Gun control debate (merged)

#19,851
#19,851
0nelilreb said:
What’s the root cause ? To fix any problem you have to find the root cause , fix it and the result will change . I haven’t looked at the stats but I’ll bet anything that those are numbers that we havent seen before , I didn’t grow up with those numbers or these problems in society , so how did we get here ?keep in mind when I was going up you could order a firearm from the sears catalog and they would deliver it to your house , we went to a giant flea market and bought rifles , pistols and shot guns , every “ first Monday “ . None of those w toons resulted in what we see today … ITS NOT A GUN PROBLEM.
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Maybe we’ve come a long way in identifying and diagnosing mental illness (hint: we have)
 
#19,853
#19,853
OHvol40 said:
Maybe we’ve come a long way in identifying and diagnosing mental illness (hint: we have)
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Maybe “ we “ have enabled this diagnosis to the degree that everyone thinks they are mentally unstable , and needs therapy and a pill to fix it . ( hint: we absolutely have )
 
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#19,855
#19,855
OHvol40 said:
Maybe we’ve come a long way in identifying and diagnosing mental illness (hint: we have)
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Yep. For example can recognize a dude wanting to be a chic and beat up on girls in sports is most definitely a mental illness you just can’t say it out loud.
 
#19,858
#19,858
hog88 said:
Then explain why the mentally ill weren't shooting up the place on the regular back then? You know back when it was even easier for them to get a gun.
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Anyone who was slightly bothersome could be “committed” indefinitely by their family. No treatment, no diagnosis, just locked up. That was a big part of it.
 
#19,859
#19,859
0nelilreb said:
Maybe “ we “ have enabled this diagnosis to the degree that everyone thinks they are mentally unstable , and needs therapy and a pill to fix it . ( hint: we absolutely have )
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Meh, not everyone, but go out and actually ask people who have sought help for depression, or bipolar disorder, or personality disorders if the help they received has been beneficial. I think, for you, it might be a surprise, the amount of good that is done.
 
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#19,860
#19,860
C-south said:
Yep. For example can recognize a dude wanting to be a chic and beat up on girls in sports is most definitely a mental illness you just can’t say it out loud.
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Similar to a dude that writes a manifesto and seeks out a black neighborhood to start hunting down people? I’d say there are different levels of illness and how it affects those around them, wouldn’t you?
 
#19,861
#19,861
OHvol40 said:
Similar to a dude that writes a manifesto and seeks out a black neighborhood to start hunting down people? I’d say there are different levels of illness and how it affects those around them, wouldn’t you?
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Recognizing all forms of it is at least a start. Not encouraging and pandering to any of it would be a great next step.
 
#19,864
#19,864
OHvol40 said:
Meh, not everyone, but go out and actually ask people who have sought help for depression, or bipolar disorder, or personality disorders if the help they received has been beneficial. I think, for you, it might be a surprise, the amount of good that is done.
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You assume a don’t know anything about depression , or personality disorders . ( you shouldn’t do that ) . What we should focus on is what I said and you seem to ignore , root causes . Again being a GenX’er from the south , I have had the experience of living with and around people from a very poor economic area , with WW2 , Korean and Vietnam, vets , where “ guns” were a normal part of life with no stigma attached to them , kids were taught daily about them and the dangers they pose , not on a computer or out of book , but by hands on experience. We worked for our parents , grandparents , aunts and uncles , neighbors because they needed help not because we demanded a new $300 pair of kicks or a new iPhone . I can go on and on with this and you know it but I won’t , I’ll say it one more time in case you missed it the first time .. WE DONT HAVE A GUN PROBLEM. The root cause is obvious .
 
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#19,865
#19,865
OHvol40 said:
Anyone who was slightly bothersome could be “committed” indefinitely by their family. No treatment, no diagnosis, just locked up. That was a big part of it.
Click to expand...

That’s not true and you know it. Now come on and try it again. If there were just as many mentally ill decades ago as there are now why weren’t they shooting up the place when guns were even easier to get?
 
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#19,866
#19,866
0nelilreb said:
You assume a don’t know anything about depression , or personality disorders . ( you shouldn’t do that ) . What we should focus on is what I said and you seem to ignore , root causes . Again being a GenX’er from the south , I have had the experience of living with and around people from a very poor economic area , with WW2 , Korean and Vietnam, vets , where “ guns” were a normal part of life with no stigma attached to them , kids were taught daily about them and the dangers they pose , not on a computer or out of book , but by hands on experience. We worked for our parents , grandparents , aunts and uncles , neighbors because they needed help not because we demanded a new $300 pair of kicks or a new iPhone . I can go on and on with this and you know it but I won’t , I’ll say it one more time in case you missed it the first time .. WE DONT HAVE A GUN PROBLEM. The root cause is obvious .
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Exactly. We don’t have a gun problem, we have a people problem. Look at the gun ownership statistics.

Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2021 | Statista
 
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#19,867
#19,867
hog88 said:
That’s not true and you know it. Now come on and try it again. If there were just as many mentally ill decades ago as there are now why weren’t they shooting up the place when guns were even easier to get?
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Lol, I do know it to be true, and will provide resources on the matter if necessary.
 
#19,869
#19,869
0nelilreb said:
You assume a don’t know anything about depression , or personality disorders . ( you shouldn’t do that ) . What we should focus on is what I said and you seem to ignore , root causes . Again being a GenX’er from the south , I have had the experience of living with and around people from a very poor economic area , with WW2 , Korean and Vietnam, vets , where “ guns” were a normal part of life with no stigma attached to them , kids were taught daily about them and the dangers they pose , not on a computer or out of book , but by hands on experience. We worked for our parents , grandparents , aunts and uncles , neighbors because they needed help not because we demanded a new $300 pair of kicks or a new iPhone . I can go on and on with this and you know it but I won’t , I’ll say it one more time in case you missed it the first time .. WE DONT HAVE A GUN PROBLEM. The root cause is obvious .
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We do have a gun problem.
 
#19,870
#19,870
hog88 said:
Please, I’d love to see it.
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A Brief History of Mental Illness and the U.S. Mental Health Care System

“Institutionalization was also welcomed by families and communities struggling to care for mentally ill relatives.(3) Although institutionalized care increased patient access to mental health services, the state hospitals were often underfunded and understaffed, and the institutional care system drew harsh criticism following a number of high-profile reports of poor living conditions and human rights violations.”

“Although large inpatient psychiatric hospitals are a fixture in certain countries, particularly in Central and Eastern Europe, the deinstitutionalization movement has been widespread, dramatically changing the nature of modern psychiatric care.(7) The closure of state psychiatric hospitals in the United States was codified by the Community Mental Health Centers Act of 1963, and strict standards were passed so that only individuals “who posed an imminent danger to themselves or someone else” could be committed to state psychiatric hospitals.(8) By the mid-1960s in the U.S., many severely mentally ill people had been moved from psychiatric institutions to local mental health homes or similar facilities. The number of institutionalized mentally ill patients fell from its peak of 560,000 in the 1950s to 130,000 by 1980.”

The History of Inhumane Mental Health Treatments - Talkspace

America's Long-Suffering Mental Health System | Origins

Declared Insane for Speaking Up: The Dark American History of Silencing Women Through Psychiatry

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/r...ws-story/e590c54e3469606d1b2330a52c3d8f6b?amp

Mania, dementia and melancholia in the 1870s: admissions to a Cornwall asylum

https://minds.wisconsin.edu/bitstream/handle/1793/6687/Lunacy in the 19th Century.pdf?sequence=1
 
#19,872
#19,872
OHvol40 said:
A Brief History of Mental Illness and the U.S. Mental Health Care System

“Institutionalization was also welcomed by families and communities struggling to care for mentally ill relatives.(3) Although institutionalized care increased patient access to mental health services, the state hospitals were often underfunded and understaffed, and the institutional care system drew harsh criticism following a number of high-profile reports of poor living conditions and human rights violations.”

“Although large inpatient psychiatric hospitals are a fixture in certain countries, particularly in Central and Eastern Europe, the deinstitutionalization movement has been widespread, dramatically changing the nature of modern psychiatric care.(7) The closure of state psychiatric hospitals in the United States was codified by the Community Mental Health Centers Act of 1963, and strict standards were passed so that only individuals “who posed an imminent danger to themselves or someone else” could be committed to state psychiatric hospitals.(8) By the mid-1960s in the U.S., many severely mentally ill people had been moved from psychiatric institutions to local mental health homes or similar facilities. The number of institutionalized mentally ill patients fell from its peak of 560,000 in the 1950s to 130,000 by 1980.”

The History of Inhumane Mental Health Treatments - Talkspace

America's Long-Suffering Mental Health System | Origins

Declared Insane for Speaking Up: The Dark American History of Silencing Women Through Psychiatry

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/r...ws-story/e590c54e3469606d1b2330a52c3d8f6b?amp

Mania, dementia and melancholia in the 1870s: admissions to a Cornwall asylum

https://minds.wisconsin.edu/bitstream/handle/1793/6687/Lunacy in the 19th Century.pdf?sequence=1
Click to expand...

This clearly disputes your earlier post:

OHvol40 said:
Anyone who was slightly bothersome could be “committed” indefinitely by their family. No treatment, no diagnosis, just locked up. That was a big part of it.
Click to expand...
 
#19,874
#19,874
hog88 said:
That’s not true and you know it. Now come on and try it again. If there were just as many mentally ill decades ago as there are now why weren’t they shooting up the place when guns were even easier to get?
Click to expand...
In 1955 there were 560,000 people detained in mental health facilities when the total US population was 171.7 million, (3.6 per thousand) That same ratio today would see 1,085,000 people housed in mental health facilities.
 
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