Tenn, but it is a Gen 4 and since I can get a Gen 5 for $509 from a couple of outlets NIB Gen 4s will be had for sub $449 prices in NC. I personally have all the Glocks I will ever own before I lost them in a terrible boat accident but even before the Gen 5 came out $500 was the selling price almost anywhere for a Gen 4 G17,19 or G26 ( G18s are a little more ). That's like trying to charge MSRP for the new 2019 car into the 2020 car models.

I didn't pay attention to the Gen and I wasn't particularly pointing out the price. I was just suggesting a glock. They are reliable weapons and you don't have to fiddle with some stupid safety system when your life is on the line.

 

[bag12day]

I didn't pay attention to the Gen and I wasn't particularly pointing out the price. I was just suggesting a glock. They are reliable weapons and you don't have to fiddle with some stupid safety system when your life is on the line.

Absolutely and as stated earlier Glock is coming around to improved guide rods, barrels, sights, trigger improvements, etc...! I used to say if you take a $500 Glock add the above items for $250 then you are in the ballpark of a $800 SIG which has all that.
NONE of my daily carries will have external safeties and my merely personal preference but as I pointed out re police trade ins unless you are a range rat and go ALOT to develop muscle memory (95% of folks don't) for these steps: assess, access and move any garment, grip, flip/thumb/unsnap/depress/rock against any retention device, begin to draw, finger along slide out of trigger, index, subordinate hand placement, sight picture, thumb to applicable safety, remember to remove said safety, engage target and depress trigger. An external safety is just one more thing to slow down reaction time if you don't practice a lot and under duress. Its one more thing I want in my favor if someone wants to harm me or my friends/family.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Absolutely and as stated earlier Glock is coming around to improved guide rods, barrels, sights, trigger improvements, etc...! I used to say if you take a $500 Glock add the above items for $250 then you are in the ballpark of a $800 SIG which has all that.
NONE of my daily carries will have external safeties and my merely personal preference but as I pointed out re police trade ins unless you are a range rat and go ALOT to develop muscle memory (95% of folks don't) for these steps: assess, access and move any garment, grip, flip/thumb/unsnap/depress/rock against any retention device, begin to draw, finger along slide out of trigger, index, subordinate hand placement, sight picture, thumb to applicable safety, remember to remove said safety, engage target and depress trigger. An external safety is just one more thing to slow down reaction time if you don't practice a lot and under duress. Its one more thing I want in my favor if someone wants to harm me or my friends/family.

Side note.
It’s been noted by many instructors the influence of no external safeties has been a slight detriment to over all reaction time concerning carbines. You’d be surprised by the number of people who fail to put their carbines on fire and go straight for the trigger and then remember the safety. Neither is right or wrong, just food for thought.

 

[Tri-CitiesVol]

I didn't pay attention to the Gen and I wasn't particularly pointing out the price. I was just suggesting a glock. They are reliable weapons and you don't have to fiddle with some stupid safety system when your life is on the line.

You forgot to mention how ugly they are.

 

[Jxn Vol]

My home defense: Judge with alternating 410 and 45. And a Remington 870.

I carry a Taurus 38 snub nose revolver.

I keep a M&P 380 in my truck.

 

[JCHateSteve]

You forgot to mention how ugly they are.

While I'm not a Glock guy, I've never understood this. They look Spartan for sure. But there isn't anything wrong with that. It's the ergonomics that turn me off to them. Everytime I hold one I feel like I'm shooting a 2x4.