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SLICKYINC

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.357 Sig already has deep penetration as it is (no TWSS please) and it's a good chance the Underwood sails through the target with the higher velocity.

The XTP round should be fine, but I'm more concerned about what's behind a target rather than overall numbers.

*Note: Not a spokesman for Federal...
That's all true, but I switched from 9mm to the .357 sig because of the energy. I want to get as much performance from it as it is designed to handle. Made the decision to give up a couple of rounds for more energy, hyrdrostatic shock and cavity volume. I might just get a few boxes and check it out along with the 125 grain Corbon. The Corbon isn't as hot but it's hotter than most.
 

hndog609

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Federal: Muzzle energy 513 ft lbs. Velocity 1360 fps

Speer: 506. 1375

Underwood: 604. 1475
I like velocity/energy numbers as much as the next guy but what happens when those numbers actually hit the target matters. Now any given gel test isn't the end all be all but check this out.

ScreenHunter_2959 Jan. 18 09.42.jpg

Note the relationship between consistent penetration and expansion. The HST had the most consistent penetration other than the Critical Duty and both did so right at the top of the FBI standard. The HST clobbered the CD in expansion however. It is my theory that the lighter XTP round used in the Underwood load you cite would probably expand more violently but beyond that there's just no telling. Hornady makes a good bullet and I wouldn't be afraid to carry that round. In any case the HST's consistency, penetration and expansion (at least in this test) is damn near perfect.

As side observations I know very little (and zero personal experience) about Sig's relatively new bespoke line of ammo but it performed very well in this particular test. Also a shout out to the humble Rem UMC jhp which punched way above it's price in this test.
 

GreyWolf1129

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Brace yourself, @Grand Vol...

Federal .45 HST 230 grain:
850 - 900 fps (depends on barrel).
POI energy just shy of thermonuclear out to 50 yards.
14" - 15" penetration (FBI gel).
.89" - .90" expansion.
Retained weight average 230 grains.

Accuracy averaged <2.5 inches at 25 yards.

Fudds - 1, Metric Noodleheads - 0.
 

GreyWolf1129

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@Grand Vol

Accepting that I am never going to be a multi-caliber rifle owner (I have no use for anything beyond a patrol / HD rifle, for which the 5.56 is well-suited), and also accepting the fact that I am more or less married to Colt...

I ordered a Hogue grip for my long range AR today, just to keep things consistent. I already have one on my patrol rifle. But the one I ordered today comes with battery storage (CR123, etc) in the grip, so I will put that one on my patrol rifle, and move the existing one to my long range AR, since it only has a scope on it.

Just thought it was a neat idea to have spare batteries for the light / optic right there in the grip. FWIW, I've never had an instance of battery failure in a duty situation, but I make it a habit to change them out at 50% of their advertised service life, and there have been times when we spent an hour or more clearing, for example, a school after a 3 a.m. alarm. Let me add how valuable the hair missiles are for those.

I don't get called out for SRT / HRWS details much anymore. Maybe three or four times a year. I'm on the backup team to the backup team now. But still, nice gadget to have.

It's on the Hogue site. You being you, give it a look. I'd like your opinion before I take it to the SRT Commander.

I'll let you know how functional it is when I get it, install it, and play with it.
 

Grand Vol

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@Grand Vol

Accepting that I am never going to be a multi-caliber rifle owner (I have no use for anything beyond a patrol / HD rifle, for which the 5.56 is well-suited), and also accepting the fact that I am more or less married to Colt...

I ordered a Hogue grip for my long range AR today, just to keep things consistent. I already have one on my patrol rifle. But the one I ordered today comes with battery storage (CR123, etc) in the grip, so I will put that one on my patrol rifle, and move the existing one to my long range AR, since it only has a scope on it.

Just thought it was a neat idea to have spare batteries for the light / optic right there in the grip. FWIW, I've never had an instance of battery failure in a duty situation, but I make it a habit to change them out at 50% of their advertised service life, and there have been times when we spent an hour or more clearing, for example, a school after a 3 a.m. alarm. Let me add how valuable the hair missiles are for those.

I don't get called out for SRT / HRWS details much anymore. Maybe three or four times a year. I'm on the backup team to the backup team now. But still, nice gadget to have.

It's on the Hogue site. You being you, give it a look. I'd like your opinion before I take it to the SRT Commander.

I'll let you know how functional it is when I get it, install it, and play with it.
Grips are something I almost flatly refuse to give advice on since they are entirely on the bearer. The somewhat generational saying of "you do you" applies in choosing a grip.

Having said that to say this, having a grip storage isn't a bad thing as, like you, I've never had a battery go dead on me. But better to have and not need...
 

GreyWolf1129

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Grips are something I almost flatly refuse to give advice on since they are entirely on the bearer. The somewhat generational saying of "you do you" applies in choosing a grip.

Having said that to say this, having a grip storage isn't a bad thing as, like you, I've never had a battery go dead on me. But better to have and not need...
Thanks, and I agree on "to each their own" when it comes to grips. I put a Hogue grip on my first AR since I have Hogue grips on 2 of my 3 .45's, and really like them. Plus it was only about $25, so I figured no big loss if I didn't like it. But I did, what with the overmolded rubber and the finger grooves. No idea if it improved accuracy, but the gun just felt more "natural" with that grip.

Went to the Hogue site to buy a 2nd one (finally), and saw the one with battery storage in the grip. Figured why not and reached out to you to see if you had any expo or opinion on it.

Should be here by the end of the week. I'll mount it, rattle it around, shoot with it, and then let you know.

EDIT: You ignored #7304. Metric guilt?

:cool:
 

Grand Vol

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@Grand Vol any suggestions on .308 ammo, bulk. I'm seeing quite a bit of 80's era surplus on SGA. Is that stuff decent?
The MEN and Hirtenberger stuff is good. Anything Lake City will be fine. The South Korean stuff is made by PMC so should be good to go. I've never had a problem with anything Prvi Partizan either.
 

GreyWolf1129

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I love me some Woodford Reserve and some Canada Dry. Come at me bro.
I like both, but separately. When I drink whiskey, bourbon, shine, whatever...I let the liquor stand on it's own. Well, with ice. But you could mix WR with cat urine and it would (probably) still be good, so...

As for the Kentucky long rifle, you have any idea how hard it is to get the flash pan and powder hole lined up exactly right?

Apparently GV thinks that anyone who still has an FSB on their AR, or still believes the .45 ACP is the best pistol round out there is also still buying corn cobs instead of Charmin.
 

InVOLuntary

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I like both, but separately. When I drink whiskey, bourbon, shine, whatever...I let the liquor stand on it's own. Well, with ice. But you could mix WR with cat urine and it would (probably) still be good, so...

As for the Kentucky long rifle, you have any idea how hard it is to get the flash pan and powder hole lined up exactly right?

Apparently GV thinks that anyone who still has an FSB on their AR, or still believes the .45 ACP is the best pistol round out there is also still buying corn cobs instead of Charmin.
Shine, I'll sip. I definately go heavy on the whisky when I'm mixing, sometimes just water as the mix.

Just giving you a hard time on the FSB. I have used and like a gas block that has the rail on top for a fold down front site. I've got a little SBR upper with that setup. It's a sweet little setup. GV is a gun snob but he's helped me out a bunch. These guns are like Barbie dolls for men and everyone likes to dress them up to suit their own taste.

As for the .45. I like it and my carry is a .45. I also have a small .40S&W that is a great little pocket gun. GV makes fun of any 40 short and weak.
 

GreyWolf1129

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It's all good. I enjoy the banter in this thread. And GV has been a lot of help to me as well. I just enjoy poking him from time to time, but here lately he's not rising to the bait like he used to.

The shutdown has pretty much put the kabosh on any new purchases, but this too shall pass. I've been logging extra hours at the S.O.; a lot of time on here and WGT; and getting about 10% of my "honey-do" list knocked out.

I enjoy living vicariously through some of you, looking at your builds. My skill level topped out at putting a new grip on my first AR, and even that I almost screwed up. Didn't know about the detent for the selector switch being tucked up in there...

So build away, sip patiently, and let fly. All good here.
 

InVOLuntary

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It's all good. I enjoy the banter in this thread. And GV has been a lot of help to me as well. I just enjoy poking him from time to time, but here lately he's not rising to the bait like he used to.

LOL, he's probably tiring of you. He's looking for fresh meat.

The shutdown has pretty much put the kabosh on any new purchases, but this too shall pass. I've been logging extra hours at the S.O.; a lot of time on here and WGT; and getting about 10% of my "honey-do" list knocked out.

Hopefully that shutdown will end soon. It's not really affecting me but I know it's a nightmare to others.

I enjoy living vicariously through some of you, looking at your builds. My skill level topped out at putting a new grip on my first AR, and even that I almost screwed up. Didn't know about the detent for the selector switch being tucked up in there...

This is my favorite time to build. Too cold to do much outside and it's dark so early. Get a fire going in the wood stove, set up a little table, pour me a little toddy, and get busy. I've built too many and I have no room in the gun safe for any more. I still have a new AR15 lower in there that I'll probably give to my 19YO and help him build it. I want him to pay for whatever he builds it with so he'll be invested in it.

So build away, sip patiently, and let fly. All good here.

Sipping here. You do the same.
 

DancingOutlaw

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The MEN and Hirtenberger stuff is good. Anything Lake City will be fine. The South Korean stuff is made by PMC so should be good to go. I've never had a problem with anything Prvi Partizan either.
I believe both of those are Berdan primed if brass resell is considered in your purchase process. Prvi and LC are boxer primed.
 

Grand Vol

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I believe both of those are Berdan primed if brass resell is considered in your purchase process. Prvi and LC are boxer primed.
The MEN is Boxer primed:

20 round box - 7.62x51 NATO 147 grain FMJ-BT Ammo Made in Germany by MEN - MEN762A | SGAmmo.com

The Hirtenberger is Berdan primed with a steel jacket:

960 Round Case - 7.62x51 NATO 146 grain FMJ Hirtenberger Surplus Ammo 1970s Vintage | SGAmmo.com

Didn't take that into account, but still decent stuff from everything I read.
 

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