Guitar Shots: Indefensible

#4
#4
Sorry for the bad edit. I have a few screwy sentences in there. My editor quit this week.
 
#6
#6
Lex - I put a comment at the bottom of the article. I think that our discipline has been pretty good this year despite last week's stupidity, so I disagree with your point about team discipline being a "mirage" this season. Overall, however, I think your analysis and thoughts were great. Thanks for the article and keep 'em coming! Go Vols!
 
#7
#7
I understand. This was not the first problem for either one of those guys (if you beleive everything you hear). We are certainly more disciplined on the field, but I do think that CLK set himself up by touting his record on it. When you do that, you are in a corner when something like this happens....and it is going to happen.
 
#8
#8
Some say Kiff wanted JJ on the trip but was quickly overuled.
 
#9
#9
The article offers an interesting perspective on most points. However, I am still perplexed by the widespread obsession with "indefinite suspensions."

The only difference in an "indefinite suspension" and the current status of the three stooges is solely one of semantics.
 
#10
#10
Good read. Lex is right Kiffin set himself up for it. Kiffin has some brashness and boldness about him, even some arrogance. I like it myself, but it makes him a target and a magnet to the media. He's under a microscope here and still learning the ropes in my opinion.
 
#11
#11
Great Read Lex... being a Vol fan I want to disagree with your article ... I want to see all three of these guys still in orange but can't see it happening
 
#12
#12
voldoc82 said:
The article offers an interesting perspective on most points. However, I am still perplexed by the widespread obsession with "indefinite suspensions."

The only difference in an "indefinite suspension" and the current status of the three stooges is solely one of semantics.
Click to expand...

PR.
 
#13
#13
Whether you use the two words or not, them not being allowed to participate in any team activities = supension. As you just said, PR has a lot to do with clouding an otherwise clear response to the situation at hand.
 
#14
#14
Great quote I thinks..
"Before we jump off of the Lane train, and throw Monte under the tracks, we should also mention one other thing. The talent pool left for the current group of coaches is also indefensible. It is amazing that it took 10 games for the lack of depth to finally catch up with the Vols. Dexter McCluster is good. But he ain’t a Heisman hopeful."
 
#16
#16
Lexvol said:
I understand. This was not the first problem for either one of those guys (if you beleive everything you hear). We are certainly more disciplined on the field, but I do think that CLK set himself up by touting his record on it. When you do that, you are in a corner when something like this happens....and it is going to happen.
Click to expand...

You've got a point on that one. However, as long as Coach Kiffin backs up his talk and enforces standards of conduct on the team, he will be fine. It would be bad if he did nothing (or a wrist-slap) and let all of these guys stay on the team with little or no repurcussions. We'll just have to wait and see how this one ultimately plays out. Janzen Jackson's situation will be the one that tells the tale.
 
#17
#17
The 'mirage of discipline' comment was a little on the retarded side. Discipline does not mean you have zero incidents. Anytime you have 80-100 seventeen to twenty-one year olds, somebody's getting into trouble.

Discipline is defined on how you respond. Two people have been removed from the team. One is still up in the air, because he may actually be innocent.

And this theory of the 'indefinite suspension'... what is the difference between that, and what is actually happening? Not much that I can see. Who cares if they made a public declaration and label it?
 
#18
#18
It's hard to criticize Kiffin for boasting about the team's discipline because selling oneself is part of the job title for a major coach.

I think "indefinite suspension" is code for "he may play on Saturday."
 
#19
#19
As always,good stuff Lex.I agree with what you said about ever regaining the trust or affection of Volnation.If Jackson is cleared and is able to return to the team will we fans always look down on him because of this incident?

Speaking of McCluster,I read somewhere that everytime he ran the ball,our defense was saying stuff to him.McCluster said it only fueled his fire to run even harder.
 
#20
#20
I agree with everything Lex said. The mirage of discipline could have been worded better possibly, but what Lex is saying is that Kiffin has attempted to create the sense that he has complete and utter control over this team when in fact, no coach truly does.

Kiffin would be better to not constantly bring up the fact that we haven't had any incidents for 11 months (Now he's taken to saying this is the first incident in 11 months) and simply treat it as the standard and nothing to be noted.
 
#23
#23
Good read, Lex. We will probably be able to judge the state of discipline only after some more time, but after the events of today it seems pretty obvious that CLK is going to be very serious about it.

In Jackson's case it appears that the delay is for them to review the newest drug test and get a feel for how the DA is going to try it. Right now, tonight, I have a queasy feeling in my gut that JJ is probably gone too.

Even in the old days, when all the players lived in Gibbs and we would expect much closer oversight, there were still problems. The NCAA expects full supervision, but prohibits it.

If Kiffin shows the team, and recruits, that he's going to require good behavior or else, maybe they pay attention... and maybe some moms and dads decide that is what they want their sons to learn.
 
#25
#25
wombat7477 said:
The 'mirage of discipline' comment was a little on the retarded side. Discipline does not mean you have zero incidents. Anytime you have 80-100 seventeen to twenty-one year olds, somebody's getting into trouble.

Discipline is defined on how you respond. Two people have been removed from the team. One is still up in the air, because he may actually be innocent.

And this theory of the 'indefinite suspension'... what is the difference between that, and what is actually happening? Not much that I can see. Who cares if they made a public declaration and label it?
Click to expand...

I love the honest feedback. Sab was correct with his interpretation, and I probably should have spelled it out even further. It is impossible for a coach to have total control over his team's arrest record in the SEC. I think it best to leave such accomplishments in that area off of the record. Talk about keeping grades up and going to class. Talk about a decrease in silly penalties. Don't brag about keeping kids out of jail.

I've said it before. I think this is a lesson learned.
 
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