Gas tax problem?

#51
#51
VolBeef88 said:
Most definitely. Cane could be raised all over the South Eastern US and parts of Texas as well as California. The problem is the Sugar Lobby will never let it happen due to the large amount of money and control they currently have with import tariffs and HGUE subsidies etc... The Sugar industry is controlled by a very small group of people. For instance they are about the only product (not just commodity) excluded from the recent US Australian free trade agreement a few years ago and they remain out of free trade agreements.
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Interesting....I'm surprised that the yields would be high enough to justify the land-use. I would think that you would need wet and hot environments to really get the yields necessary to justify the land-use and support an entire fuel market.
 
#52
#52
TennTradition said:
Interesting....I'm surprised that the yields would be high enough to justify the land-use. I would think that you would need wet and hot environments to really get the yields necessary to justify the land-use and support an entire fuel market.
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The lower half of Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi and Arkansas as well as 2/3 of LA. The Southeasten Part of Texas From Houston south and East and a big chunk of Southern Cali. If they can grow rice they can definatley grow Cane. Also sugar beets could be used but again the Sugar lobby will never allow it to happen.
 
#53
#53
TennTradition said:
Interesting....I'm surprised that the yields would be high enough to justify the land-use. I would think that you would need wet and hot environments to really get the yields necessary to justify the land-use and support an entire fuel market.
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Think about this for a moment. What do they need from Corn to make ethanol (sugar)? Then which would yield more sugar per acre?
 
#54
#54
VolBeef88 said:
Think about this for a moment. What do they need from Corn to make ethanol (sugar)? Then which would yield more sugar per acre?
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We know that corn isn't justified from a land-use standpoint...and that it certainly can't support the fuel market...so the comparison to corn doesn't really answer the question of whether or not sugar cane grown in the US can support the fuel market...I wasn't arguing that it made less sense than corn.
 
#55
#55
TennTradition said:
We know that corn isn't justified from a land-use standpoint...and that it certainly can't support the fuel market...so the comparison to corn doesn't really answer the question of whether or not sugar cane grown in the US can support the fuel market...I wasn't arguing that it made less sense than corn.
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Is it? Who knows but the country that is held up on high as an example (Brazil) of ethanol uses cane. When you take all the states I listed (left out Florida, South Carolina and parts of North Carolina) the amount of cane that could be raised is huge. The question to me is not about land use but the use of ethanol as fuel period.
 
#56
#56
how about adopting a plan like the one the Prez called for after Katrina, put an end to the gazillion different regional blends. Find a happy medium for all areas and have refineries produce a single blend for the entire country.

When we make it more expensive for the oil companies to do business, we only hurt our own wallets.
 
#57
#57
MontereyVol said:
This is one decision Obama has made I agree with.
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droski said:
i really don't see what this accomplishes.
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Agree on both counts, as the money has already been ballpark figured into the budget, and will still need to come from somewhere. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, in my opinion.

droski said:
all these things are a clear sign of an oil bubble. i bet we see $80 a barrell oil by october.
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We can always hope, the runup in price has been far too swift to be attributed to an increase in demand. Hopefully the speculators take one on the chin like the people that bought 2 or 3 homes on adjustable mortgages trying to flip them over as fast as they could at a profit.
 
#58
#58
JTrainDavis said:
Agree on both counts, as the money has already been ballpark figured into the budget, and will still need to come from somewhere. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, in my opinion.


We can always hope, the runup in price has been far too swift to be attributed to an increase in demand. Hopefully the speculators take one on the chin like the people that bought 2 or 3 homes on adjustable mortgages trying to flip them over as fast as they could at a profit.
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some of them are going to get hammered when you have Oil heavies saying that the fundamentals don't at all justify oil pricing.
 
#59
#59
VolBeef88 said:
Is it? Who knows but the country that is held up on high as an example (Brazil) of ethanol uses cane. When you take all the states I listed (left out Florida, South Carolina and parts of North Carolina) the amount of cane that could be raised is huge. The question to me is not about land use but the use of ethanol as fuel period.
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I've read alot about sugarcane being used for fuel, though i've been at work for 45 hours straight, so i can't recall specifics, the ethanol produced for an acre of sugar to corn is something absurd like a 200:1 ratio. However, i also read something about a sweetheart deal the sugar producers in the USA have as far as set pricing per pound, or something to that extent
 
#60
#60
BigPapaVol said:
some of them are going to get hammered when you have Oil heavies saying that the fundamentals don't at all justify oil pricing.
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When oil made a run at 100 a few years back, the most expensive 87 octane got here was around $2.65 . When it was at about $108, which i think was within $10/bbl of the 2004/ or 2005 high, it was $3.35. Just now i filled up at $3.79 for the Pabst gas. The numbers don't really add up when taken proportionately.

That probably didn't make much sense, but if they suspend the Federal Tax, i wouldn't be surprised to see the prices creep upward again, lots of people are getting rich milking the cow for all its worth, why would they stop now?
 
#61
#61
JTrainDavis said:
When oil made a run at 100 a few years back, the most expensive 87 octane got here was around $2.65 . When it was at about $108, which i think was within $10/bbl of the 2004/ or 2005 high, it was $3.35. Just now i filled up at $3.79 for the Pabst gas. The numbers don't really add up when taken proportionately.

That probably didn't make much sense, but if they suspend the Federal Tax, i wouldn't be surprised to see the prices creep upward again, lots of people are getting rich milking the cow for all its worth, why would they stop now?
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refining margins are near all time lows (they were near all time highs 2 years ago). take a look at the stock prices of VLO and TSO (pure refiners). the price of gas hasn't raised anywhere near as much as the price of crude.
 
#62
#62
droski said:
refining margins are near all time lows (they were near all time highs 2 years ago). take a look at the stock prices of VLO and TSO (pure refiners). the price of gas hasn't raised anywhere near as much as the price of crude.
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Then to appease you Berkely Tree Climbers, rather than drill in ANWR, we'll nuke the Arabian Penninsula!!!! GO TEAM!!!!!

(just kidding, droski, i assume you'd get my sarcasm, but it would only be a matter of time before someone took me seriously.)
 
#63
#63
droski said:
we still have among the lowest gas taxes of any country in the world.
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According to AIRINC, a research firm that tracks the cost of living, out of 155 countries, the U.S. has the 45th cheapest gas price. The average price is $3.45 a gallon. England=$8.38, Norway=$8.73, Aruba=$12.03, Iceland=$8.28, Belgium=$8.22, Sierra Leone=$18.42. Some of the cheaper ones are; Venezuela=12 cents, Iran=40 cents, Saudi Arabia=45 cents, Libya=50 cents. Just to name a few. Basically if you want cheap gas, with a few exceptions,move to the Middle East. Personally I live in Venezuela for 6 years and I liked it.

Bottom line, we really have no excuse to complain.:banghead2: We have had cheaper prices than just about all the other developed nations.

This article is in CNNMoney.com today
 
#64
#64
overseasorange2 said:
According to AIRINC, a research firm that tracks the cost of living, out of 155 countries, the U.S. has the 45th cheapest gas price. The average price is $3.45 a gallon. England=$8.38, Norway=$8.73, Aruba=$12.03, Iceland=$8.28, Belgium=$8.22, Sierra Leone=$18.42. Some of the cheaper ones are; Venezuela=12 cents, Iran=40 cents, Saudi Arabia=45 cents, Libya=50 cents. Just to name a few. Basically if you want cheap gas, with a few exceptions,move to the Middle East. Personally I live in Venezuela for 6 years and I liked it.

Bottom line, we really have no excuse to complain.:banghead2: We have had cheaper prices than just about all the other developed nations.

This article is in CNNMoney.com today
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You do have a point sir, gas here could be higher compared to other places. Aruba is just crazy.
 
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