Give Butch a chance to right the ship.

#176
#176
volnal said:
The VT win is looking better by the week. Tired of hearing VT gave UT the game, just as UT gave the gave away against A&M...(Horse $hit). 4 turnovers from VT were either hat's on the ball, strips, or hard hits that caused the turn over. A&M, same could be said for 3 but the rest were just players not protecting the ball, and Dobbs not falling on the ball instead of trying to do too much. I love Josh, but he was his worst enemy in that game as well as the SC game.
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Dobbs pick in OT was solely on him. Two fumbles would have been wiped out had Dobbs fell on the ball and not tried to pick it up and run. We gave that game away like candy.
 
#177
#177
jakez4ut said:
i understand the sentiment. but i'm to the point now where, while i fully acknowledge all the good he's done building this program back up to respectability, i no longer believe he's the guy that can get us to the point where we're competing regularly at the top of the conference.

so with all the good that comes along with him, the bad has been equally consistent. which will make any season he's the HC a ?. and if things continue down the current path, the chances that he can keep up all the good off the field drastically reduce.

i'm not going to rail on butch or call for his head after every little thing....but he's not the guy. he's been the right guy up to this point. but i believe we've hit the ceiling for what this program can do under his leadership. and i thank him for what he's done.
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Jake... my feelings as well.. proud as hell of this team and Butch when they took down Florida, Tennessee needed that.. but the writing is on the wall.. eventually the snowball that Butch built is slowly melting..
 
#178
#178
The Tall Gguy said:
NegaVols need to accept that we are a mediocre team? Did I really see someone post that?

Wow. We have been beaten down so badly over the past decade...now we forgot what it is like to actually compete for championships.

REALITY CHECK... we were supposed to win the SEC East, have a great chance to win the SECCG, and be a playoff contender.

Thanks to coaching, we will not meet any of those goals (unless Florida implodes).
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Unfortunately you did... these sheep believe we can only win 6-8 games a year and be satisfied.. why not win the east and be right there in the mix every year.. but some are jus satisfied by the music city bowl..
 
#179
#179
He will be given a chance to right the ship no doubt but that doesn't mean he will. I hope he does because UT does not need another coaching search.
 
#181
#181
Wylo said:
The fact that Butch has to "right the ship" during what was widely expected to be a championship season(possible SEC and playoff contenders) should tell you everything you need to know about our Big East coach.

That doesn't happen with good coaches.
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Especially when the warning signs have been there for all to see ever since the fumbled kickoff against Appy State.
 
#182
#182
FWIW most captains attempt to right the ship while it is still mostly on the surface. CBJ will still be trying to right his while it is sitting on the seafloor.
 
#184
#184
He will get an opportunity to make it right, its just frustrating with the amount of talent, yet combined with hurt players, jerks like hurd and Kongobo being el-bust-o and bad coaches on the staff, butch has a lot of work to do..I dont see another HBC fixing it anyway so stay with the buzz cut
 
#185
#185
I have gotten over my angst and fury enough to say that I won't bail on CBJ yet. But I would fully expect that he learns something from this debacle and does things differently from here on out. Bottom lines: 1) if Hurd was an ongoing problem, it should have been dealt with decisively before it exploded 2) the turnovers, slow starts,and penalties show a shocking and inexcusable lack of preparation and discipline by the staff 3) the inflexibility in making adjustments in personal and schemes on the offensive side of the ball show a disturbing stubbornness on the part of the relevant staff and 4) the avalanche of injuries is so statistically improbable as to indicate serious deficiencies in the strength and conditioning program and to show a staggering lack of the development of player physicality.

All 4 of these fall squarely on CBJ and his staff for which he is ultimately responsible.

His "everything is fine" mantra at yesterday's press conference was a troubling omen for me that he either doesn't see the depth and seriousness of these issues or else that he thinks a mere tweaking of the current way things are done is all that is needed.

I would hope that we see some changes in he things that can be changed in the short term over the next four weeks. And I would hope to see wholesale reconstruction during the offseason. Time to pull down several courses of those bricks and relay them on the quick.
 
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#186
#186
Skizer41 said:
No you didn't read that. You read that NegaVols need to adjust their expectations and support what we have. Not what you want to have. We are not a top 5 program in the country and we never were supposed to be.

Did I expect us to with the SEC East? Absolutley!!!! Do I put all that on CBJ? Most of it but how can you put the laundry list of injuries we have sustained.

I'm not saying the concerns on whether he can take us to the level aren't warranted because they are. I just don't like all the negativity because we EXPECTED to win the SEC. On what basis? We haven't won the SEC since 1998.
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I contend that the laundry list of injuries would have been much more limited had we came out strong and put the lesser teams that we were supposed to demolish earlier. That gets the starters off the field. There is no excuse for having to have returning starters playing full throttle late in the game against Appy State and Ohio.
 
#187
#187
OrangeTsar said:
I have gotten over my angst and fury enough to say that I won't bail on CBJ yet. But I would fully expect that he learns something from this debacle and does things differently from here on out. Bottom lines: 1) if Hurd was an ongoing problem, it should have been dealt with decisively before it exploded 2) the turnovers, slow starts,and penalties show a shocking and inexcusable lack of preparation and discipline by the staff 3) the inflexibility in making adjustments in personal and schemes on the offensive side of the ball show a disturbing stubbornness on the part of the relevant staff and 4) the avalanche of injuries is so statistically improbable as to indicate serious deficiencies in the strength and conditioning program and to show a staggering lack of the development of player physicality.

All 4 of these fall squarely on CBJ and his staff for which he is ultimately responsible.

His "everything is fine" mantra at yesterday's press conference was a troubling omen for me that he either doesn't see the depth and seriousness of these issues or else that he thinks a mere tweaking of the current way things are done is all that is needed.

I would hope that we see some changes in he things that can be changed in the short term over the next four weeks. And I would hope to see wholesale reconstruction during the offseason. Time to pull down several courses of hose bricks and relay them on the quick.
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all of this, and the consistent game management issues he's displayed, are reasons why i don't think he's the guy that can get us there.

the change he needs to make most is one that i dont think he's capable of making. and that lies directly with him and his overall philosophy on how to manage the program. and i'm not talking making wholesale changes to how he does things or what he does. it's about being a good manager, understanding, expecting and using feedback, and surrounding yourself with the best...even if that means you get challenged by those under you. i doubt very seriously Deboard has "challenged" butch jones. he'd need to make appropriate changes for O line and OC and bring in people that can just run it. w/little to no input from him regarding the "who", "what" and "how".

can they be like minded in philosophy? absolutely, they should be. but they should not be micro managed, rather, expected to "own it".

i don't think CBJ is capable of doing that. i hate using Saban as an example because he so far to one side of the spectrum, but you look at who he's hired to make that program better, and is there any doubt that he hired the "anti saban" in Lane Kiffin?

but it did make them better. a lot better. for CBJ to do anything more than what he has done so far, he would have to think similarly in regards to who should be working for him.
 
#188
#188
If you told me we could get rid of Butch and keep the rest or get rid of the rest and keep Butch, I'd choose to boot Butch.

Even with Debord sleeping in the booth, Butch is the drunk driver behind this wheel.
 
#189
#189
Wylo said:
If you told me we could get rid of Butch and keep the rest or get rid of the rest and keep Butch, I'd choose to boot Butch.

Even with Debord sleeping in the booth, Butch is the drunk driver behind this wheel.
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This. A lot of players like Debord. I definitely feel that Debord could open the playbook, but Butch doesn't.
 
#192
#192
CountVolcula said:
Oh Dooley.

I remember when I was a posivol and tried to convince myself that he wasnt terrible. I can relate to them.

One day, they will come to grips with it
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So wait, you were wrong about Dooley but thought you were right. And, that somehow proves that you are right about Butch because you think you are?

Maybe you're just not very good at evaluating coaching?
 
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#193
#193
VolsRule said:
How many more years should Butch get?? He will demand a long-term contract extension if he wins 9 games.
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Let him demand all he wants. We know, he knows, and the Athletic Department of UT knows, that when he leaves UT, he'll never coach again in Division 1 football.

He's beholden to his contract as much as we are. If he ekes out 9-3 this year, and has the gall to threaten to break his contract and leave if he doesn't get an extension, then let him.
 
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#194
#194
Volz4lif3 said:
Unfortunately you did... these sheep believe we can only win 6-8 games a year and be satisfied.. why not win the east and be right there in the mix every year.. but some are jus satisfied by the music city bowl..
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I'm not saying settle for mediocrity. And I'm not saying CBJ is the answer to our hopes and dreams. I just don't think it's smart to fire him right now. I hate the bland offense just like the rest of us, I hate the squeaking by we have seen all season, and I hate the fact we have and/or had problems in the locker room. But I also hate thinking hitting the reset button AGAIN and rebuilding. That's all I'm trying to get across. And all that aside who we possibly get that is the answer? I'm not sure that person is out there right now.
 
#195
#195
golfballs said:
Butch has brought us out of the cellar. We still have the potential for a 10 win season after going
5-7
7-6
9-4
And people want to fire him already? An irrational fan base might be one of the reasons a top notch coach would hesitate to come here. At least not for an obscene amount of cash
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No. Irrational is living in denial that the quality of play matters since it will eventually determine wins and losses. After four years of "brick by brick".... UT struggled to beat ASU and were outplayed badly by them for most of the game. They were outplayed by VT minus their unforced turnovers. UGA an inferior roster.... outcoached and should have beaten UT. This team has played closer to the 3-5 record they could have had than the 5-3 record they do have.

No. Top notch coaches can discern incompetent coaching more than any of us. They see what Jones has built but also how he's squandering it. There are NO reasons an SEC caliber coach should be afraid to take over at UT after this year while there's still talent to work with. Who knows.... the right hire might even get Hurd to transfer back to UT.
 
#196
#196
JMSqb11 said:
Even if we finish 11-3, anything less than a 9-3 regular season next year should result in his firing. Since he is willing to live and die by his system, I fully expect us to wind up around 7 or 8 wins next year.
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The team that just played USCe.... won't beat UK.... stands a good chance of losing to Vandy... and could even lose to Mizzou.

The team UT fielded in Columbia is probably the worst team that's taken the field in the SEC this year. The game wouldn't have even looked close had it not been for Berry. UT had less than 300 yds of O vs USCe and was outgained by the least talented team in the SEC this year.... with a HS Sr playing QB.

The "great" strategist William "The Conqueror" Muschamp outcoached Jones in embarrassing fashion.

Incompetence doesn't begin to describe the job Jones did.
 
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#198
#198
daj2576 said:
So wait, you were wrong about Dooley but thought you were right. And, that somehow proves that you are right about Butch because you think you are?

Maybe you're just not very good at evaluating coaching?
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No, I was hoping like hell Dooley would work out, like you guys are doing Butch, and either ignored the signs or downplayed them

I have explained this numerous times before. I used the same excuses people are using for Butch.

I knew the UT AD was going to botch the hire again.

Believe me, I know exactly why people are wanting Butch to be the guy.
 
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#200
#200
daj2576 said:
So wait, you were wrong about Dooley but thought you were right. And, that somehow proves that you are right about Butch because you think you are?

Maybe you're just not very good at evaluating coaching?
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A lot of us after being burned by Dooley took our blinders off and started dealing with both the good and bad of a coach. While folks like you were fawning over Jones.... we said wait and see. When he managed games poorly and lost games he shouldn't... you excused him while we looked at those failures as part of an objective evaluation of him as a coach.

Now.... the people most mad are those who thought he was the answer and then woke up to realize that in all likelihood he probably isn't. Some of us.... didn't convince ourselves he was "great" because he simply had not proven himself to be "great". That made us the object of ridicule and anger many times.

There is still a possibility that he is all you ever dreamed of and the greatest coach ever. Maybe he wins out, catches help from LSU and Ark, then pulls off a miracle against Bama. But it appears more likely as we sit right now that Jones will lose one or two more games with a team that had enough talent to be a serious challenger for the SEC.
 
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