Gun control debate (merged)

[Vol8188]

A national registry is already a thing?

A state registry. On the national level the atf keeps records but they claim that they’re “not searchable”. The form 4473 specifically

 

[C-south]

If things were to get so bad that an amendment was the only recourse, then it would basically repeal the 2a as it is currently being interpreted.

There’s nothing to interpret. If it got that bad it would probably start being exercised with its primary intent.

 

[85SugarVol]

Why would someone purchase a new gun with the intention of immediately turning around and selling it for less than they paid.

They wouldn't. You know they wouldn't.

And you know I'm not talking about Buford from Wartburg selling his 5 year old gun to his nephew.

They wouldn’t. And they don’t. It’s a losing proposition. That’s the point.

No one is buying guns new in Indiana and traveling to sell them at a markup to 17 year olds in Chicago.

 

[85SugarVol]

Really?

Of course not.

 

[85SugarVol]

If things were to get so bad that an amendment was the only recourse, then it would basically repeal the 2a as it is currently being interpreted.

And what would that look like?

 

[hog88]

Of course not.

I’ve seen crazier stuff.

 

[85SugarVol]

I’ve seen crazier stuff.

I was just riffing on the idea that there is this market to buy guns at retail and then turn around and sell them for even more.

 

[85SugarVol]

.

 

[luthervol]

A state registry. On the national level the atf keeps records but they claim that they’re “not searchable”. The form 4473 specifically

So how does a gun confiscated from a crime in OK get traced to the original purchaser in GA?
And do you think that it should be traceable?

 

[luthervol]

They wouldn’t. And they don’t. It’s a losing proposition. That’s the point.

No one is buying guns new in Indiana and traveling to sell them at a markup to 17 year olds in Chicago.

Sure they are.

 

[Vol8188]

So how does a gun confiscated from a crime in OK get traced to the original purchaser in GA?
And do you think that it should be traceable?

No I don’t. Did the original purchases commit the crime? If not, why are you after them?

I believe Georgia is one of the states with a state registry. Idk the details of when and how they share with other agencies but I’m sure they do

 

[85SugarVol]

Sure they are.

The 17 year olds in Chicago are not even paying retail for theirs. They are certainly not paying a markup.

Do you honestly think the kids in Chicago are paying $500+ for the Glocks they use?

 

[luthervol]

I was just riffing on the idea that there is this market to buy guns at retail and then turn around and sell them for even more.

Please.
Do you think someone who wants a particular gun that costs 800 at Walmart but is unable to legally purchase, would be willing to pay 900 for that gun from someone who could legally purchase?

 

[luthervol]

No I don’t. Did the original purchases commit the crime? If not, why are you after them?

I believe Georgia is one of the states with a state registry. Idk the details of when and how they share with other agencies but I’m sure they do

But didn't you just claim that the guns are already traceable?

The original purchaser certainly committed a crime if he sold the gun illegally.

 

[hog88]

So how does a gun confiscated from a crime in OK get traced to the original purchaser in GA?
And do you think that it should be traceable?

When a manufacturer sells a gun to a distributor they have to keep a record of that transaction forever or until they go out of business. (If they go out of business they send all of those records to the ATF) When the distributor sells the gun to the retailer they have to keep the record of transaction forever. When the retailer sells the gun to a person they have to keep the 4473 forever (or when go out of business send them to the ATF).

So when a gun is recovered at a crime scene law enforcement goes to the manufacture, finds the distributor, then finds the retailer who then pulls the 4473 and tells them who purchased the gun.

 

[85SugarVol]

Please.
Do you think someone who wants a particular gun that costs 800 at Walmart but is unable to legally purchase, would be willing to pay 900 for that gun from someone who could legally purchase?

.

 

[Orangeslice13]

What does it matter if they are here legally or not? They were still human beings living on earth. Are their lives worth less to you because they aren't American citizens?

Who likely brought the illegal firearm with him.
In fact that’s probably where a lot of the illegal firearms come from but the open border crowd doesn’t seem too concerned about it. Oddly the same crowd wants to take away self defense from the responsible crowd. Fing stupid.

 

[Vol8188]

But didn't you just claim that the guns are already traceable?

The original purchaser certainly committed a crime if he sold the gun illegally.

What does “sold illegally” even mean?

All new purchases require the atf form 4473. Which are compiled. As to when that’s shared, I can’t say. But I can say the atf 100% has that data. I just don’t know their personal guidelines

 

[Vol8188]

When a manufacturer sells a gun to a distributor they have to keep a record of that transaction forever or until they go out of business. (If they go out of business they send all of those records to the ATF) When the distributor sells the gun to the retailer they have to keep the record of transaction forever. When the retailer sells the gun to a person they have to keep the 4473 forever (or when go out of business send them to the ATF).

So when a gun is recovered at a crime scene law enforcement goes to the manufacture, finds the distributor, then finds the retailer who then pulls the 4473 and tells them who purchased the gun.

Thank you. I didn’t fully understand how that worked. But I did understand all my new purchases were being recorded on the 4473

 

[luthervol]

When a manufacturer sells a gun to a distributor they have to keep a record of that transaction forever or until they go out of business. (If they go out of business they send all of those records to the ATF) When the distributor sells the gun to the retailer they have to keep the record of transaction forever. When the retailer sells the gun to a person they have to keep the 4473 forever (or when go out of business send them to the ATF).

So when a gun is recovered at a crime scene law enforcement goes to the manufacture, finds the distributor, then finds the retailer who then pulls the 4473 and tells them who purchased the gun.

That's pretty damn close to a national registry, just much more inefficient.

 

[85SugarVol]

If things were to get so bad that an amendment was the only recourse, then it would basically repeal the 2a as it is currently being interpreted.

And what would that look like?

This is what I’m interested in @luthervol

 

[hog88]

That's pretty damn close to a national registry, just much more inefficient.

then be happy

 

[luthervol]

The 17 year olds in Chicago are not even paying retail for theirs. They are certainly not paying a markup.

Do you honestly think the kids in Chicago are paying $500+ for the Glocks they use?

So where do the 17 year old kids in Chicago get a cheap Glock?

 

[hog88]

Thank you. I didn’t fully understand how that worked. But I did understand all my new purchases were being recorded on the 4473

I lost all my guns in the 2010 flood and if I ever did buy another gun I’d never buy exclusively from private sellers to avoid the 4473, that would be unethical.

 

[C-south]

That's pretty damn close to a national registry, just much more inefficient.

It’s suppose to be. There are laws that say the ATF can’t have a registry.