Gun control debate (merged)

[OHvol40]

hehehe. 2014
Federal Appeals Court Upholds Dismissal Of Cliven Bundy Case
*saw slice beat me to it.

I meant a serious example of a large scale problem where militias have been necessary. this obscurity is presented as a norm rather than an exception, and that’s funny

 

[LouderVol]

Just as I pointed out, again, in my original post.

the idea of fighting tyranny and an actual specific instance of fighting tyranny are two separate things. I am sure those unions using guns to fight corporations also shoes, and pants, and maybe even shirts on too. probably used signage and any number of other "homemade" weapons to physically fight the tyranny they were in. NONE OF IT IDEOLOGICALLY LINKS 2A TO UNIONS. no 2A supporter is saying there is no history of unions using guns.

and its humorous you think unions are fighting tyranny now. they are deep in bed with the federal government.

 

[LouderVol]

That is why one is a right and one is not in your view?

I believe a lot more things than what is listed in the Constitution are rights.

so in that broad of a take a union would be a right. under the constitution I don't see how institutionalized unions we now have are a right. and I see no link to the 2A to justify it.

 

[LouderVol]

I meant a serious example of a large scale problem where militias have been necessary. this obscurity is presented as a norm rather than an exception, and that’s funny

you clearly weren't on this forum when this happened. it was far from an obscure event to those paying attention. of course it was during the Obama era when the press never did examine the federal government closely.

gun ownership under the 2A is not solely based on the militia justification. private use is a key part as well. considering how many self defense shootings there are I would say it is plenty justified, if justification was needed. and no militia is supposed to be long standing or acting on large problems. the very idea is that private citizens can band together to act quicker than the government can respond.

 

[OHvol40]

the idea of fighting tyranny and an actual specific instance of fighting tyranny are two separate things. I am sure those unions using guns to fight corporations also shoes, and pants, and maybe even shirts on too. probably used signage and any number of other "homemade" weapons to physically fight the tyranny they were in. NONE OF IT IDEOLOGICALLY LINKS 2A TO UNIONS. no 2A supporter is saying there is no history of unions using guns.

and its humorous you think unions are fighting tyranny now. they are deep in bed with the federal government.

The connection I drew wasn’t unions using guns. It was the idea that union supporters and 2A advocates often present the same reasoning for supporting their cause. Both cite a history of tyranny and require safeguards against that tyranny.

 

[0nelilreb]

the idea of fighting tyranny and an actual specific instance of fighting tyranny are two separate things. I am sure those unions using guns to fight corporations also shoes, and pants, and maybe even shirts on too. probably used signage and any number of other "homemade" weapons to physically fight the tyranny they were in. NONE OF IT IDEOLOGICALLY LINKS 2A TO UNIONS. no 2A supporter is saying there is no history of unions using guns.

and its humorous you think unions are fighting tyranny now. they are deep in bed with the federal government.

They are indeed in bed with the Feds , in a lot of case in bed with the company they are supposed to be fighting against , but mostly and probably the biggest con going on is that they are in it as an organization for profit . The average union dues are $400 a month .

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

I guess we were overdue for somebody to come in here and **** all over the thread.

 

[OHvol40]

you clearly weren't on this forum when this happened. it was far from an obscure event to those paying attention. of course it was during the Obama era when the press never did examine the federal government closely.

gun ownership under the 2A is not solely based on the militia justification. private use is a key part as well. considering how many self defense shootings there are I would say it is plenty justified, if justification was needed. and no militia is supposed to be long standing or acting on large problems. the very idea is that private citizens can band together to act quicker than the government can respond.

So because it triggered a forum of people largely from one small region of the country with a mostly homogenous ideology then it automatically becomes a bigger deal than it was? I don’t buy that. Even if you do think it’s a big deal, it’s still an exception to recent history rather than a rule.

As far as interpreting the 2A beyond the words in the amendment, I’ve been told here MANY times that it isn’t our place to interpret the intent of the words within and we should stick to the literal words contained in the amendment. So which is it?

 

[OHvol40]

I guess we were overdue for somebody to come in here and **** all of the thread.

You’re welcome.

 

[evillawyer]

 

[Orangeslice13]

On 90%

 

[C-south]

Redundant s**t we already have. No law will stop criminals from being criminals.

 

[evillawyer]

I love posting about proposed gun legislation. It's like chumming up the water for sharks.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I worked in a union plant for 35 years as a salaried non-union employee and have mixed feelings about unions. In my early days I hated the union because they tried to dictate to me what I could do or not. It was stupid stuff like you can't look at a computer screen unless you have an electrician with you. As the months turned into years and I got to know the guys they were okay with whatever I did.
I know I got better benefits because of the union, a pension, a 6% dollar for dollar match and essentially free medical care. Once a billionaire hedge fund manager took a position in my company and decided he could rape the salaried employees he did. He split the company into pieces but the one thing he couldn't break was the union and to this day they still have their pension, 401k match and $20 a week healthcare with no deductibles and copays.
After dealing with an evil billionaire I'm pro union!

That’s not possible. You’re pro 2A and therefore hate unions. Get it together man

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

I love posting about proposed gun legislation. It's like chumming up the water for sharks.

The first rule of trolling is to never admit that you're a troll.

 

[evillawyer]

The first rule of trolling is to never admit that you're a troll.

Haha. I'm just posting relevant news in the relevant threads. But damn, I'm pretty surr people on here would be quicker to defend their guns that their wives. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised (see Ted Cruz).

 

[Boston Vol]

 

[C1500]

Haha. I'm just posting relevant news in the relevant threads. But damn, I'm pretty surr people on here would be quicker to defend their guns that their wives. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised (see Ted Cruz).

 

[LouderVol]

The connection I drew wasn’t unions using guns. It was the idea that union supporters and 2A advocates often present the same reasoning for supporting their cause. Both cite a history of tyranny and require safeguards against that tyranny.

you could literally go down our whole constitution and make this same realization. even the military has rules on what it can do in the US.

 

[LouderVol]

So because it triggered a forum of people largely from one small region of the country with a mostly homogenous ideology then it automatically becomes a bigger deal than it was? I don’t buy that. Even if you do think it’s a big deal, it’s still an exception to recent history rather than a rule.

As far as interpreting the 2A beyond the words in the amendment, I’ve been told here MANY times that it isn’t our place to interpret the intent of the words within and we should stick to the literal words contained in the amendment. So which is it?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon.

the comma, why is the comma always forgotten?

two separate statements, joined in a single sentence. it is the words. the right of the people to keep and bear arms. nothing to do with militia.

as far as what people spend their time on apparently the Kardashians are a bigger deal than ANY rights issue has been. people being unaware of a matter, or its importance does not decrease its value. and again exceptions are the reason for militias. militias aren't long standing everyday policing forces.

 

[Grand Vol]

Looks like I missed a fun time lol

 

[C-south]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon.

the comma, why is the comma always forgotten?

two separate statements, joined in a single sentence. it is the words. the right of the people to keep and bear arms. nothing to do with militia.

as far as what people spend their time on apparently the Kardashians are a bigger deal than ANY rights issue has been. people being unaware of a matter, or its importance does not decrease its value. and again exceptions are the reason for militias. militias aren't long standing everyday policing forces.

And there’s plenty of context from the authors after the fact.

 

[tnmarktx]

I worked in a union plant for 35 years as a salaried non-union employee and have mixed feelings about unions. In my early days I hated the union because they tried to dictate to me what I could do or not. It was stupid stuff like you can't look at a computer screen unless you have an electrician with you. As the months turned into years and I got to know the guys they were okay with whatever I did.
I know I got better benefits because of the union, a pension, a 6% dollar for dollar match and essentially free medical care. Once a billionaire hedge fund manager took a position in my company and decided he could rape the salaried employees he did. He split the company into pieces but the one thing he couldn't break was the union and to this day they still have their pension, 401k match and $20 a week healthcare with no deductibles and copays.
After dealing with an evil billionaire I'm pro union!

The idea of a union is hard to argue with. I mean, who doesn't want better pay, better benefits, and safer working conditions. Sadly, internationals are doing more to hurt unions then there Republicans they hate. They only care about dues and most high level members long to be Democrat politicians. That being said, I'm pro union. Oh, and I'll dare you look at a computer screen without me. I'm grieving that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Actually owning a firearm and joining a Union are both choices. Both are, and should be, maintained as pillars of this society.

Being in a right to work state doesn't prevent you from joining a union, nor does it mandate you join a union.

The 2A doesn't mandate you own a gun or prevent you from owning a gun.

Looks like you should be in support of Right to Work states as an avenue for the workers having more choice.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Just an insurance policy of a service that’s no longer needed

You can't even take these union people serious because they don't say jack squat about low wage workers running across our borders and depressing wages.