Gun control debate (merged)

#23,326
#23,326
Vol8188 said:
And life insurance accounts for the odds of you or your child dying in a mass shooting. What's your point
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Not everyone gets the same treatment due to multiple factors. Maybe we shouldn’t let every single person have a semi-automatic rifle just because they’re 18.
 
#23,327
#23,327
Volatility said:
I’m not sure a psycho would be willing to go through training/certification, whereas now we have a (flawed) background check. I’m not arguing the free market angle either. Switzerland values the free market like we value sending our tax dollars overseas.

Also figure 1 shows America has way more mass shootings compared to other first world countries.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/01924036.2022.2052126?scroll=top&needAccess=true
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Which other rights require “training and certification”? How many people do you think could pass a basic civics and economics test in order to vote? While I’m sure there are some complete idiots that buy guns the vast majority already have plenty of experience and training. Like others have said in the past, firearm safety use to be taught in schools. Getting a conceal carry permit requires taking a class and then passing a written test as well as a marksmanship test.
 
#23,330
#23,330
Vol8188 said:
You are arguing against the free market though because you attempted to proclaim they had somehow taxed themselves into wealth.

Did you even look at this link before you posted it? It doesn't compare America to any 1 country like the info I provided you. Rather it takes an average of a bunch of other countries and compares us to that average. So no, that does not show that we are have more. Just more than the average of countries they picked.
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I’m not arguing the free market, I’m pointing out that the values of the nations are really different even though both are pro gun.

Again, look at Figure 1. We have way more mass shootings compared to Switzerland. Do you really believe America is safer than Switzerland?1658334775759.jpeg
 
#23,331
#23,331
hog88 said:
We also have the most people on ADD and antidepressant drugs, I’m not saying it’s the drugs but there’s clearly something or multiple things in the American fabric that are causing people to turn to psychotic drugs.
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We’re punishing young boys for being boys now. It’s suddenly a crime for an 8 year old boy to have a lot of energy, so we drug them up while they’re young. It’s just asinine.


C-south said:
Are you saying we should raise the age to join the military?
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The military requires mandatory training to use firearms and constant certification no?
 
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#23,333
#23,333
Volatility said:
I’m not arguing the free market, I’m pointing out that the values of the nations are really different even though both are pro gun.

Again, look at Figure 1. We have way more mass shootings compared to Switzerland. Do you really believe America is safer than Switzerland?View attachment 473947
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The problem with your data is size. It's like saying "The US has more mass shootings than Tennessee". Of course it does. The US is massive. It's by far the largest country (population size) on that list. That's why I gave you per capita states. So per person, more people in Switzerland die from mass shootings.

The population of Switzerland is only about 8 million. Roughly the same as Virginia.

And yes you were trying to say they taxed their way to wealth. That's not a thing.
 
#23,334
#23,334
Volatility said:
We’re punishing young boys for being boys now. It’s suddenly a crime for an 8 year old boy to have a lot of energy, so we drug them up while they’re young. It’s just asinine.



The military requires mandatory training to use firearms and constant certification no?
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Where does an 18 year old that doesn’t join the military go to “train” without first purchasing a firearm? Where does anyone do it?
 
#23,335
#23,335
Volatility said:
Yeah go ahead and tell companies that demographics don’t matter and we’re all the same. Let me know well that works out for you.
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I agree demographics matter. That's why I gave you the white homicide rate earlier. The problem isn't guns.
 
#23,339
#23,339
Volatility said:
We’re punishing young boys for being boys now. It’s suddenly a crime for an 8 year old boy to have a lot of energy, so we drug them up while they’re young. It’s just asinine.



The military requires mandatory training to use firearms and constant certification no?
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Ok so let’s start examining the root of the problem and working to fix that instead of bans or increased restrictions.
 
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#23,340
#23,340
Vol8188 said:
The problem with your data is size. It's like saying "The US has more mass shootings than Tennessee". Of course it does. The US is massive. It's by far the largest country (population size) on that list. That's why I gave you per capita states. So per person, more people in Switzerland die from mass shootings.

The population of Switzerland is only about 8 million. Roughly the same as Virginia.

And yes you were trying to say they taxed their way to wealth. That's not a thing.
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I mean obviously the population sizes aren’t the same. But if you really believe Switzerland is more dangerous than the US for mass shootings, be my guest.

C-south said:
Where does an 18 year old that doesn’t join the military go to “train” without first purchasing a firearm? Where does anyone do it?
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Shooting ranges. But to your point about raising the age, that’s tough to say. I’m not sure I’d be in favor of that.
 
#23,341
#23,341
Volatility said:
I never said guns make people want to commit mass murder. Guns are the vessel. That being said, do you think the Uvalde shooting would’ve happened if access to semi-automatics were restricted to 21+ and/or required a background check, waiting period, training courses etc.?



So what do you think needs to be changed? As far as the “gun control” angle goes, I wouldn’t be upset if semi-automatics were restricted to 21+ unless they’re active duty and/or have extended background checks, waiting period, mandatory training courses etc.
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Absolutely. The shooter was on a binge to kill. He'd acquired a gun or something else one way or another. He could spit across the border with Mexico. He could have easily acquired them on the black market there.

I don't have the time to post what I think would help but I would start by quit giving these kids dangerous drugs to combat made up diseases. These kids brains haven't fully developed and we're pumping chemicals that potentially could alter brain chemistry. Treating symptoms that could be corrected by other means. That's only the tip of the iceberg.

You've absolutely targeted new laws as your solution. New laws won't fix anything. Until people start realizing this, it will continue to happen. A lot is about personal responsibility. When these things happen, the first thing the gun grabbers do is blame the gun. Why not place the blame on the shooter, or perhaps the people who raised him, or perhaps the Dr who poisoned him?
 
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#23,343
#23,343
Volatility said:
I mean obviously the population sizes aren’t the same. But if you really believe Switzerland is more dangerous than the US for mass shootings, be my guest.


Shooting ranges. But to your point about raising the age, that’s tough to say. I’m not sure I’d be in favor of that.
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It’s not a matter of belief but rather statistical fact. You’re more likely to die here from a mass shooting than their.
 
#23,344
#23,344
InVOLuntary said:
Absolutely. The shooter was on a binge to kill. He'd acquired a gun or something else one way or another. He could spit across the border with Mexico. He could have easily acquired them on the black market there.

I don't have the time to post what I think would help but I would start by quit giving these kids dangerous drugs to combat made up diseases. These kids brains haven't fully developed and we're pumping chemicals that potentially could alter brain chemistry. Treating symptoms that could be corrected by other means. That's only the tip of the iceberg.

You've absolutely targeted new laws as your solution. New laws won't fix anything. Until people start realizing this, it will continue to happen. A lot is about personal responsibility. When these things happen, the first thing the gun grabbers do is blame the gun. Why not place the blame on the shooter, or perhaps the people who raised him, or perhaps the Dr who poisoned him?
Click to expand...

So I centered on laws since this was a gun debate thread. But pivoting toward mental health, his was clearly ****. He carried a dead cat around and was nicknamed School Shooter. But it’s not clear what goes into a person’s “mental health”.

I think it’s part genetics, culture/environment and economics (money can solve a lot of problems). You can’t change genetics, but culture/environment can be changed somewhat, especially if you have money.
 
#23,345
#23,345
Volatility said:
So I centered on laws since this was a gun debate thread. But pivoting toward mental health, his was clearly ****. He carried a dead cat around and was nicknamed School Shooter. But it’s not clear what goes into a person’s “mental health”.

I think it’s part genetics, culture/environment and economics (money can solve a lot of problems). You can’t change genetics, but culture/environment can be changed somewhat, especially if you have money.
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He had plenty of money to spend on weapons apparently. 6k goes a long way when you’re in high school
 
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#23,349
#23,349
Let's put out a hypothetical here.... If these shooters that plan these things out knew that someone in the crowd was likely to shoot back, quickly, would they go through with their plans? If these sub-human pieces of **** figured they'd be shot and killed 15 seconds in would it be worth it in their ef'd up minds?
 
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#23,350
#23,350
Volatility said:
Not everyone gets the same treatment due to multiple factors. Maybe we shouldn’t let every single person have a semi-automatic rifle just because they’re 18.
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Only if you tie their other rights to that same standard. Just curious how you would assign that standard. How do you know if its 18/21/25 per individual?
 
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