Good article at explaining things

[Vercingetorix]

You are taking it too literal. Because we place so much emphasis on football, we have casual basketball fans. To maximize success and money, we need to engage those "fringe" fans. Winning is very much a part of that. But, Hubbs is also saying that, at UT, we also need a coach who has all of the qualities that I mentioned above- charisma, relates to you, will be on radio shows, etc. Basically, a clone of Butch Jones. We don't have to have a "circus" or "chest painting" but UT needs more than just a basketball coach. Pretty simple.

I simply disagree with this. If Cuonzo had been a better basketball coach, and we'd been to the tournament all three years and stayed in the top 25 all year, his personality would have been a non-issue. If Bruce Pearl had been a worse basketball coach, and he'd never taken us to the tournament and had a losing record or two, his personality would have been a non-issue too -- he'd have been fired and he'd be remembered as fondly as Derek Dooley's orange pants. Winning is all the personality you need.

I also don't see why you place so much importance on wooing our supposedly casual, football-obsessed fans when we've been top 10 in attendance forever. The support has always been there; it doesn't need to be cultivated. It just needs a winner to root for.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Give the fan base a coach that has a little passion during the Game. I don't mean Bob Knight type, but a technical or at least riding the Ref.

Martin had a usual way of riding the refs, he drove his points across but avoided the conflict which can hurt and help the team.

Yea, light a fire under everybody's A$$es on the bench and you will not last very long but Pearl was passionate in the open. The only time we saw Martin passionate with the players was post game pictures and I will say the commercial he did was good to see.

There was probably more to it than we will know but the bottom line was run take the money and run. Martin was smarter than will will know.

Two things that have come up in most every article was the the Petition and the Player reactions.

The Petition was foreshadowing what appeared to be a likely scenario of how the Vols would finish the rest of the season. 1 and done in the SEC and off to the NIT. If that happen there was no way Martin was going to retain his job. If he was done the possibility of a Pearl hire existed all the fans wanted was Pearl to be considered. Honestly, I think most of us settled in for next year with Martin before that trip to AZ and the the 7 ft 1 commitment.

Just give me a coach with passion and it doesn't have to be a side show.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

You must not remember the decades before Pearl. You have no idea how empty TBA or awful man's basketball can get. Our repeated coaching failures and on court failures in basketball should be all the proof you need to know that consistently grabbing turnaround talent is far from easy. Hell most of UT's basketball history has been mediocre and some of it has been flatout awful. It's only been the last decade that it was watchable/good.

Unless you think UT men's basketball is suddenly going to turn into UK's and routinely make the final 4 and win Championships, you have to find a way to get butts into seats and keep them there and right now THAT is a priority for the AD. Further, until and unless a dominant program is built we're not going to be grabbing all the 5* talent that turns programs around in a blink and keeps them on top. UT has a great basketball tradition but we do not have an elite tradition and being good is a relatively new thing for UT. Whoever is hired is going to have to put in the hard work to build a dominant program rather than rely on landing classes like UK gets - those kind of classes will come when the wins do.

We're not so fortunate as to be able to rely on the magic bullet of a single class right now - those classes go to schools who have a much bigger tradition in winning. Instead, it's hard work for us.

We didn't get anywhere before Pearl because Doug Dickey was the AD, and he didn't give 2 craps about basketball.

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

I simply disagree with this. If Cuonzo had been a better basketball coach, and we'd been to the tournament all three years and stayed in the top 25 all year, his personality would have been a non-issue. If Bruce Pearl had been a worse basketball coach, and he'd never taken us to the tournament and had a losing record or two, his personality would have been a non-issue too -- he'd have been fired and he'd be remembered as fondly as Derek Dooley's orange pants. Winning is all the personality you need.

I also don't see why you place so much importance on wooing our supposedly casual, football-obsessed fans when we've been top 10 in attendance forever. The support has always been there; it doesn't need to be cultivated. It just needs a winner to root for.

THIS is what I've been trying to say...thnx for saying it better than I :good!:

 

[Vercingetorix]

You must not remember the decades before Pearl. You have no idea how empty TBA or awful man's basketball can get. Our repeated coaching failures and on court failures in basketball should be all the proof you need to know that consistently grabbing turnaround talent is far from easy. Hell most of UT's basketball history has been mediocre and some of it has been flatout awful. It's only been the last decade that it was watchable/good.

Unless you think UT men's basketball is suddenly going to turn into UK's and routinely make the final 4 and win Championships, you have to find a way to get butts into seats and keep them there and right now THAT is a priority for the AD. Further, until and unless a dominant program is built we're not going to be grabbing all the 5* talent that turns programs around in a blink and keeps them on top. UT has a great basketball tradition but we do not have an elite tradition and being good is a relatively new thing for UT. Whoever is hired is going to have to put in the hard work to build a dominant program rather than rely on landing classes like UK gets - those kind of classes will come when the wins do.

We're not so fortunate as to be able to rely on the magic bullet of a single class right now - those classes go to schools who have a much bigger tradition in winning. Instead, it's hard work for us.

I've been going to games since Ray Mears was the coach. I was there for the Houston years. I'm familiar with our history.

You don't have to be a blueblood program to turn things around quickly. Ten years ago, Ohio state was sub .500 and on probation. They hired a coach from Xavier. Two years later, they were in the second round of the NCAAs. A year after that, they beat us on the way to the title game. Thad Matta, incidentally, is another successful coach at a football school who is decidedly not a showman.

It doesn't take a magic bullet. It just takes the right hire. Would we really pass on someone like Gregg Marshall because he's not enough of a salesman? It sounds like Hubbs and many of you would say yes.

 

[MrBiggles]

Martin took a team that was in the NCAA tourney for six straight years to the NIT twice and 1 appearance in the NCAA tourney. It was looking like he was going to get fired early in the year, but he managed to get his players to play. What it looks like now is that he took advantage of the situation to get a better deal.

 

[VolGee4]

Yes, the way that you're waving around Billy Donovan's coaching seminars as though they're in any way comparable to the sort of rah-rah public cheerleading efforts Hubbs wrote about is a pretty good indicator that we're never going to get anywhere.

Yep. Billy Donovan must be one dull individual. Again, taking it too literal.

 

[Poppa T]

I simply disagree with this. If Cuonzo had been a better basketball coach, and we'd been to the tournament all three years and stayed in the top 25 all year, his personality would have been a non-issue. If Bruce Pearl had been a worse basketball coach, and he'd never taken us to the tournament and had a losing record or two, his personality would have been a non-issue too -- he'd have been fired and he'd be remembered as fondly as Derek Dooley's orange pants. Winning is all the personality you need.

I also don't see why you place so much importance on wooing our supposedly casual, football-obsessed fans when we've been top 10 in attendance forever. The support has always been there; it doesn't need to be cultivated. It just needs a winner to root for.

Yes, winning is the great equalizer, but that is not something we have achieved on a consistent basis of late.

Being able to effectively communicate internally and externally at all levels (alumni, students, boosters, fans, external media, etc) is a skill that a head coach in a revenue generating college sport should have. Given the nature of college sports, (IMO) a head coach must also be able to articulate his passion for the school and the program to all stakeholders.

BTW ... we have not been "top 10 in (basketball) attendance forever."
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attendanceYBYtop25.pdf

 

[VolGee4]

I simply disagree with this. If Cuonzo had been a better basketball coach, and we'd been to the tournament all three years and stayed in the top 25 all year, his personality would have been a non-issue. If Bruce Pearl had been a worse basketball coach, and he'd never taken us to the tournament and had a losing record or two, his personality would have been a non-issue too -- he'd have been fired and he'd be remembered as fondly as Derek Dooley's orange pants. Winning is all the personality you need.

I also don't see why you place so much importance on wooing our supposedly casual, football-obsessed fans when we've been top 10 in attendance forever. The support has always been there; it doesn't need to be cultivated. It just needs a winner to root for.

Just tell this to Jerry Green. Maybe people didn't like that he didn't win enough, but he is a perfect example of someone who "won" who was not in favor of the fans. Fans need someone to like and to root for. Winning is certainly part of that, and I think both issues go hand and hand. Usually someone who is energetic and charismatic is also a winner.

But our fans have shown that they don't always support a "winner." You might say that is just one example, but Hubbs laid our history out in his article. Disagree all you want, but our fans want to be engaged. You can say all you want about attendance, but what about Joe in Memphis who can't attend a game? Would he be more engaged and buy basketball apparel following a charismatic coach or a boring coach? Money is just not generated from attendance at games. Pearl had fringe fans from across the country interested in the program and talking it up.

I agree that winning is an integral part. It is first on the list, but having a coach that I describe is even better. JMO, and I know everyone will not agree.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Jerry Green was a flat-out jackass who never coached again despite having been to the tournament four years in a row. Hubbs is being disingenuous by using that as an example, unless he thinks that Vol fans' desperate need to be entertained was so powerful that it destroyed Green's whole career.

Don DeVoe was as bland as they come and Vol fans packed Stokely to the rafters while he was winning. I guess Hubbs forgot about that.

 

[goodnight_vol]

Jerry Green was a flat-out jackass who never coached again despite having been to the tournament four years in a row. Hubbs is being disingenuous by using that as an example, unless he thinks that Vol fans' desperate need to be entertained was so powerful that it destroyed Green's whole career.

Don DeVoe was as bland as they come and Vol fans packed Stokely to the rafters while he was winning. I guess Hubbs forgot about that.

On that subject, you're going to love this piece from Mr. SEC that basically says UT is a toxic job because we fired DeVoe and Green, who were winners!

Martin's Departure Has Tennessee Chasing Its Tail Again - MrSEC.com | SEC Football News | SEC Basketball News | SEC Football Recruiting | SEC Basketball Recruiting

Maybe we could take this thread in the direction of criticizing a new article.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Actually not a good article at all.

A) Green was ran out because he was a straight up ******* to the fan base. To the point of contempt. He was also far more successful than Martin, so combining their records is Hubbs trying to sell a bill of goods vs what Martin actually was here.

B) You need to win here. If you can do that and not insult the fans, you'll be fine. DeVoe was loved here when he was winning. Stokley was packed. He had the Anti-Mears personality.

C) Martin bailed. He wasn't fired. He quit, ran away. Saw the writing on the wall. Cashed in his chips. Any other cliche is fitting. His recruiting didn't have us in a position to maintain.

D) Most of the fan fervor had calmed down once we went on the winning streak. The fans didn't want sweet 16 Martin fired. They wanted "here we go again" Martin fired. Even his most ardent supporters on here said they were done after A&M pt 2.

I don't give one damn about unicycles or chest painting. I does help to do things like give a shout out to students. To reach back to the past and bring in former Vol legends. To be personable and get guest slots on shows like PTI. That raises your profile and aids in recruiting.

Recruit good players. Win basketball games. Don't commit dumbass violations. Don't go out of your way to insult the fan base.

Do those things and you'll be loved here. Lose games, fail to make the NCAAs year after year, you'll feel heat. It happens at every single school in every major conference that gives a whit about basketball.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[VolArmy74]

I think he has a very good point about entertainment. UT is a football school, and people attend for the event but also have a passion for winning. UT has some casual basketball fans. Winning is very important, but you also must have an element of entertainment and of showmanship. In this day and age of technology and people deciding where to spend money, you need a brand, you need a product, and you need marketing. You have to have a coach who at least participates in some of this.

I agree that winning is a key factor, but Jerry Green turned on the fans because he was catching heat for not doing better. He did it because he was tired of the criticism. We can argue all day about his true coaching (or lack thereof), but he and Martin are good examples of above average coaches who couldn't thrive at UT. We need a good coach, but we also need a guy who is charismatic.

Fans turned on Jerry when his teams showed 0 discipline and Tony Harris, too injured to play, sprinted off the bench in street clothes to fight. After that the heat really got turned up and he started firing off insults to the fan base.

 

[PerneVedisUncool]

The only issue I have with that article is the fact they used Green’s statistics to elevate Gonzos. Put his statistics alone and they are not that impressive.
Our fan base is getting absolutely shredded in the media. Pat Forde’s article was way out of line and filled with baseless opinions, skewed statistics, purposefully omitted statistics, and shortsightedness. Most of the criticism is undeserved. Next year, if we have a poor season, every asinine journalist will post an article about how our program would have been in better shape if we had not run Gonzo off.
This is another article that I believe properly characterizes the situation: Cuonzo Martin and Tennessee parting ways is good for everyone involved | NBC Sports

Lol who cares **** the media. #seriously **** em

 

[Fijivol72]

I don't think the fans need a circus clown but they do need a coach that let's the fans know how important they are. That breeds an enthusiasm that carries over to recruiting. We have no better example than Butch Jones. Martin gave everyone the impression he didn't give a crap what they thought, and just listen to his tone in press conferences and it all has a cumulative affect.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

The head coach must create an identity, a brand that breaths and lives. It's something a fan has to feel not only when he or she walks into the arena, but also when they visit with the coach at a caravan stop or a radio show.

Or...he can win a lot of games and make it to the NCAA tourney better than a 1 out of 3 average. And maybe occassionally win an SEC tourney. Dumb article by Hubbs.