Gun control debate (merged)

#20,276
#20,276
Vol8188 said:
You don't find it odd that overall homicide was not down? Isn't that the goal of gun control?

If you are right about your own claims, shouldn't they have stated "The strongest evidence is consistent with the claim that the NFA caused reductions in overall homicide rates?
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The goal is to make it lower than it otherwise would have been. And the conclusion was that it accomplished that goal
 
#20,277
#20,277
luthervol said:
The goal is to make it lower than it otherwise would have been. And the conclusion was that it accomplished that goal
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By it you mean homicides? Because that wasn't their conclusion. That's why I specifically highlighted it not saying that.
 
#20,278
#20,278
Vol8188 said:
Yes, and that's almost entirely contained to states with large black populations. We've been through this. Why when we compare countries to states with similar demographics do we get similar outcomes if the problem is guns?

You've yet to address that. It's a serious problem for your argument.
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I listed Kenya and Niger first for a reason.......It's beyond obvious that you are hung up on the "black" issue.
 
#20,279
#20,279
luthervol said:
I listed Kenya and Niger first for a reason.......It's beyond obvious that you are hung up on the "black" issue.
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Because it very clearly disproves your claims. When we look at similar demographics we find similar outcomes regardless of gun policy.
 
#20,280
#20,280
McDad said:
Correct. The graphical data embedded in your link is asserting the totality of deaths and then showing the subset of firearm deaths which is the theme of the opening paragraph. Totals have actually increased slightly. You might want to read the whole piece rather than the opening.
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I did. And the conclusion was that those totals were all lower than they otherwise would have been.
 
#20,281
#20,281
luthervol said:
I did. And the conclusion was that those totals were all lower than they otherwise would have been.
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I don't know what to tell you. The suicide deaths have increased 1500 per year. The homicides have decrease 60+/- (all firearm related).
That reads as a net increase of 1440 deaths per year over the x axis.
 
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#20,282
#20,282
McDad said:
I don't know what to tell you. The suicide deaths have increased 1500 per year. The homicides have decrease 60+/- (all firearm related).
That reads as a net increase of 1440 deaths per year over the x axis.
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It's literally only the gun he cares about.
 
#20,283
#20,283
Vol8188 said:
By it you mean homicides? Because that wasn't their conclusion. That's why I specifically highlighted it not saying that.
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From the linked study..........
In the synthetic control approach that compared the overall homicide trends in Australia pre- and post-NFA with trends from 28 other countries aggregated and weighted to create a counterfactual condition, Bartos et al. (2020) found that the reduction in overall homicide experienced by Australia was about 50 percent larger than would have been expected had Australia not enacted the NFA, although the greatest decline (and deviation in total homicide rates between Australia and the synthetic control) occurred not in 1996 but in 2002, which coincides with the passage of the National Handgun Control Agreement in Australia.
 
#20,284
#20,284
McDad said:
I don't know what to tell you. The suicide deaths have increased 1500 per year. The homicides have decrease 60+/- (all firearm related).
That reads as a net increase of 1440 deaths per year over the x axis.
Click to expand...
In the synthetic control approach that compared the overall homicide trends in Australia pre- and post-NFA with trends from 28 other countries aggregated and weighted to create a counterfactual condition, Bartos et al. (2020) found that the reduction in overall homicide experienced by Australia was about 50 percent larger than would have been expected had Australia not enacted the NFA, although the greatest decline (and deviation in total homicide rates between Australia and the synthetic control) occurred not in 1996 but in 2002, which coincides with the passage of the National Handgun Control Agreement in Australia.
 
#20,285
#20,285
luthervol said:
From the linked study..........
In the synthetic control approach that compared the overall homicide trends in Australia pre- and post-NFA with trends from 28 other countries aggregated and weighted to create a counterfactual condition, Bartos et al. (2020) found that the reduction in overall homicide experienced by Australia was about 50 percent larger than would have been expected had Australia not enacted the NFA, although the greatest decline (and deviation in total homicide rates between Australia and the synthetic control) occurred not in 1996 but in 2002, which coincides with the passage of the National Handgun Control Agreement in Australia.
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you’ve still not told me why it took 6 years? Seems illogical
 
#20,286
#20,286
Big playground win for the 2nd Amendment today. Never too early for kids to learn about what the 2nd amendment does for them.

 
#20,290
#20,290
luthervol said:
In the synthetic control approach that compared the overall homicide trends in Australia pre- and post-NFA with trends from 28 other countries aggregated and weighted to create a counterfactual condition, Bartos et al. (2020) found that the reduction in overall homicide experienced by Australia was about 50 percent larger than would have been expected had Australia not enacted the NFA, although the greatest decline (and deviation in total homicide rates between Australia and the synthetic control) occurred not in 1996 but in 2002, which coincides with the passage of the National Handgun Control Agreement in Australia.
Click to expand...

Maybe the divide is this...I am looking at the actual data provided and comparing to other data provided; the authors/you are looking at some prediction of events compared to the actual data.

I like my way, better.
 
#20,293
#20,293
McDad said:
Let's agree, just for the purposes of advancing the conversation, irrefutable evidence proving the firearm homicide issue is grossly inflated in poor, black areas of America.

Would those like Luther who propose further restricting gun access as a strategy to reduce death be in favor or opposed to more limitations and restrictions in those communities where the issue is most problematic?
Click to expand...

NFW Luther touches this.
 
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