Gun control debate (merged)

#17,326
#17,326
hndog609 said:
What cred you may have been building (honest discussion) flew out the window when you tried to make it about phallus shapes and teddy bears. (Toddlers carry tb's in IWB holsters? Who knew?)

I've always found it interesting how oblivious to their own argument these types of assertions are when reflected. You're basically positively asserting:

1. It can't happen to me. No worries as this is one of the most commonly held fallacies among people in general. (This is in no way limited to possible violent attack of course, optimism bias is just a thing.
OR
2. If something bad does happen the person obviously considers themselves such a badass that potential need for a weapon is superfluous. You know, "I don't need a weapon, if there's three of them I'll Bruce Lee the first guy, Jason Statham the second and then decide if I want to Chuck Norris or Steven Segal the last one. Of course, it's just as likely after the first guy goes down the other two will obviously flee in terror from the sheer awesomeness I exude. Oh, and there's no way I could ever be confronted by anyone else with weapons."

These are both delusions far greater than someone realizing bad things do happen to good people and that they aren't arrogant/deluded enough to assume their badassery will be sufficient for such bad things.
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You missed the third scenario that many Americans would explain to you (and many people on here have expressed the exact same sentiment about covid): I prefer not to live my life in fear crippling enough that I constantly carry weaponry.
 
#17,327
#17,327
OHvol40 said:
It’s a relevant question, answer it or concede you prefer not to know the answer. It’s easy to be apathetic when you ignore things you don’t like.
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No it’s not it’s dumb. Not everyone that owns a gun carries. Many places where people would like to own a gun and carry they aren’t allowed. Guess where violent crimes occur the most. You can go get the numbers to your asinine question yourself. One thing is for certain, an armed person always has a better chance when attacked than if they’re not.
 
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#17,328
#17,328
OHvol40 said:
I’m not talking about rights, what needs to happen or what doesn’t.

I simply asked a question. Does violent crime increase or decrease relative to gun ownership numbers? If you prefer not to answer there is no need to respond.
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I did answer, even provided links.stop being obtuse.

With gun ownership staying constant we have seen a slight increase in violent crimes. Of course there is nothing saying causation or even much correlation.
 
#17,332
#17,332
hog88 said:
They didn't make their ideas permanent, they explained clearly how to change the constitution when needed. Gun grabbers are just too damn lazy to go through the proper procedures.
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“Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I knew that age well; I belonged to it, and labored with it. It deserved well of its country.”

“Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

does this sound like TJ is talking about something as narrow as amendments?
 
#17,333
#17,333
OHvol40 said:
You missed the third scenario that many Americans would explain to you (and many people on here have expressed the exact same sentiment about covid): I prefer not to live my life in fear crippling enough that I constantly carry weaponry.
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Negative. Those conditions were set specifically for those making the argument to which my post replied. Anyone that wants to just keep on keeping on is and has always been free to do so. They also don't have any interest of judgement on what other people may choose to do.

And LOL at "crippling fear". It's tantamount to arguing seat belts or any other hedge against harm is the result of "crippling fear".
 
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#17,334
#17,334
C-south said:
No it’s not it’s dumb. Not everyone that owns a gun carries. Many places where people would like to own a gun and carry they aren’t allowed. Guess where violent crimes occur the most. You can go get the numbers to your asinine question yourself. One thing is for certain, an armed person always has a better chance when attacked than if they’re not.
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It’s not dumb because violent crime rates matter to a lot of people in this country. It might not matter to you, but it matters to many.
 
#17,336
#17,336
hndog609 said:
Negative. Those conditions were set specifically for those making the argument to which my post replied. Anyone that wants to just keep on keeping on is and has always been free to do so. They also don't have any interest of judgement on what other people may choose to do.

And LOL at "crippling fear". It's tantamount to arguing seat belts or any other hedge against harm is the result of "crippling fear".
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No, I laid out for you how many Americans who don’t carry on a daily basis feel about carrying. Ignore that if you choose.
 
#17,337
#17,337
OHvol40 said:
It’s not dumb because violent crime rates matter to a lot of people in this country. It might not matter to you, but it matters to many.
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And then they make laws that punish law abiding citizens in those areas while the criminals ignore them. Dim logic.
 
#17,338
#17,338
LouderVol said:
I did answer, even provided links.stop being obtuse.

With gun ownership staying constant we have seen a slight increase in violent crimes. Of course there is nothing saying causation or even much correlation.
Click to expand...
So I’ll help you along: if you’re objectively trying to determine causation or correlation how would you go about that, scientifically?
 
#17,341
#17,341
OHvol40 said:
No, I laid out for you how many Americans who don’t carry on a daily basis feel about carrying. Ignore that if you choose.
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Understood, and the arguments presented are either awash in, at best, ignorance or colored by hoplophobia. An actual example of "crippling fear" that diminishes their capacity for rational thought.
 
#17,342
#17,342
Tastylicks said:
If thats the case then you got a faulty gun. you "answered" my question with a question. not cool
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Lol. Your question was dumb. Nothing Biden proposed the other day will do anything. Hell he flat out lied for the most part. He made out like you could just order a gun online without a background check or go to a gun show and pick up whatever without a background check. All a total lie. Handgun crimes account for over 80% of all gun crimes and AR 15s account for less than 1% of gun crimes yet that’s all he’s concerned about. It’s not about safety it’s about control. It’s about making idiots believe you’re doing something when you’re not and haven’t in half a century. The fact he said no right in the constitution is absolute should worry everyone.
 
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#17,344
#17,344
OHvol40 said:
“Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I knew that age well; I belonged to it, and labored with it. It deserved well of its country.”

“Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

does this sound like TJ is talking about something as narrow as amendments?
Click to expand...

What are you getting at with this Jefferson quote? They gave us the mechanism to change/amend the constitution which Jefferson was involved in writing.
 
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