Gun control debate (merged)

#1,751
#1,751
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I'm not making an argument, you are. I'm asking for evidence of the fact that the law/code applies, other than the code applies, because the code applies.
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My support was the US Constitution. My argument is based in reality and fact whereas your questions are seeking an answer that there is no support for the law absent legal documents. This is obviously true, but as an argument it is unpersuasive. Where is your authority for your "right" own a gun?
 
#1,752
#1,752
ClearwaterVol said:
My support was the US Constitution. My argument is based in reality and fact whereas your questions are seeking an answer that there is no support for the law absent legal documents. This is obviously true, but as an argument it is unpersuasive. Where is your authority for your "right" own a gun?
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I can own a gun because of the fact that I'm a human being, and I am the owner of my own person.

Using the constitution really doesn't fly for your argument either, can you provide me with evidence that shows the constitution applies to citizens as individuals?

You're right in a way, the only proof the government has, is its say so. It's ability to inflict consequences upon the individual who violates the edicts set forth.

I'd urge you to look up Lysander Spooner and his book No Treason: the constitution of no authority.
 
#1,755
#1,755
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I own myself. Now, if I was trying to control others, you may have a point.
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You're still not giving me any authority besides, "I say so."

What authority do you have that would prevent me, assuming that I'm bigger and badder than you, from taking your stuff and your rights?
 
#1,756
#1,756
ClearwaterVol said:
You're still not giving me any authority besides, "I say so."

What authority do you have that would prevent me, assuming that I'm bigger and badder than you, from taking your stuff and your rights?
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That stance will not work, as I'm not trying to control others. Unlike government.

My abilty to defend myself from your initiated attack is the only justification I would need.
 
#1,757
#1,757
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
That stance will not work, as I'm not trying to control others. Unlike government.

My abilty to defend myself from your initiated attack is the only justification I would need.
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Again, no authority. See how fun this "argument" is? Your little utopian world though certainly appealing cannot exist.
 
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#1,759
#1,759
The burden of proof is squarely on you. Now, can you show me where any of the law applies to me simply because I'm in a specific location? Evidence, not assertions.
 
#1,760
#1,760
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
But, your world of theft, coercion, and violence by the state certainly does.

I don't need an authority to protect myself, are you kidding me???
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You say you have certain rights? I've asked by whose authority are you granted such rights? Your only answer is because i say so. In such a world might equals right and if I'm mightier than you, I can buy and sell you like chattel.
 
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#1,761
#1,761
ClearwaterVol said:
You say you have certain rights? I've asked by whose authority are you granted such rights? Your only answer is because i say so. In such a world might equals right and if I'm mightier than you, I can buy and sell you like chattel.
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It's funny how collectivist always resort to slavery and violence when someone asserts their natural God given rights that supersede the state. Because my rights as a human being are older than the state.

If I was trying to Inflict my views on a whole population, your argument may have merits. At this point, none exist.
 
#1,762
#1,762
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
It's funny how collectivist always resort to slavery and violence when someone asserts their natural God given rights that supersede the state. Because my rights as a human being are older than the state.

If I was trying to Inflict my views on a whole population, your argument may have merits. At this point, none exist.
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Who says you're entitled to any rights? And what is a God given right? Certainly with rights as important as gun ownership, God wrote down said rights so that everyone is working from the same script. For that matter, what or whose God is doling out said rights? You have an opinion, one to which you are certainly entitled, but it is just that. I, like the vast majority of Americans, have submitted to the system of laws based upon the constitution. Should one not wish to participate in this system them they are simply free to opt out and leave.
 
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#1,763
#1,763
ClearwaterVol said:
Who says you're entitled to any rights? And what is a God given right? Certainly with rights as important as gun ownership, God wrote down said rights so that everyone is working from the same script. For that matter, what or whose God is doling out said rights? You have an opinion, one to which you are certainly entitled, but it is just that. I, like the vast majority of Americans, have submitted to the system of laws based upon the constitution. Should one not wish to participate in this system them they are simply free to opt out and leave.
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So, if I don't like it leave. That **** never gets old. Lol
 
#1,764
#1,764
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
So, if I don't like it leave. That **** never gets old. Lol
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Well, you could try and change the system, but that seems a bit like tilting at windmills or you could moan and wine about it. Leaving seems an expedient solution that might enable one to find a situation more compatible with your leanings.
 
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#1,765
#1,765
ClearwaterVol said:
Well, you could try and change the system, but that seems a bit like tilting at windmills or you could moan and wine about it. Leaving seems an expedient solution that might enable one to find a situation more compatible with your leanings.
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Embracing evil to reduce evil is stupid. The state exists today because people believe the short-sighted answers the state provides, to problems the state has created.
 
#1,767
#1,767
ClearwaterVol said:
I don't agree with your premise that the state is evil.
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Well, it's more of a statement to the fallacy of the lesser of two evils. Although a case can be made for all the death and destruction that is dealt out by the hands of the state. I suppose it depends on your definition of evil.
 
#1,772
#1,772
ClearwaterVol said:
You stated the state supplied short term answers to problems it created. What problems?
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Seriously? Look around man. The criminal code in its entirety. The taxation system in its entirety. The entire theory of limited government itself.

I don't pick symptoms, I strike the root of the problem.
 
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#1,773
#1,773
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Seriously? Look around man. The criminal code in its entirety. The taxation system in its entirety. The entire theory of limited government itself.

I don't pick symptoms, I strike the root of the problem.
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I think your brush is too broad. The criminal code has gotten somewhat unwieldy, but in my opinion, and that of the vast majority of Americans, is necessary. I complain about taxes, but ultimately i realize their necessity.

How would your ideal society be organized?
 
#1,774
#1,774
ClearwaterVol said:
I think your brush is too broad. The criminal code has gotten somewhat unwieldy, but in my opinion, and that of the vast majority of Americans, is necessary. I complain about taxes, but ultimately i realize their necessity.

How would your ideal society be organized?
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The basic problem with government is the false belief that you can centrally plan society.
 
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