Great coaches don't win without upper Classmen

#26
#26
MSME Vol said:
The defensive backs looked tired in the 4th against Florida. On several of those completions, especially their last touchdown, the guy just ran out and turned around to be open. Doesn't matter what scheme you run, that doesn't happen against fresh legs.
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Doesn't happen against an aggressive blitz either.
 
#27
#27
Smokey1210 said:
There is no hope for you as a person if you honestly think that someone can win in the SEC with freshmen and sophomores. I'd love for someone to post how many Jr. and srs were drafted from those teams that one the championship as well. We won't even be close. Everyone on here needs to just let the guy do his thing. If he can't win with his own Jr and Sr. class then he sucks. But there is no way on earth you can say that right now playing freaking more freshman the last two seasons than any team in the country. Not to mention WE PLAY IN THE SEC!
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Trying telling that to this guy:

mcelwain-introduction.jpg


It'd be nice for you and everyone else making this exact same argument....can't win with underclassmen....to get a grip and take a look around the landscape of college football.
 
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#28
#28
MSME Vol said:
The defensive backs looked tired in the 4th against Florida. On several of those completions, especially their last touchdown, the guy just ran out and turned around to be open. Doesn't matter what scheme you run, that doesn't happen against fresh legs.
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Really? It's amazing how those guys got their stamina back for the first three downs each time.
 
#30
#30
Excuses can be made for coaches till the cows come in!!! Look at the new Florida coach!! Great job!! Fact is, Butch is now sitting there with a record that is worse than Dooley's!!!
 
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#32
#32
TucsonVol said:
Excuses can be made for coaches till the cows come in!!! Look at the new Florida coach!! Great job!! Fact is, Butch is now sitting there with a record that is worse than Dooley's!!!
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Dooley's loss to Kentucky makes him the worse coach of all time!! plus there is all the other stupid **** he did but that doesn't even matter. Just the loss to Kentucky is enough..
 
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#33
#33
Currently, Jones isn't a good gameday coach at all, and really, I think his absolute ceiling for that aspect of his career is probably always going to be Mark Richt-ish. That being said, I think youth is still a legitimate concern simply b/c there's really no experienced talent on this roster to make a big bail-out play for Butch and his coordinator's coaching deficiencies. Unfortunately, on this season's roster, Curt Maggit was that guy. Also, Cam Sutton SHOULD be another one of those guys, but that hasn't worked out so far... Even with Butch's strategic mistakes, experienced talent in the same situation against Oklahoma and Florida would have shut those comebacks down. My hope is that next year, even if Butch keeps doing Butch, the older players will be able to spare us some of the misery...
 
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#34
#34
Smokey1210 said:
There is no hope for you as a person if you honestly think that someone can win in the SEC with freshmen and sophomores. I'd love for someone to post how many Jr. and srs were drafted from those teams that one the championship as well. We won't even be close. Everyone on here needs to just let the guy do his thing. If he can't win with his own Jr and Sr. class then he sucks. But there is no way on earth you can say that right now playing freaking more freshman the last two seasons than any team in the country. Not to mention WE PLAY IN THE SEC!
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I agree with you. Apparently the lack of general football knowledge is severely lacking by some on this site. A freshman and sophomore laden team will never play for an SEC championship. Biology won't allow it. At this moment our program can't afford to even redshirt players.
 
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#35
#35
Smokey1210 said:
Saban/ First championship at AL 2009
Sr class ranked #11
Jr. class ranked #10
So. Calls ranked #1
Fr. Class Ranked #1

Urban Myer/ First Championship at FL 2006
Sr. Class ranked #2
Jr. Class ranked #10
So Class ranked #15
Fr class Ranked #2

Les Miles/ First Championship at LSU 2007
Sr. Class Ranked #1
Jr. Class Ranked #2
So. Class Ranked #22
Fr. Class Ranked #7

Butch Jones/ Year 3 since everyone has decided he can't win here
Sr. Class ranked #17
Jr. Class Ranked #21
So Class Ranked #5
Fr Class ranked #5


I am not sure if you all have ever looked at our rosters from compaired to our recruiting class for our Sr's and Jr's But let me just name a few that are missing.

Bonner, Bourque, Bowles, Gray, Hill, Howard, King, Lewis, McCullers, Meridith, Patterson, Peterman, Phillips, Sentimore, Taylor, Watson thats from the 2012 class

Here is everyone gone from the 2013 class.

Branisel, Brown, Carr, Ferguson, Harris, Jenkins, Johnon, Jones, Lee, Miller, Quinn

Now with that all being said I would love for some of the fans to pump the breaks just a little. Put a little bit of a prespective on where we are talent wise compaired to the coaches that come in and change things quickly. I can promise Butch jones would have rather came into anyone one of those rosters than what he walked into. If he can continue to have top 5 classes we will win. It does not take a brain scientist to realize how thin we are and that no one wins national championships with out upper classmen!
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You are making comparisons to teams that won championships. We are just talking about winning against weak SEC teams like UF and UArk. Apples and oranges but nice apology for Butch.
 
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#36
#36
DC Vol said:
It's folly to even compare Jones to Natty winning coaches when he blows 2-score leads 3 times in 5 games.

Just... put it to bed. Jones and his questionable OC hire have 7-5 or even 8-4 they can hit given the talent to show they are even middling coaches.

Right now they're squandering talent no matter how hard Jones and the Spin Doctors try to misrepresent the way the season has gone.

Cut the excuses and start winning something. Anything at this point will suffice.
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Sure just keep sticking your head in the sand and ignoring facts. You probably also like Trump for President.

As much as he gets the blame, and deservedly so, for blowing those leads, at least our team was good enough to GET those leads to begin with.

And believe it or not, depth had something to do with losing those leads, at least on D it did.

I know though. It's more fun to just whine and piss and moan and ignore facts. So have at it. :hi:
 
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#38
#38
Derek Dooley is officially a better coach than Butch. The guy who lost to UK in 2011 with a WR playing QB, beat Butch. Just let that sink in for a minute.
 
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#42
#42
Smokey1210 said:
SEC coaches first championship. You would have really hated it if I did all of Saban's and Meyers.
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Why would I have hated it? None of this is evidence that Lyle is a Tennessee- caliber coach.

I'm pretty sure the friction in the fanbase is not due to us not being in a position to win a national title.
 
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#43
#43
DCompagnucci said:
Some folks will go to great lengths to justify poor performance.
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What some of you whiners call "justify" are plain simple FACTS!

Let me give you a few more.

Jones inherited a program that was totally on it's a**. Little talent, extremely low morale, getting ready for academic probation, and had to endure the humiliation of being coached by Dolittle.

Jones has and continues to bring in top caliber recruits! Given the sorry condition of the program when he took over this is a miracle.

It took Majors four years to turn a program around he inherited from Battle. Arguably the program was in worse shape after the Fulmer, Kiffin, and Dolittle debacle of Hamilton.

Without a doubt, Jones has made some poor game time coaching decesions looking at it in hindsight. However, name ONE top tier coach that has not made poor decesions in a game given the heat of the moment.

What losing big leads in the fourth quarter tells me is the team (coaches and players) have not learned how to finish games yet. Why? The obvious answer is we still do not have the DEPTH and EXPERIENCE of top tier teams. On the bright side the TALENT has increased greatly!

All you butt hurt whiners are doing is refusing to accept the facts as to where we are as a program. I am as frustrated as anyone! I want to see this program compete for championships as much as anyone else. However, I do see improvement and I see progress.

All you whiners are doing is endangering us to go back to where we were three years ago. With your whining no quality coach with any sense would come here! Further, you put vol fans reputation right in the gutter and whiners make us the laughing stock of college football.

Go ahead and keep whining right through the next six coaches we hire over the next ten years!! Better idea, if you don't like it go support another team!

This whining is really getting old! Get over yourself!

Flame away negavols! My blood is orange!! I am supporting thie players and coaches until they prove otherwise which will be, at a minimum, the end of next season.

GO VOLS!

:loco:
 
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#44
#44
JonGrudensAgent said:
Trying telling that to this guy:

mcelwain-introduction.jpg


It'd be nice for you and everyone else making this exact same argument....can't win with underclassmen....to get a grip and take a look around the landscape of college football.
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I'd tell him to say thanks to Muschamp.

2012, what would be present day Seniors or RS Juniors, UF Rivals Team rank #3, UT #17

2013, what would be Juniors or RS Sophomores, UF Rivals Team rank #4, UT 21

2014, What would be Sophomores or RS Freshmen, UF Rivals rank #8, UT #5

As someone pointed out in another thread, UT's 2012 class has 7 players left...

On defense they start one freshman 5* CeCe Jefferson other than that they have no true freshmen listed on the 2 Deep, they are loaded with juniors and seniors at least 4 of which are no brainer NFL guys going from early to mid rounds.

We start Fr. Darren Kirkland at MLB and have 4 true freshmen in the 2 deep.

They start one true freshman on offense and have four listed on the two deep. Just like us.


People can keep saying we are more talented because it's your feeling, but there is nothing to back it up, nothing unless the only thing you go by is the 2015 Rivals ranking, UF #23, UT #5...That's it.

The NFL Scouts don't agree with those feelings either.

They are more talented and have more experienced talent and depth. It is what it is. We're getting closer, but we're not there yet.
 
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#46
#46
VolFreakJosh said:
Derek Dooley is officially a better coach than Butch. The guy who lost to UK in 2011 with a WR playing QB, beat Butch. Just let that sink in for a minute.
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What sinks in to me, with your comments, is the fact you know absolutely nothing about evaluating a football program!

:loco:
 
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#47
#47
Anyone ever consider how different these discussions would be if our Kicker could actually make a few kicks?
 
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#48
#48
QuickSmurf said:
I agree with you. Apparently the lack of general football knowledge is severely lacking by some on this site. A freshman and sophomore laden team will never play for an SEC championship. Biology won't allow it. At this moment our program can't afford to even redshirt players.
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How did Florida beat Ole Miss?

Florida has 6 Freshmen or Sophmores starting on offense: 2015 Florida Gators Football Depth Chart | Ourlads.com

They have 2 starters on defense.

Ole Miss has 1 on offense and 3 on defense.
2015 Mississippi Rebels Football Depth Chart | Ourlads.com

You go two deep and Florida adds 9 more on offense, 7 of which are true freshmen. And then 8 to their defense.

Lets not act like freshment and sophmore heavy teams are incapable of winning big games. That only applies to Lyle-coached teams this day and age in the SEC.
 
#49
#49
Smokey1210 said:
There is no hope for you as a person if you honestly think that someone can win in the SEC with freshmen and sophomores. I'd love for someone to post how many Jr. and srs were drafted from those teams that one the championship as well. We won't even be close. Everyone on here needs to just let the guy do his thing. If he can't win with his own Jr and Sr. class then he sucks. But there is no way on earth you can say that right now playing freaking more freshman the last two seasons than any team in the country. Not to mention WE PLAY IN THE SEC!
Click to expand...

1. Why does he have to have "his own players" to win? He can't coach them up? He's choosing to play some seniors over juniors, sophs and freshmen that he's recruited and brought in. Guys like Maggitt, Randolph, McNeil, Lewis, Bynum, Crowder, OBrien and Kerbyson can't be coached to do their jobs? Why not? He's run a helluva lot of guys off so we can only assume the guys left on the team are the best of the bunch, the guys he wanted.

2. As far as juniors/RSSophs on this team...everyone of them belongs to Butch. So if guys like Sutton, JRM, Josh Smith, Vickers, Vereen, Foreman, Kendrick, North and Dobbs aren't getting the job done, with whom does the fault lie? He signed all them.... they've been in his system all 3 years.

3. We played the most freshmen in the country LAST YEAR....those guys are now bigger, stronger experienced sophomores. Guys like Hurd, Wolf, TKJr and Barnett...some of our best players who can't be blamed for holding the team back....guys that were instrumental to getting our 2 TD leads vs OU, Fla and Arky. They can play with just about anybody in this conference. As far as the freshmen who are playing this year....only 2 are starting, and only 6-7 have played significant roles to date in the 2deep on offense or defense.
 
#50
#50
GoVols15 said:
What some of you whiners call "justify" are plain simple FACTS!

Let me give you a few more.

Jones inherited a program that was totally on it's a**. Little talent, extremely low morale, getting ready for academic probation, and had to endure the humiliation of being coached by Dolittle.

Jones has and continues to bring in top caliber recruits! Given the sorry condition of the program when he took over this is a miracle.

It took Majors four years to turn a program around he inherited from Battle. Arguably the program was in worse shape after the Fulmer, Kiffin, and Dolittle debacle of Hamilton.

Without a doubt, Jones has made some poor game time coaching decesions looking at it in hindsight. However, name ONE top tier coach that has not made poor decesions in a game given the heat of the moment.

What losing big leads in the fourth quarter tells me is the team (coaches and players) have not learned how to finish games yet. Why? The obvious answer is we still do not have the DEPTH and EXPERIENCE of top tier teams. On the bright side the TALENT has increased greatly!

All you butt hurt whiners are doing is refusing to accept the facts as to where we are as a program. I am as frustrated as anyone! I want to see this program compete for championships as much as anyone else. However, I do see improvement and I see progress.

All you whiners are doing is endangering us to go back to where we were three years ago. With your whining no quality coach with any sense would come here! Further, you put vol fans reputation right in the gutter and whiners make us the laughing stock of college football.

Go ahead and keep whining right through the next six coaches we hire over the next ten years!! Better idea, if you don't like it go support another team!

This whining is really getting old! Get over yourself!

Flame away negavols! My blood is orange!! I am supporting thie players and coaches until they prove otherwise which will be, at a minimum, the end of next season.

GO VOLS!

:loco:
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I liked your post by accident. I am not flaming you your entitled to what you feel is right. So re we. Explain how ole miss got so good. You think UT was a dumpster fire. They had two wins before freeze got there and 0 talent. I would like to hear how freeze did this in your opinion.
 
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