Good day today.

[BeardedVol]

You are really going to argue that Worley was highly recruited? And surely you keep up with recruiting enough to know that offers are often conditional. None of those schools were pushing hard for Worley.

I don't know how hard they recruited him, but he had offers from every one of those schools, and he was a starter at UT, over other QBs on the roster while he was here up until the moment he got hurt

LOL! So you are arguing that athleticism doesn't transfer from HS to college? Well, that is a new one.

LOL! So you are arguing that watching a QB behind a high school oline, facing a high school defense is a prime indicator as to how he is going to perform behind a poorly coached oline with SEC defenses trying to sack him?

Not if you want to keep your own offensive philosophy in place. I would imagine Butch would have talked to other OCs that might have similar offensive philosophies to gauge their interests.

So you honestly believe that Debord gave Jones a date that he was leaving ahead of time, and Jones just said "ok buddy" and went about his day and never started planning for hiring a new OC? Again, if that's the case, Jones has serious personnel management issues, but I don't think that's what happened. Debord knows exactly what this offense is going to look like next year given the loss of Dobbs/Hurd/Kamara, and he got out while he left when he could get the most money possible from another school.

I get it. You don't like Butch.

I get it. You can't be objective in your evaluation of a coach because you are emotionally invested in liking the person more so than the program.

You're right. I've never sat through an Amway speel. The one time a guy tried I showed him to the door before he could waste either of our time. Which is sort of where we are at in this back and forth. Wasting each other's time. I know how you feel about the staff, you know how I feel.

What can I say, I have some gullible friends, but even they wouldn't try to defend Don Mahoney's body of work at UT.

Right now my only real complaint with Butch was staff-wise is his not hiring a true S&C coach after he got rid of Lawson before this season. I think Azzani is better than VN gives him credit for (the WR corp was much better this season as WRs stayed healthy and Malone got his head in the game 100%). And I think Mahoney is better than VN thinks. He has had to do way too much plugging players into spots that haven't been their natural positions the last couple of seasons. Having said that I would have no problem with Butch bringing someone in if the guy is a really elite OL coach because I would agree that Mahoney is not an elite coach, but I do believe he has a lot of barriers to overcome, what with injuries and lack of depth.

Azzani and Canales are in the same boat. If you give them already talented players, then can sort of maintain that level of talent, but that's all you are going to get. They aren't going to be developing any 3-stars into 4-stars, and that's the problem with them being coaches at UT; Butch loves 3-star recruits. Mahoney, and Martinez are just over-all bad coaches at their positions, and there's 4 seasons worth of tape that shows that, and much more if you want to look at their tenures at other schools.

When Butch is let go from his position as HBC, it's going to be because he believed his system was infallible and refused to modify it to fit the strengths of the players, and because he retained position coaches who were not able to get the job done.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

I don't know how hard they recruited him, but he had offers from every one of those schools, and he was a starter at UT, over other QBs on the roster while he was here up until the moment he got hurt

Yep, Worley beat out some quality QBs while he was here. And for the record, I thought Worley was one tough kid and a VFL. Unfortunately he was just an average QB. And I do agree that Worley often feared for his life in the pocket, but he compounded his problems with his slow release and inability to sense pressure (even when he knew it was coming).

LOL! So you are arguing that watching a QB behind a high school oline, facing a high school defense is a prime indicator as to how he is going to perform behind a poorly coached oline with SEC defenses trying to sack him?

I never saw QD play HS ball, but his video does show he has a quick release and that he can move. And I am going by what analysts said about him being an athletic QB, albeit a pocket QB.

So you honestly believe that Debord gave Jones a date that he was leaving ahead of time, and Jones just said "ok buddy" and went about his day and never started planning for hiring a new OC? Again, if that's the case, Jones has serious personnel management issues, but I don't think that's what happened. Debord knows exactly what this offense is going to look like next year given the loss of Dobbs/Hurd/Kamara, and he got out while he left when he could get the most money possible from another school.

Stick with that theory if it makes you happy.

I get it. You can't be objective in your evaluation of a coach because you are emotionally invested in liking the person more so than the program.

I'll be the first to admit I am a Butch supporter. But for the life of me I can't understand why some of our fanbase seem to openly want Butch to fail and start the process over.

What can I say, I have some gullible friends, but even they wouldn't try to defend Don Mahoney's body of work at UT.

Oh well.

Azzani and Canales are in the same boat. If you give them already talented players, then can sort of maintain that level of talent, but that's all you are going to get. They aren't going to be developing any 3-stars into 4-stars, and that's the problem with them being coaches at UT; Butch loves 3-star recruits. Mahoney, and Martinez are just over-all bad coaches at their positions, and there's 4 seasons worth of tape that shows that, and much more if you want to look at their tenures at other schools.

Yes, when you dislike coaches failures are on him and successes are on the players. 100% of all coaches are better coaches when they have better players.

When Butch is let go from his position as HBC, it's going to be because he believed his system was infallible and refused to modify it to fit the strengths of the players, and because he retained position coaches who were not able to get the job done.

We'll see down the road.

 

[Tin Man]

It never ceases to amaze me how many of you simply cannot leave politics to the PF. Compelled to poison every damn well, aren't you?

Fandom is a refuge. Hold true to that or GTFO.

 

[BeardedVol]

Yep, Worley beat out some quality QBs while he was here. And for the record, I thought Worley was one tough kid and a VFL. Unfortunately he was just an average QB. And I do agree that Worley often feared for his life in the pocket, but he compounded his problems with his slow release and inability to sense pressure (even when he knew it was coming).

How is any QB, if he isn't Josh Dobbs or someone just like him, supposed to handle the defense being int he backfield 1 second after the snap? Again, go look at Peterman's stats once he got out from behind a Mahoney-coached Oline.

I never saw QD play HS ball, but his video does show he has a quick release and that he can move. And I am going by what analysts said about him being an athletic QB, albeit a pocket QB.

He's not Josh Dobbs athletic, or Baker Mayfield slippery, which is what it will take to survive behind the line without a new oline coach.

Stick with that theory if it makes you happy.

Because OC at Indiana > OC at Tennessee? That seems more logical to you? He's not "retiring", and this I'm going to Indiana to be closer to my family is laughable.

I'll be the first to admit I am a Butch supporter. But for the life of me I can't understand why some of our fanbase seem to openly want Butch to fail and start the process over.

I did support Butch, he had 4 seasons to prove that he could succeed in the SEC. It's not that I wanted him to fail, it's that he has failed. He failed to meet the expectations that he set out for himself. He literally set the bar himself, and failed to reach it. That's on him for his stubbornness, his ridiculous belief that his system is infallible, and loyalty to coaches to do not perform their duties up to the caliber necessary to win in this conference. When he's fired, and he will be fired from the job at Tennessee, it will be because of his own decisions, not fan reactions on a message board.

 

[temptn]

I wish that anytime someone started a positive thread an alternative thread would also be created so that all the complainers could take their daily dumps there instead of crapping in every positive thread that gets started.

Amen

 

[temptn]

obviously a very divided country like ive never witnessed

Obviously not around in the 60's

 

[Crazy Ivan]

How is any QB, if he isn't Josh Dobbs or someone just like him, supposed to handle the defense being int he backfield 1 second after the snap? Again, go look at Peterman's stats once he got out from behind a Mahoney-coached Oline.




He's not Josh Dobbs athletic, or Baker Mayfield slippery, which is what it will take to survive behind the line without a new oline coach.



Because OC at Indiana > OC at Tennessee? That seems more logical to you? He's not "retiring", and this I'm going to Indiana to be closer to my family is laughable.



I did support Butch, he had 4 seasons to prove that he could succeed in the SEC. It's not that I wanted him to fail, it's that he has failed. He failed to meet the expectations that he set out for himself. He literally set the bar himself, and failed to reach it. That's on him for his stubbornness, his ridiculous belief that his system is infallible, and loyalty to coaches to do not perform their duties up to the caliber necessary to win in this conference. When he's fired, and he will be fired from the job at Tennessee, it will be because of his own decisions, not fan reactions on a message board.

I will leave the floor to you. I think we are essentially just repeating ourselves now, and I don't want to muck up the thread anymore than we already have. My apologies to everyone for that, including you. We both want the Vols to be successful; we're just disagreeing on the finer points. Go Vols.