Gun control debate (merged)

#25,251
#25,251
Vol8188 said:
If these things were such a problem it would show up in the overall homicide rate. Yet the overall white homicide rate is equivalent to that of Europe, despite massive access to guns. So why are you convinced guns are the problem?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, and who does the research? And while you're at it, guess why facial recognition software makes so many errors when identifying minority faces, especially African-Americans. Guess who programs the AI face recognition. You see, as always, there are lies, damn lies, and then there is statistics. Ignoring how it is the pales do the bulk 0f mass killings (and who they usually target), the numbers that die in most such events, and other areas under-reported upon, and just plain not included. But never-mind, I've been down this rabbit hole often enough, and it just repeats a basic truth: People welcome the truth only when it flatters them and/or denigrates those they dislike.
 
#25,252
#25,252
WoodsmanVol said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and who does the research? And while you're at it, guess why facial recognition software makes so many errors when identifying minority faces, especially African-Americans. Guess who programs the AI face recognition. You see, as always, there are lies, damn lies, and then there is statistics. Ignoring how it is the pales do the bulk 0f mass killings (and who they usually target), the numbers that die in most such events, and other areas under-reported upon, and just plain not included. But never-mind, I've been down this rabbit hole often enough, and it just repeats a basic truth: People welcome the truth only when it flatters them and/or denigrates those they dislike.
Click to expand...

Year after year, the majority of all homicides are commited by black Americans and against black Americans. That's a simple fact. Despite them being less than 13% of the population. If what you’re saying were true (that they’re all just wrongfully convicted) that would mean that white men are coming into black neighborhoods and shooting these black men, and then somehow confessing their black neighbors to blame a black person over 75% of the time (13x4=52% and a 75% reduction would make the numbers 13/13 and equally representative). That’s simple insane

Yes, those are obviously included in the homicide rate. If you kill 10 people out of 100k people, the rate would be 10/100k. I'm not talking about the number of people who commit homicide, but rather the rate. But either way the data would show the same problem.

Regardless of who it flatters and/or denigrates, the truth is that the majority of all homicides in this country are committed by black people. Yet gun laws already prohibit the ownership of guns by a larger % of the black male population than white male population. The white male homicide rate is on par with Europe.

So why do you believe gun laws and/or guns to be the problem?

This would be like hypothetically blaming alcohol or cars if white people were 99% of the DUI problem.
 
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#25,253
#25,253
WoodsmanVol said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and who does the research? And while you're at it, guess why facial recognition software makes so many errors when identifying minority faces, especially African-Americans. Guess who programs the AI face recognition. You see, as always, there are lies, damn lies, and then there is statistics. Ignoring how it is the pales do the bulk 0f mass killings (and who they usually target), the numbers that die in most such events, and other areas under-reported upon, and just plain not included. But never-mind, I've been down this rabbit hole often enough, and it just repeats a basic truth: People welcome the truth only when it flatters them and/or denigrates those they dislike.
Click to expand...

If I were to give you my honest answer on were your going wrong in your thinking (I know honest discussion isn’t your style) it’s that you’re likely being mislead by all of the fake mass shooting data,

For example NPR has done really good reporting on this. The two articles I’d check out are The School Shootings that Weren’t and another about how despite increased coverage, school shootings are down from their peak in the 90s.

If you want I can link either or both. But the simple conclusion is that there’s a lot more reported school shootings than actual school shootings and far more media coverage
 
#25,254
#25,254
WoodsmanVol said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and who does the research? And while you're at it, guess why facial recognition software makes so many errors when identifying minority faces, especially African-Americans. Guess who programs the AI face recognition. You see, as always, there are lies, damn lies, and then there is statistics. Ignoring how it is the pales do the bulk 0f mass killings (and who they usually target), the numbers that die in most such events, and other areas under-reported upon, and just plain not included. But never-mind, I've been down this rabbit hole often enough, and it just repeats a basic truth: People welcome the truth only when it flatters them and/or denigrates those they dislike.
Click to expand...
What? Since when have white mass shootings been under counted? And I am pretty dang sure white people havent performed most of them. Gangs do most of the mass shootings, they just dont get reported because no one cares.

AI doesnt count mass shootings.
 
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#25,255
#25,255
LouderVol said:
What? Since when have white mass shootings been under counted? And I am pretty dang sure white people havent performed most of them. Gangs do most of the mass shootings, they just dont get reported because no one cares.

AI doesnt count mass shootings.
Click to expand...

He just doesn’t understand the term homicide rate. He apparently thinks if you kill ten people in one event that it’s just counted as “one homicide”
 
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#25,256
#25,256
Vol8188 said:
Year after year, the majority of all homicides are commited by black Americans and against black Americans. That's a simple fact. Despite them being less than 13% of the population. If what you’re saying were true (that they’re all just wrongfully convicted) that would mean that white men are coming into black neighborhoods and shooting these black men, and then somehow confessing their black neighbors to blame a white person over 75% of the time (13x4=52% and a 75% reduction would make the numbers 13/13 and equally representative). That’s simple insane
Yes, those are obviously included in the homicide rate. If you kill 10 people out of 100k people, the rate would be 10/100k. I'm not talking about the number of people who commit homicide, but rather the rate. But either way the data would show the same problem.
Regardless of who it flatters and/or denigrates, the truth is that the majority of all homicides in this country are committed by black people. Yet gun laws already prohibit the ownership of guns by a larger % of the black male population than white male population. The white male homicide rate is on par with Europe.
So why do you believe gun laws and/or guns to be the problem?
This would be like hypothetically blaming alcohol or cars if white people were 99% of the DUI problem.
Click to expand...

Peddle your biased horse sheep elsewhere. Depending on factors a statistician opts to include and exclude, you can make statistics say whatever you want. Just as it is with facial recognition software being so often inaccurate when it comes to non-White faces due to bias, same thing with the stats you want to claim is pure and holy. Now, shoo fly, I got no time for people like you who simply want to justify your bigotry. You and yours just like biased church denominations, pick and choose a piece of verse (stat) here and a piece there and interpret it out of context to, presume to show proof you're right. Thus to justify and perpetuate your bias and hatred towards these who don't look like or think like you. Been there, done that, so shoo fly, shoo.

-- Expanded Homicide Data Table 6
-- https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
 
#25,257
#25,257
LouderVol said:
What? Since when have white mass shootings been under counted? And I am pretty dang sure white people havent performed most of them. Gangs do most of the mass shootings, they just dont get reported because no one cares.
AI doesnt count mass shootings.
Click to expand...

There you go, detour and gang tackle, I can always count on your folks to repeat the tactic.
 
#25,258
#25,258
WoodsmanVol said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and who does the research? And while you're at it, guess why facial recognition software makes so many errors when identifying minority faces, especially African-Americans. Guess who programs the AI face recognition. You see, as always, there are lies, damn lies, and then there is statistics. Ignoring how it is the pales do the bulk 0f mass killings (and who they usually target), the numbers that die in most such events, and other areas under-reported upon, and just plain not included. But never-mind, I've been down this rabbit hole often enough, and it just repeats a basic truth: People welcome the truth only when it flatters them and/or denigrates those they dislike.
Click to expand...

What a weird way to say all black people look the same …… racist.
 
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#25,260
#25,260
WoodsmanVol said:
Peddle your biased horse sheep elsewhere. Depending on factors a statistician opts to include and exclude, you can make statistics say whatever you want. Just as it is with facial recognition software being so often inaccurate when it comes to non-White faces due to bias, same thing with the stats you want to claim is pure and holy. Now, shoo fly, I got no time for people like you who simply want to justify your bigotry. You and yours just like biased church denominations, pick and choose a piece of verse (stat) here and a piece there and interpret it out of context to, presume to show proof you're right. Thus to justify and perpetuate your bias and hatred towards these who don't look like or think like you. Been there, done that, so shoo fly, shoo.

-- Expanded Homicide Data Table 6
-- https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
Click to expand...
Not sure how your links are helping your arguments. I dont see anything suggesting there is unreportijg going on.
 
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#25,261
#25,261
WoodsmanVol said:
Peddle your biased horse sheep elsewhere. Depending on factors a statistician opts to include and exclude, you can make statistics say whatever you want. Just as it is with facial recognition software being so often inaccurate when it comes to non-White faces due to bias, same thing with the stats you want to claim is pure and holy. Now, shoo fly, I got no time for people like you who simply want to justify your bigotry. You and yours just like biased church denominations, pick and choose a piece of verse (stat) here and a piece there and interpret it out of context to, presume to show proof you're right. Thus to justify and perpetuate your bias and hatred towards these who don't look like or think like you. Been there, done that, so shoo fly, shoo.

-- Expanded Homicide Data Table 6
-- https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
Click to expand...

How in the world did you think this helped your argument? It clearly shows white people despite being a much larger population are 3x more likely to be killed by a much smaller segment of the population.

And it’s not about bigotry but rather about finding solutions. If you refuse to even admit there’s a massive and disproportionate probably with violence and homicide in the black community, how do you ever address/solve a problem you won’t even admit exists?
 

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#25,263
#25,263
Vol8188 said:
How in the world did you think this helped your argument? It clearly shows white people despite being a much larger population are 3x more likely to be killed by a much smaller segment of the population.
And it’s not about bigotry but rather about finding solutions. If you refuse to even admit there’s a massive and disproportionate probably with violence and homicide in the black community, how do you ever address/solve a problem you won’t even admit exists?
Click to expand...

I wanted to give you more ammo to exhibit your built in bigotry. Figured it would make you feel better.
 
#25,269
#25,269
Vol8188 said:
Step 1 is you have to accept that it, exists. Do we agree there’s a massive racial disparity in homicides? We can’t fix a problem without first identifying it
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We? And after all you've said over periods of time in this forum, you want me to believe you want to actually fix it. Well, yes, I can believe that. Based on our various exchanges here, your recommendation be genocide.
 
#25,270
#25,270
WoodsmanVol said:
We? And after all you've said over periods of time in this forum, you want me to believe you want to actually fix it. Well, yes, I can believe that. Based on our various exchanges here, your recommendation be genocide.
Click to expand...

Do you accept there is a racial disparity in homicide or no? I’ll gladly lay out my resolution, but you should start by arguing in good faith and accepting reality
 
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#25,271
#25,271
Vol8188 said:
Do you accept there is a racial disparity in homicide or no? I’ll gladly pay out my resolution, but you should start by arguing in good faith and accepting reality
Click to expand...

After all I've seen from you and your henchmen in here, over a good period of time, I recognize this as just another set up for you and they to cackle about. And by now, you should know that Homey don't play dat.
 
#25,272
#25,272
WoodsmanVol said:
After all I've seen from you and your henchmen in here, over a good period of time, I recognize this as just another set up for you and they to cackle about. And by now, you should know that Homey don't play dat.
Click to expand...

If by “homey don’t play dat” you’re referring to “arguing in good faith and accepting reality”, trust me we all know. You’re just here to troll and have no intent in ever engaging in an honest conversation.

But what you’re failing to realize is that you’re only hurting yourself. You should try engaging sometime. You might learn something. Or at a minimum gain the self confidence of knowing you can back up your own positions with facts and logic.
 
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#25,273
#25,273
Vol8188 said:
If by “homey don’t play dat” you’re referring to “arguing in good faith and accepting reality”, trust me we all know. You’re just here to troll and have no intent in ever engaging in an honest conversation.
But what you’re failing to realize is that you’re only hurting yourself. You should try engaging sometime. You might learn something. Or at a minimum gain the self confidence of knowing you can back up your own positions with facts and logic.
Click to expand...

https://media.istockphoto.com/photo...=spLSTrIiwBUkpQi45_Vh99zHwlqDeNCd0apBrcW5eN4=
 
#25,274
#25,274
David Hogg ☮️
@davidhogg111
You have no right to a gun. You are not a militia. When you’re talking about your second amendment rights you’re talking about a states right to have what is today the national guard. The modern interpretation of 2A is a ridiculous fraud pushed for decades by the gun lobby.
5:00 PM · Feb 26, 2023
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What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" does this guy not get?
 
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#25,275
#25,275
Sea Ray said:
What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" does this guy not get?
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No clue. He posts the fallacy of "what is now the National Guard". It was the national guard back then too.

There were regulars, guard, and militia units present during the revolutionary war.

They need to think of it as the Minute Men, not the national guard. Only way for it to be "minute" men is if they are personally armed and ready to go. Or well maybe if the government had a public depot that would be within a minute's time of every person we could discuss that.
 
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