Gun control debate (merged)

#14,126
#14,126
OHvol40 said:
Lol you must be a half-wit. A bad stat that goes unchanged over 100+ years doesn’t make anything but a century-long bad stat.
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I’m not the half wit making dumbass bad arguments that are easily disproved.

what have you actually got that passes muster as a valid point?
 
#14,128
#14,128
NorthDallas40 said:
Yes I do. And I’m pointing out that you continually leave them out. Our homicide rate is mostly constant for over a hundred years and suicides dominate gun deaths in America.

Your premise doesn’t hold water. The rate at which people are killing each other has been fairly constant for over 100 years and isnt correlated to any late term blow up in Gun ownership.

Do you actually have a valid point you can make or do you just have deflection and disingenuous “I want a serious discussion” BS when your crap keeps getting thrown back at you as not passing muster.
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Again, maybe I need to say it slower. The. Graph. I. Referenced. Was. Homicides. Only.
 
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#14,130
#14,130
OHvol40 said:
Depends and which one exactly, but looking to see if gun violence number correlate to policy, whatever that may be, is the scientific approach.
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How about the UK. They have demonstrably lower levels of firearm deaths. Correct?
 
#14,131
#14,131
NorthDallas40 said:
I’m not the half wit making dumbass bad arguments that are easily disproved.

what have you actually got that passes muster as a valid point?
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What have you “disproved”? Nothing. You just ignore everything and make the same baseball analogy instead of actually engaging with the subject.
 
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#14,136
#14,136
OHvol40 said:
What have you “disproved”? Nothing. You just ignore everything and make the same baseball analogy instead of actually engaging with the subject.
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Lol. You claim a correlation between gun access, guns in circulation, and homicide rate.

It’s false.

We’ve pretty much been killing our selves at a constant rate for over 100 years. It isn’t due to any late term blow up in gun owner ship and it’s clear that the last 100+ years of gun control legislation didn’t fix it.

Run along Cletus. Your worn out arguments are nothing new and don’t hold water.
 
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#14,138
#14,138
hog88 said:
We do not have a "gun violence" problem in this country. We have a damn violence problem, fixing that is where the effort needs to be made because that isn't changing regardless what regulations are placed on guns.
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Bingo. Gun control legislation hasn’t worked one damn bit.

We’re a pretty damn violent people. Plain and simple.
 
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#14,140
#14,140
NorthDallas40 said:
Bingo. Gun control legislation hasn’t worked one damn bit.

We’re a pretty damn violent people. Plain and simple.
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That and the fact none of these people want to address our over prescribing antidepressants/ADHD drugs is 2 reasons not to ever lend credence to them. They don't want to fix problems they just want to punish the law abiding.
 
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#14,141
#14,141
OHvol40 said:
Again, you’re saying that the US is poor on gun violence because it has population centers? You’ll have to elaborate to me how that uniquely qualifies us.
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I did not say that , I said the problems are inside those population centers . Urban blight is a real problem . I suggested that raising the standards of those urban centers would have a direct effect on gun violence . The amount of gun violence , or any violence , is a direct reflections of the standards of that environment. Better leadership , better standards of living , more opportunities, an all out resistance to violence from that community.. these are all solutions to gun violence . More gun laws is a cop out and will never be a solution, only more laws on an already fat book .
 
#14,142
#14,142
OHvol40 said:
Again, maybe I need to say it slower. The. Graph. I. Referenced. Was. Homicides. Only.
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Maybe you need to learn to vet your sources, because the Small Arms Survey team you referenced admitted that suicides were included as homicide deaths.

Also that "source" which you provide states that it's goal is to disarm countries and prevent the possession and usage of "small arms".

Ridiculous source, but again not suprising
 
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#14,143
#14,143
This is the source he used to try and make a point :rolleyes: Look at some of their "goals"

Small Arms Survey - Control Measures


Control Measures
‘Control’ in this context means ensuring that weapons and ammunition are held for approved purposes by individuals or groups which, in the judgement of relevant authorities, can be trusted not to misuse them. Control efforts confront a series of problems. One is the remarkable longevity of small arms. If stored carefully, several decades may pass before the original weapon becomes unusable, but its component parts—recycled in newer weapons—may last even longer.
Small arms often pass through many hands before the end of their lives, further complicating control efforts. This life cycle begins with manufacture and moves on at some stage to possession, but need not end with first possession. Domestic and international transfer, storage (stockpiling), and final disposal (destruction) may all feature in the small arms life cycle. Most regulatory regimes are designed to maintain control over weapons and ammunition during a specific part of this cycle, but measures such as marking, record-keeping, and tracing intervene at several different stages.
Manufacturing Controls
The first phase in the life cycle of a small arm or light weapon—and the first opportunity for regulation—is manufacture.
Regulation of Civilian Possession
Domestic controls governing the possession, ownership, carrying, and use of firearms are prevalent worldwide. They are typically designed to limit access to these weapons to responsible users, thus reducing the risks of unlawful violence. Safe storage requirements limit the risk of theft and accidents.
Stockpile Management and Security
The secure management of national arms and ammunition stockpiles is instrumental in curbing proliferation risks. This includes the responsible disposal—preferably through destruction—of weapons surplus to national requirements.
International Transfer Controls
International transfer controls govern the export, import, transit, and trans-shipment of small arms, light weapons, and their ammunition from, to, or across national territory. They include procedures for authorizing the transnational movement of weapons (such as licensing criteria) and for preventing the diversion of arms shipments to unauthorized end users (such as end-user certification and verification).
Brokering Controls
Although it is an intrinsic part of the small arms trade, arms brokering remains largely unregulated. Research has highlighted, however, the crucial role that illicit brokers and associated actors play in small arms proliferation, especially in the world’s most strife-torn regions—exploiting gaps in national laws and focusing their activities on states with weak export controls and enforcement.
Weapons Collection and Destruction
Weapons collection and destruction involves the recovery and secure disposal—preferably through destruction—of small arms and light weapons from civilians, gang members, ex-combatants, and other groups. A specific type of control measure, it is typically integrated into broader programmes aimed at building peace and reducing violence in post-conflict and non-conflict settings.
Marking, Record-keeping, and Tracing
Small arms tracing, dependent on adequate marking, record-keeping, and cooperation, allows concerned governments and organizations to identify—and potentially disrupt—sources of supply to criminal groups, rebel forces, and other undesirable end users.
 
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#14,144
#14,144
Rickyvol77 said:
Maybe you need to learn to vet your sources, because the Small Arms Survey team you referenced admitted that suicides were included as homicide deaths.

Also that "source" which you provide states that it's goal is to disarm countries and prevent the possession and usage of "small arms".

Ridiculous source, but again not suprising
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LMAO it did?! 😂

Nice cherry picking there @OHvol40 ! 😂
 
#14,149
#14,149
NorthDallas40 said:
Lol. You claim a correlation between gun access, guns in circulation, and homicide rate.

It’s false.

We’ve pretty much been killing our selves at a constant rate for over 100 years. It isn’t due to any late term blow up in gun owner ship and it’s clear that the last 100+ years of gun control legislation didn’t fix it.

Run along Cletus. Your worn out arguments are nothing new and don’t hold water.
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That's not exactly true but in a good way. You are absolutely correct (as I pointed out earlier) that there is a pretty poor correlation with gun laws and homicides across the board. Some places with strong gun laws do well with homicide rates while others do not. Some places with more "gun friendly" laws actually do quite well with homicide rates while others do not. The point to all that is trying to solve for X with guns being the sole variable (which many, many people try to do) is just twaddle.

Now to the other point, murder rates, which instead of holding steady have actually seen quite a decline from it's peak back in the '90's.

New FBI Data Shows Violent Crime Still Falling, Except Rapes

Now that's nice in and of itself. What really makes that interesting is what has been going up over these past couple decades while that's been going down. Yep...gun purchases and carry permits. While the murder rate has been dropping this has been going on.

Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia

Now I do want to say I don't think there's some 1-1 correlation with those data points. While I find it very easy to believe that crime having become more dangerous for criminals probably has had a positive effect I don't want to get too carried away and say it's all about the guns. (that would make one guilty of the same "it's all the guns" fallacy referenced earlier for the anti-gunners) One thing is for absolutely, undeniably, irrefutably certain; the increase in firearm purchases and carry has not coincided with greater homicide rates.
 
#14,150
#14,150
hndog609 said:
That's not exactly true but in a good way. You are absolutely correct (as I pointed out earlier) that there is a pretty poor correlation with gun laws and homicides across the board. Some places with strong gun laws do well with homicide rates while others do not. Some places with more "gun friendly" laws actually do quite well with homicide rates while others do not. The point to all that is trying to solve for X with guns being the sole variable (which many, many people try to do) is just twaddle.

Now to the other point, murder rates, which instead of holding steady have actually seen quite a decline from it's peak back in the '90's.

New FBI Data Shows Violent Crime Still Falling, Except Rapes

Now that's nice in and of itself. What really makes that interesting is what has been going up over these past couple decades while that's been going down. Yep...gun purchases and carry permits. While the murder rate has been dropping this has been going on.

Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia

Now I do want to say I don't think there's some 1-1 correlation with those data points. While I find it very easy to believe that crime having become more dangerous for criminals probably has had a positive effect I don't want to get too carried away and say it's all about the guns. (that would make one guilty of the same "it's all the guns" fallacy referenced earlier for the anti-gunners) One thing is for absolutely, undeniably, irrefutably certain; the increase in firearm purchases and carry has not coincided with greater homicide rates.
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I posted a graph on the rate of homicide a couple of pages back that shows the rate of homicide has been fairly constant over the last 100+ years but yes noted in the current timeframe the rate of homicide due to gun violence has been in decline. It was in decline before NAWB1994 and remained in decline after it expired.

The homicide rate in the US has been fairly constant and has no correlation to some arbitrary claim of a blow up in guns in circulation. That is cherry picked shiite.

We simply appear to be a fairly angry and violent people. Maybe we should post signs at airport points of entry 🤔
 
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