Government Jobs

#52
#52
oklavol said:
Instead of accounting I would recommend you get a computer science degree with a minor in languages (Arabic). Also definitely military service in a branch that involves intelligence gathering like communications in the Army.

West Point would be a good choice if you qualify to get in. With the war, the number of applications they get has been down.

Also keep your credit report clean as you can.
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Agree, but change the Arabic to Chinese.
 
#53
#53
oklavol said:
Instead of accounting I would recommend you get a computer science degree with a minor in languages (Arabic). Also definitely military service in a branch that involves intelligence gathering like communications in the Army.
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I would have to patently disagree; most government agencies with intimate knowledge of the military know that MI Lieutenants do little to nothing of substance and/or circumstance. The only plus to MI or some Signal positions is that you will have a TS clearance as an LT; however, a Secret with actual combat leadership experience takes precedence over a TS with little to no leadership experience any day.
 
#54
#54
therealUT said:
I would have to patently disagree; most government agencies with intimate knowledge of the military know that MI Lieutenants do little to nothing of substance and/or circumstance. The only plus to MI or some Signal positions is that you will have a TS clearance as an LT; however, a Secret with actual combat leadership experience takes precedence over a TS with little to no leadership experience any day.
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Truth
 
#55
#55
VOLatile said:
Understatement. I got interviewed by the FBI for someone that I used to work with that I barely knew that was being recruited by the FBI out of Iowa State.
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I'm pretty sure I'm blacklisted from any government jobs, I once checked out the Anarchist Cookbook from a library.
 
#56
#56
therealUT said:
I would have to patently disagree; most government agencies with intimate knowledge of the military know that MI Lieutenants do little to nothing of substance and/or circumstance. The only plus to MI or some Signal positions is that you will have a TS clearance as an LT; however, a Secret with actual combat leadership experience takes precedence over a TS with little to no leadership experience any day.
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Definitely. As someone who wants a federal LE job sometime in the future I've researched a lot of this stuff. Accounting or computer science would help a lot with FBI. They prefer more intellectual types than former police officers. Military experience can only help but not sure how necessary it is.

I've heard USMS and others like possibly DEA, ATF would be a better fit if you have prior law enforcement, and probably military, experience. I've heard the Marshals still like CJ majors, but like others have said you'd be better off with something different. FLETC will teach you all the criminal justice you'd need. Even to get hired onto a city PD, you'd be better off with an accounting degree than a CJ one.

Foreign language and military intel would be better if you're trying to work for the CIA or NSA, which are not law enforcement.
 
#57
#57
therealUT said:
I would have to patently disagree; most government agencies with intimate knowledge of the military know that MI Lieutenants do little to nothing of substance and/or circumstance. The only plus to MI or some Signal positions is that you will have a TS clearance as an LT; however, a Secret with actual combat leadership experience takes precedence over a TS with little to no leadership experience any day.
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a little harsh on the S-2 shop
 
#58
#58
vol_in_il said:
a little harsh on the S-2 shop
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Not at all; at the BN level, my primary S-2s and S-2 NCOICs were great. However, they had leadership experience (every BN and BDE S-2 I worked with was branch detailed and spent their LT time in either Armor or Infantry). LTs in 2 shops usually share duties as Asst. S-2. It is a non-leadership position with very little responsibility for an LT.
 
#59
#59
born-n-raisedvol said:
Thats a fun test. Definitely an interesting way to spend a few hours. Thankfully when I took it I didn't have to meet with a psychologist afterwards. Several I knew that also took it had to though. Guess I "passed" with no need for further evaluation.
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i was randomly flagged for the pscyhologist visit. it had nothing to do with my answers according to the shrink. i have heard that if you have a record of any kind that they will automatically flag you to see the shrink. again, that is for nuclear access. i am not sure how the rest of the government evaluates. the good news is, that as long as i retain my access annually, i never have to go through that mess again.
 
#61
#61
therealUT said:
Not at all; at the BN level, my primary S-2s and S-2 NCOICs were great. However, they had leadership experience (every BN and BDE S-2 I worked with was branch detailed and spent their LT time in either Armor or Infantry). LTs in 2 shops usually share duties as Asst. S-2. It is a non-leadership position with very little responsibility for an LT.
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Not sure when you got out, but all of that changed with the various wars of late--lots going on at the Bn 2 shop and the LTs are doing a lot more these days--much more combat related than in the past(of course when I was an MI LT assigned as the S2 for 5-14 Infantry{'88-90!} I had a lot of responsibility:thumbsup:).

Anyway, for the OP, the degrees you want to look at are Economics (not accounting, though it helps as a minor), business, international relations, hard sciences and languages before Criminal Justice. Yes a law degree helps set you apart, but you also need to be in great shape physically, a good problem solver and willing to work very long hours.

Over the years I've seen people enter federal law enforcement from the following military areas:
Army/Marines: Combat Arms, MP, MI(mostly counter intel) and a JAG officer
Navy: Surface warfare and intel (crypies and HUMINT) and NCIS
AF: Mostly AF OSI

I've also seen them enter via the state police academy followed by police experience or sheriff's experience--but not many as those are career paths all their own.

Not sure which are the easiest to get into (and recommend you don't ask that question to anyone in those agencies) but some things to consider. The FBI considers themselve to be the cream and in some respects they are right. They do a wider range of activities from Econ crime to hostage rescue etc. They were part of my team in Afghanistan and many were true heroes.
DEA-shoot first and count bags later.
US Marshals-Fugitive apprehension is a tough mission and they are good at it, however, their bread and butter is transport and judicial protection which can be tedious.
Don't overlook Homeland Security, ICE (some very good investigators in Customs), Treasury Dept, State Dept, etc., even the Interior Dept has law enforcement officers/investigators. These agencies are some other ways into the federal or international world of law enforcement.

Good luck!:salute:
 
#62
#62
YorkVol said:
Not sure when you got out, but all of that changed with the various wars of late--lots going on at the Bn 2 shop and the LTs are doing a lot more these days--much more combat related than in the past(of course when I was an MI LT assigned as the S2 for 5-14 Infantry{'88-90!}
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Took my ETS leave at the end of the summer; ETS was in November.

LTs in 2 shops do nothing but build power point slides.
 
#63
#63
therealUT said:
Took my ETS leave at the end of the summer; ETS was in November.

LTs in 2 shops do nothing but build power point slides.
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About a year behind you myself, but the S-2 shop did about the same. Well, except for the occasional go out on a patrol and work the BAT/HIIDE system so they could get a suntan.
 
#64
#64
I defer to your more recent experience, I retired in 2008. We had prototypes of the BAT/HIIDE and a bunch of other toys we played with in Afghanistan and I had LTs slinging loads into some remote bases and then living there. Then again, I had a bunch of powerpoint Rangers also. . .
 
#65
#65
YorkVol said:
I defer to your more recent experience, I retired in 2008. We had prototypes of the BAT/HIIDE and a bunch of other toys we played with in Afghanistan and I had LTs slinging loads into some remote bases and then living there. Then again, I had a bunch of powerpoint Rangers also. . .
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A battalion can't function without at least 1 per shop.
 
#66
#66
YorkVol said:
I defer to your more recent experience, I retired in 2008. We had prototypes of the BAT/HIIDE and a bunch of other toys we played with in Afghanistan and I had LTs slinging loads into some remote bases and then living there. Then again, I had a bunch of powerpoint Rangers also. . .
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I'm not knocking 2 shops, per se. In my experience, though, I have never seen a 2 shop LT in an IN BN or BDE that does anything other than build the BUB slide and breif weather and light data.

If you are an O in an IN BN, and you are not Primary Staff, CHOPs, or in a Green Tab position, you are not doing a whole lot during deployments; definitely not leading anyone.
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#68
#68
vol_in_il said:
What's your thought on you Air Force Combat control team..
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Brave and highly capable in a very high risk job. When they get it right, lots of bad stuff happens to bad people, when they get it wrong, that bad stuff happens to good people(i.e. us or civilians). I've walked many Ks with them and would rate them as some of the best people I know.

But, for sheer unfiltered bravery and self sacrifice, AF PJs are it. I once saw a team do a rough terrain jump from 25k feet onto a 100'x100' DZ that was at 17k feet with 2 duffles of cold weather gear to save the lives of a bunch of UN staffers and a civilian MI-17 crew. Had they missed the DZ they would have spent a month trying to find their way out of the Hindu Kush. large and brass.
 
#69
#69
therealUT said:
I'm not knocking 2 shops, per se. In my experience, though, I have never seen a 2 shop LT in an IN BN or BDE that does anything other than build the BUB slide and breif weather and light data.

If you are an O in an IN BN, and you are not Primary Staff, CHOPs, or in a Green Tab position, you are not doing a whole lot during deployments; definitely not leading anyone.
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I can buy that. I guess it may come down to how good the 2 is and how active the LT. I was the 2 as a 1LT and was by myself, so I did a lot (plus no powerpoint in those days) outside of the TOC and my 2 NCOs and 2 troops had to do the briefings. In my later years as a G2/J2 I saw a lot of good LTs out doing hard stuff, but for the most part their duties were just what you say, tracking the battle and briefing the boss.
 
#70
#70
YorkVol said:
I can buy that. I guess it may come down to how good the 2 is and how active the LT. I was the 2 as a 1LT and was by myself, so I did a lot (plus no powerpoint in those days) outside of the TOC and my 2 NCOs and 2 troops had to do the briefings. In my later years as a G2/J2 I saw a lot of good LTs out doing hard stuff, but for the most part their duties were just what you say, tracking the battle and briefing the boss.
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You said '88-'90? Back then, it was what, 48-52 months from commissioning to O-3, right? There was a span in the past five years where some guys were pinning on CPT at less than 36 months.

You, as a 1LT in '90, had much more experience in the Army than some of these guys have as young CPTs.
 
#71
#71
YorkVol said:
I can buy that. I guess it may come down to how good the 2 is and how active the LT. I was the 2 as a 1LT and was by myself, so I did a lot (plus no powerpoint in those days) outside of the TOC and my 2 NCOs and 2 troops had to do the briefings. In my later years as a G2/J2 I saw a lot of good LTs out doing hard stuff, but for the most part their duties were just what you say, tracking the battle and briefing the boss.
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I bet Harvard Graphics was in use...
 
#72
#72
therealUT said:
You said '88-'90? Back then, it was what, 48-52 months from commissioning to O-3, right? There was a span in the past five years where some guys were pinning on CPT at less than 36 months.

You, as a 1LT in '90, had much more experience in the Army than some of these guys have as young CPTs.
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I didn't realize that from O-1 to 0-3 had moved to 36 months...

I did a full 3 and half years in Germany and didn't pin on Capatin, until well into the Advance Course, that was around 93-94
 
#73
#73
blupotato said:
i was randomly flagged for the pscyhologist visit. it had nothing to do with my answers according to the shrink. i have heard that if you have a record of any kind that they will automatically flag you to see the shrink. again, that is for nuclear access. i am not sure how the rest of the government evaluates. the good news is, that as long as i retain my access annually, i never have to go through that mess again.
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Mine, too, was for nuclear access. I had an internship with TVA Nuclear and, in my time there, not once did I require unsupervised access. All that test did is make me aware of some of the crazy things the test creators had obviously heard before.
 
#75
#75
vol_in_il said:
I didn't realize that from O-1 to 0-3 had moved to 36 months...

I did a full 3 and half years in Germany and didn't pin on Capatin, until well into the Advance Course, that was around 93-94
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I was year group 85, ead in June, pinned on O3 in Dec 89, 54 months.
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