Gun control debate (merged)

#776
#776
Gramps said:
Joe-Biden-Go-Buy-a-Shotgun.png
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how to take this gramps, are you picking on me this morning?

( I haven't had any coffee this morning)
 
#778
#778
GoBigOrangeUT said:
If I were looking for a gun for home defense, what would be y'all's opinions on the best?

I'm thinking about a .22 just due to the fact that I don't see myself needing much more than that and the ammo is still pretty damn cheap
Click to expand...

I didn't see your edit last night.

.22 is marginal at best for a determined attacker and has a hard time getting a good CNS depth you'll need to put a target down. Maybe it is cheap, but if your or your family's life worth a couple of bucks you'll save on ammo?
 
#781
#781
Obsessed said:
I ain't scared. I have my superman pajamas on
Click to expand...

Doesn't count unless they have the footies.

In seriousness, where you live at, and me to an extent, a shotgun is a highly useful tool for that kind of job as you can move inside or outside. But for suburbia America, it tends to be the wrong tool for the application of HD. I'm not saying it's not effective, but when you see that the majority of folks that have a shotgun for that application don't take the time to practice with same, it becomes a liability.

Most folks that get that advice get told the myths of "you don't even have to aim it!" Which is highly illogical since any weapon needs to be aimed and a shotgun is actually more so in that regard. Since loads other than sabots or slugs will spread, it's imperative that the weapon is aimed. Because that can and will cause significant overpenetration and go right through sheetrock walls.

Or you see the "you can use birdshot up close!" Which is a lie since nobody in the ballistics world that does testing would ever recommend birdshot since it lacks sufficient penetration to knock down a target. They will get bloody, sure, but the wounds are typically superficial at best and the target can still continue the acts that led you to shoot in the first place.

And then there are the gun store commandos that will say "all ya gotta do is rack it! They'll piss themselves trying to leave!" And if they don't? If someone has nothing to lose? Or is tweaking?

Next is the fact that with lack of practice clearing a home with a shotgun is not an easy task. Nor is firing one single handed while your other hand is working the phone dialing 911. With a pistol, you can do both. And then you have family members that might need to use it. A pistol is typically a point and click interface and the violent recoil associated with most shotguns can/will cause a person to jump and even drop the weapon. And hesitate on follow up shots unless they've been training with said shotgun (which most people don't)

Believe it or not, your new play toy is better suited for HD applications than a shotgun is. Higher capacity, significantly lower recoil for follow up shots, short enough not to cause serious issues while moving room to room and some ammo is far better to those applications since it's been proven to break up in sheetrock and other building materials in case of misses. But still penetrates deep enough in the target to cause incapacitation.

I'm not a huge proponent of a shotgun for home defense. Pistol, carbine/rifle and shotgun as a last option.
 
#782
#782
CNCVol88 said:
And last I checked, at least around Knoxville, finding .22 ammo was like finding a unicorn.
Click to expand...

It's coming back out here a little bit. But buying bulk pack? Not happening. Manufacturers and dealers know folks are still paying premium prices and are selling it by the individual box.
 
#783
#783
Grand Vol said:
Doesn't count unless they have the footies.

In seriousness, where you live at, and me to an extent, a shotgun is a highly useful tool for that kind of job as you can move inside or outside. But for suburbia America, it tends to be the wrong tool for the application of HD. I'm not saying it's not effective, but when you see that the majority of folks that have a shotgun for that application don't take the time to practice with same, it becomes a liability.

Most folks that get that advice get told the myths of "you don't even have to aim it!" Which is highly illogical since any weapon needs to be aimed and a shotgun is actually more so in that regard. Since loads other than sabots or slugs will spread, it's imperative that the weapon is aimed. Because that can and will cause significant overpenetration and go right through sheetrock walls.

Or you see the "you can use birdshot up close!" Which is a lie since nobody in the ballistics world that does testing would ever recommend birdshot since it lacks sufficient penetration to knock down a target. They will get bloody, sure, but the wounds are typically superficial at best and the target can still continue the acts that led you to shoot in the first place.

And then there are the gun store commandos that will say "all ya gotta do is rack it! They'll piss themselves trying to leave!" And if they don't? If someone has nothing to lose? Or is tweaking?

Next is the fact that with lack of practice clearing a home with a shotgun is not an easy task. Nor is firing one single handed while your other hand is working the phone dialing 911. With a pistol, you can do both. And then you have family members that might need to use it. A pistol is typically a point and click interface and the violent recoil associated with most shotguns can/will cause a person to jump and even drop the weapon. And hesitate on follow up shots unless they've been training with said shotgun (which most people don't)

Believe it or not, your new play toy is better suited for HD applications than a shotgun is. Higher capacity, significantly lower recoil for follow up shots, short enough not to cause serious issues while moving room to room and some ammo is far better to those applications since it's been proven to break up in sheetrock and other building materials in case of misses. But still penetrates deep enough in the target to cause incapacitation.

I'm not a huge proponent of a shotgun for home defense. Pistol, carbine/rifle and shotgun as a last option.
Click to expand...

I guess I have never really looked at it that way. I had thought of the AR for these purposes.

With me, no matter how much shooting I do, I'm just not confident with my efficiency with a pistol. Now with my shotgun and the AR for that matter, I'm efficient. Hell I'm more consistent with a bow than a pistol.

I will say I do shoot better with a revolver than a semi-auto.
 
#784
#784
Grand Vol said:
Not in any particular order:

Glock 19
Sig P229
H&K VP9
S&W M&P
Beretta PX4
CZ P07
FN FNS

In 9mm using Federal HST 124 grain bonded HP

ETA: This is a standard list I give most anyone who asks. Try each to find which fits your hand better and try it out before buying if possible.
Click to expand...

since it's HD why not go full sized

Sig 226 over 229. The 226 always seemed better balanced to me and if it's in a drawer the size doesn't matter. My 226 is what I keep by the bed.

Same with Glock 17 vs 19?
 
#785
#785
You fellers like a light on your HD gun? Have heard the pros and cons - just wondering your practice.
 
#786
#786
volinbham said:
since it's HD why not go full sized

Sig 226 over 229. The 226 always seemed better balanced to me and if it's in a drawer the size doesn't matter. My 226 is what I keep by the bed.

Same with Glock 17 vs 19?
Click to expand...

Careful. If it's not in a safe, LG will sue you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#787
#787
Obsessed said:
I guess I have never really looked at it that way. I had thought of the AR for these purposes.

With me, no matter how much shooting I do, I'm just not confident with my efficiency with a pistol. Now with my shotgun and the AR for that matter, I'm efficient. Hell I'm more consistent with a bow than a pistol.

I will say I do shoot better with a revolver than a semi-auto.
Click to expand...

An AR, even with the evilness it brings with it from the liberal side of the house, is a far superior weapon in a HD role than a shotgun. Being that hits count and misses can be fatal to you and bystanders, a softer shooting platform works wonders for people of all ages and genders. Loaded with some M193 spec ammo, it provides an outstanding ballistic alternative to a shotgun since the round fragments inside people as well as not overpenetrating walls. That's the reason many if not most of the first rate tactical teams have or are going back to the 5.56 platform for that kind of work. It was found that pistols caliber carbines and SMGs were far overpenetrating during scenarios whereas the 5.56 was "safer" for lack of a better term.

Overall, most people that rely on a shotgun for home defense can actually be better suited with an AR platform since it's way more user friendly than the other. With minimal training, most people can put at least five controlled triple taps on target in the same or less time they can unload a five round tube from a shotgun.
 
#788
#788
volinbham said:
since it's HD why not go full sized

Sig 226 over 229. The 226 always seemed better balanced to me and if it's in a drawer the size doesn't matter. My 226 is what I keep by the bed.

Same with Glock 17 vs 19?
Click to expand...

I always leave the option of CCW for later. If someone decides they want to get their CCW permit, it's easier if they already have a platform that can be utilized for that purpose. And really, the compact designs like the 229 and G19 don't give up much when compared to their full sized brothers. In a HD role, we aren't talking about 50 yards shots where a pattern from a compact will be more noticeable. 30-50 feet max for the most part.

I have no issues with larger frame pistols for that kind of work as I have a full sized 1911 at my bedside. But only as long as that will be the only intended purpose. And I find other family members, wives, teenagers and the likes with the proper training can handle the slimmer and shorter grips on compacts better than full sized pistols.
 
#790
#790
volinbham said:
You fellers like a light on your HD gun? Have heard the pros and cons - just wondering your practice.
Click to expand...

Mandatory item in my household.



An old Insight M3 120 lumen on the Commander, Streamlight TLR-1 300 lumen on the full size 1911, Surefire Scout 500 lumen on the rifle.
 
#793
#793
Grand Vol said:
I always leave the option of CCW for later. If someone decides they want to get their CCW permit, it's easier if they already have a platform that can be utilized for that purpose. And really, the compact designs like the 229 and G19 don't give up much when compared to their full sized brothers. In a HD role, we aren't talking about 50 yards shots where a pattern from a compact will be more noticeable. 30-50 feet max for the most part.

I have no issues with larger frame pistols for that kind of work as I have a full sized 1911 at my bedside. But only as long as that will be the only intended purpose. And I find other family members, wives, teenagers and the likes with the proper training can handle the slimmer and shorter grips on compacts better than full sized pistols.
Click to expand...

I hear ya though I don't see the grips as being slimmer; just shorter.
 
#795
#795
govols/cc said:
Mossberg home defense shotgun. Comes with optional pistol grip.

Click to expand...

i have the pistol grip version. m500 'persuader'. best home defense weapon IMO. vast majority of criminals will flee when they hear a shotgun chamber a round. best sound in the world when theres a problem....
 
#796
#796
marcusluvsvols said:
i have the pistol grip version. m500 'persuader'. best home defense weapon IMO. vast majority of criminals will flee when they hear a shotgun chamber a round. best sound in the world when theres a problem....
Click to expand...

Nice gun Marcus.
 
#797
#797
marcusluvsvols said:
i have the pistol grip version. m500 'persuader'. best home defense weapon IMO. vast majority of criminals will flee when they hear a shotgun chamber a round. best sound in the world when theres a problem....
Click to expand...

Mine came with the pistol grip. I can swap them out it's just one bolt. I like the stock though to keep the sleeve on.
 
#799
#799
BREAKING: Federal Judge Rules AR-15′s Are “Dangerous and Unusual,” Not Protected by 2nd Amendment

In what looks to be a terrible ruling for Maryland gun owners a federal judge has essentially ruled that guns that were regulated by the state of Maryland last year, including AR-15 and AK style rifles (as well as other magazine fed, semi-auto rifles with certain features), “fall outside Second Amendment protection as dangerous and unusual arms,” according to a 47 page opinion by U.S. District Judge Catherine C. Blake.
Click to expand...

Two words: Molon Labe
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top