Grant Hill Retires

#27
#27
VolsSportsFan said:
You mean been an idiot on a motorcycle?
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#29
#29
The player that gives the biggest shot to contend against Hill right now is Luol Deng. The #s are very similar at this point and Deng for the most part has stayed healthy. He's one of the most under respected Bulls players.
 
#32
#32
volfanbill said:
The player that gives the biggest shot to contend against Hill right now is Luol Deng. The #s are very similar at this point and Deng for the most part has stayed healthy. He's one of the most under respected Bulls players.
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Hill's numbers in his prime are much more similar to Cleveland-era LeBron James than they are to Luol Deng.
 
#33
#33
VKAman said:
Hill's numbers in his prime are much more similar to Cleveland-era LeBron James than they are to Luol Deng.
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uhhh no. not close.

Grant Hill averaged over 22 PPG only one time. The only season in which LBJ averaged less than 25 PPG was his rookie season. Grant Hill maybe barely beats him in RPG, but James then is slightly better in APG. Even when James wasn't a great 3 point shooter (AKA, his early days) he still easily was better than Hill. You're just being silly here. I get your point about how good Hill could have been, but this is an absurd comparison.
 
#34
#34
volfanbill said:
uhhh no. not close.

Grant Hill averaged over 22 PPG only one time. The only season in which LBJ averaged less than 25 PPG was his rookie season. Grant Hill maybe barely beats him in RPG, but James then is slightly better in APG. Even when James wasn't a great 3 point shooter (AKA, his early days) he still easily was better than Hill. You're just being silly here. I get your point about how good Hill could have been, but this is an absurd comparison.
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LeBron in Cleveland:
47.4 FG%, 27.8PPG, 7.0RPG, 6.9APG, 1.7SPG

Hill in Detroit:
47.6FG%, 21.6PPG, 7.9RPG, 6.3APG, 1.6SPG

Luol Deng:
46.0FG%, 16.0PPG, 6.4RPG, 2.4APG, 1.0SPG

You tell me.
 
#35
#35
ummm, you're telling me exactly what I told you. James averaged over 6 PPG more. I told you the closest anyone is going to come as far as a K disciple is Luol Deng thus far. Prove me wrong.

James in Cleveland was infinitely better than Hill ever was. That's not a knock on G Hill, it's just Lebron is one of the best players of all time. Ever.
 
#36
#36
volfanbill said:
ummm, you're telling me exactly what I told you. James averaged over 6 PPG more. I told you the closest anyone is going to come as far as a K disciple is Luol Deng thus far. Prove me wrong.
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Do you even realize what you're saying?

You said Luol Deng's numbers are very similar. (They're not.)

I said his numbers are much more similar to Cleveland LeBron than they are to Luol Deng. In 5 of those 6 categories, it's extremely obvious that that's true.

I did not nor will ever say that Grant Hill was as good as LeBron James. But your assertion that Luol Deng's 16 points and 2 assists per game are "similar" to a healthy Grant Hill is flat-out ridiculous.
 
#37
#37
and let's be honest. Grant Hill's prime lasted the only three seasons he was ever fully healthy. Lebron has never played less than 75 games a season. In 19 years, Hill pulled off that feat a measly 6 times. James averages almost 40 minutes/game. Hill was able to pull off a similar average for only those 3 seasons.
 
#38
#38
volfanbill said:
ummm, you're telling me exactly what I told you. James averaged over 6 PPG more. I told you the closest anyone is going to come as far as a K disciple is Luol Deng thus far. Prove me wrong.
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If by "thus far" you mean "in the NBA right now," and by "close" you mean "a good small forward," there really isn't anyone else to compare. But Irving is much closer to a Hill-type talent than Deng is, and the same will be true of Jabari Parker.
 
#39
#39
volfanbill said:
ummm, you're telling me exactly what I told you. James averaged over 6 PPG more. I told you the closest anyone is going to come as far as a K disciple is Luol Deng thus far. Prove me wrong.

James in Cleveland was infinitely better than Hill ever was. That's not a knock on G Hill, it's just Lebron is one of the best players of all time. Ever.
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VKAman said:
I did not nor will ever say that Grant Hill was as good as LeBron James. But your assertion that Luol Deng's 16 points and 2 assists per game are "similar" to a healthy Grant Hill is flat-out ridiculous.
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.
 
#40
#40
VKAman said:
Do you even realize what you're saying?

You said Luol Deng's numbers are very similar. (They're not.)

I said his numbers are much more similar to Cleveland LeBron than they are to Luol Deng. In 5 of those 6 categories, it's extremely obvious that that's true.

I did not nor will ever say that Grant Hill was as good as LeBron James. But your assertion that Luol Deng's 16 points and 2 assists per game are "similar" to a healthy Grant Hill is flat-out ridiculous.
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No, I said they only Duke player that could contend is Luol Deng. Reading is fun. You should try harder to be good at it. You then compared Hill to James, which is ridiculous. I said the #s are similar for Deng and Hill, which they are. Due to the fact that Hill has been plagued by injuries, over half of his career he's averaged less than 16 PPG, many times far less. Deng has been fairly consistent in all categories over his 9 year career in Chicago and his overall run as an NBA Player barring significant injuries will be far more productive than Hill ever dreamed of. Again, not a knock on Grant Hill. Behind Hurley and Wojo, Grant Hill is my third favorite Duke player ever. I hate that his NBA career suffered so much, but you pretending like he's comparable to one of the GOATs is just laughable.
 
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#41
#41
it's blatantly unfair to only count Hill's three seasons he was healthy as his barometer. there is absolutely, positively no way to tell if he could have ever kept that up. Deng has kept his numbers up every single year he has played.
 
#42
#42
volfanbill said:
it's blatantly unfair to only count Hill's three seasons he was healthy as his barometer. there is absolutely, positively no way to tell if he could have ever kept that up. Deng has kept his numbers up every single year he has played.
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I don't know why you keep saying three seasons, but over Hill's six seasons in Detroit he averaged 73 games played. Those six are what I counted.
 
#43
#43
volfanbill said:
uhhh no. not close.

Grant Hill averaged over 22 PPG only one time. The only season in which LBJ averaged less than 25 PPG was his rookie season. Grant Hill maybe barely beats him in RPG, but James then is slightly better in APG. Even when James wasn't a great 3 point shooter (AKA, his early days) he still easily was better than Hill. You're just being silly here. I get your point about how good Hill could have been, but this is an absurd comparison.
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I'd say Hill was closer to Cleveland-era James than he was to Deng, though I think Deng is underrated Hill was a far better passer and was a better rebounder than Deng.
 
#44
#44
so he averaged missing 9 a season? not too good. In his time in Cleveland, Bron Bron didn't even average missing 4 a game.
 
#46
#46
volfanbill said:
No, I said they only Duke player that could contend is Luol Deng. Reading is fun. You should try harder to be good at it. You then compared Hill to James, which is ridiculous. I said the #s are similar for Deng and Hill, which they are. Due to the fact that Hill has been plagued by injuries, over half of his career he's averaged less than 16 PPG, many times far less. Deng has been fairly consistent in all categories over his 9 year career in Chicago and his overall run as an NBA Player barring significant injuries will be far more productive than Hill ever dreamed of. Again, not a knock on Grant Hill. Behind Hurley and Wojo, Grant Hill is my third favorite Duke player ever. I hate that his NBA career suffered so much, but you pretending like he's comparable to one of the GOATs is just laughable.
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I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by comparing Luol Deng's numbers with an old and injured Grant Hill, which is why I specified that Hill in his prime was much closer to the best player alive than he was to Luol Deng (aka, he was nothing like Deng). When you said "uhhh no, not close," you were dead wrong.

Meta-discussions are fun, but I'm not explaining it any more than that.
 
#48
#48
No, Hill's numbers are never close to James' overall. Sure, maybe they are slightly closer to James' while Hill was in his prime (which was ever so short) than they are to Deng's, but the difference isn't that much, but what does that matter? Deng has had a long, proven career, while Hill had a short burst of glory, followed by nothing but heartache. And again, when did James ever play for Duke? The question was the greatest K coached player (james with Team USA obviously doesn't count). For a career, Deng and Hill are right beside each other and he's the closest to Hill for arguing as K's best player in the NBA.
 
#49
#49
Say you went to high school with Skylar McBee and are a huge fan of his (there were a lot of those.) And you say, "OMG, I've never seen a shooter like that. He could have a future in the NBA, I bet he'd at least beat Matt Bonner in a shooting contest."

Then I say, "That's retarded. Bonner is closer to Stephen Curry than he is to Skylar McBee."

Does that mean I'm comparing Bonner to Steph Curry? Saying the Red Rocket is the greatest shooter alive?

No, it just illustrates the point that while Bonner is a level below Curry, McBee is not even in the same zip code as either one.
 
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#50
#50
volfanbill said:
For a career, Deng and Hill are right beside each other and he's the closest to Hill for arguing as K's best player in the NBA.
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I think most people would take Irving; he's a better offensive player and it's not even that close. Deng is a better defender, but I don't think he's good enough to make up the difference and will never be regarded as a superstar the way Kyrie will.
 
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