Gas Prices

#51
#51
KentheOrange said:
Sounds good in theory. The environmentalists are basically federal (speaking of power base) but you still have a few pesky states rights left and one of the has been exercised loudly - "Not in my backyard". Probably the only federal action that may have been taken to build new refineries was to have leased federal properties that had been military bases (already environmentally poisoned) to oil companies. That would have been a great risk to the oil companies since we have seen changes in political power affect commitments made by the feds. With permits, safety, etc. I understand it takes 3 - 5 years to get a refinery into production. That is a long time to have that much capital at risk.
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Not in my back yard....Republican governors of several states that could host these. TX and FL are two. So again, the party in the pocket of Big Oil has done nothing. States rights is a convenient excuse. That much capital at risk? So you are now saying that it is Big Oil who is holding up the process?
 
#52
#52
CSpindizzy said:
Not in my back yard....Republican governors of several states that could host these. TX and FL are two. So again, the party in the pocket of Big Oil has done nothing. States rights is a convenient excuse. That much capital at risk? So you are now saying that it is Big Oil who is holding up the process?
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As much as everyone likes to blame "big oil", they are not the only ones that build and operate refineries.

CorpWatch : US: No New Refineries in 29 Years
 
#53
#53
I would say it is a combination of special interests and apathy. Govt. officials move to the beat of what constituents demand. The public hasn't demanded a solution to gas issues until recently. Special interests have lobbied against building refineries and successfully convinced those in target areas to oppose them as well. Other special interests demand regional blends that further constrain refining capacity.
 
#54
#54
What special interests are campaigning against refineries and just how powerful are they in DC?
 
#55
#55
this issue has problems at both ends.

i work in the trucking industry. everything we do depends on fuel. and as prices of fuel rise, so do our rates. as our rates rise, so do our customers' transportation costs, so they raise their prices and it goes on and on until guess what......you as the end user are paying for increased fuel prices at both ends. (everything you purhcase at some point was transported some way somehow--train, truck or air) you pay a higher price for the fuel for your personal use, and you also incur the higher cost of everything you buy because it now cost more to transport everything.........and who offsets that cost?

we all do, at both ends. If fossill fuels are the only realistic solution to fuel needs and no alt. fuels are developed and employed in daily useage, the only way you can solve this problem is to use/spend less....not just what or how you drive, but with everything.......price will go up, at the pump, at the grocery, at the mall, etc...as long as people just keep buying. what company has incentive to do lower prices? they can't lower them any more than they do......fuel prices keep going up, cost of living goes up, wages go up.......it's all one big cycle.....where can companies cut the most? not fuel/transportation, in many cases, that's a "fixed" cost. what's not? labor. what have many manufaturers done? moved across borders for cheaper labor, so you, the end user can enjoy lower prices. the town you live in......how many mills, factories, manufacturing plants...whatever....have been closed in the last 5 years? does America "make" anything any more? or are we the world's largest distribution center?

you want lower cost goods.......i'd suggest spending less, across the board. Inventories have to go up for price to come down.......that will never change. they aren't going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts or because it's the right thing for the environment etc.......

all of this is interdependent on one another......it's a function of many parties failing......the oil companies, the gov't, the consumer........we are all part of the problem, and no one has a real solution.

what needs to happen is everyone just freakin' own up to the fact that we all have a respnonsibility to this issue, and it's both environmental and economical.
 
#56
#56
As the article KentheOrange posted suggests, the building of refineries has a large local component. Local interests can work against public opinion locally (the not in my backyard phenom). Federal politicians cannot dictate localities build refineries or ignore local public will. On the federal level, environmental protection policies directly impact the development of refineries. Refineries are private businesses. The govt. has only a limited role in their creation. At best, they can inact refinery unfriendly policies (EPA, OSHA, etc. at the federal level) or friendly policies (tax incentives).

The public as a whole hasn't demanded change. The public locally hasn't supported refinery development and the market hasn't encouraged aggressive pursuit of refinery development.
 
#57
#57
The government has a limited role in their creation? Have you not seen the regulations on behalf of refineries from the Federal government?
 
#58
#58
CSpindizzy said:
The government has a limited role in their creation? Have you not seen the regulations on behalf of refineries from the Federal government?
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I clearly stated that the government impacts the building of refineries via regulation. They either increase or decrease incentives to build.
 
#59
#59
And you clearly stated the government has a limited role. They essentially have the final say-so on them being built and thus the power is ultimately in their hands.
 
#60
#60
Semantics. The role is indirect. The govt. doesn't mandate refineries be built. Doesn't preclude them per se but rather sets the laws, regulations, conditions for them (which could include a ban I suppose). The govt. would be overreaching to fund the building of refineries. Their final say-so is via barriers or incentives. Sure the laws could be changed at the last minute but if a refinery builder abides by all the laws and regulations in place then the say-so is quite limited.
 
#61
#61
And it doesn't matter if the neighbors and the source of funding all want it. Without government approval, the refinery will not happen. The Legislative creates the laws. The Executive enforces the laws and enacts regulations. Both of those branches had the opportunity to create a favorable environment to take the government's role down a few notches. So much for that.
 
#62
#62
Except that the government represents the people. The people haven't demanded it -- quite the opposite, the local people have often opposed it. Blame us.
 
#67
#67
allvol123 said:
What is it now? You should stock up...
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right around $3.15, rising steadily though...Luckily i work about 3 miles from home, quick morning jaunt on a bike...Once school starts again in the fall it'll suck though, as my old lady teaches about 30 miles away...

REALLY sucks for work, as our warehouse is in the middle of the state, and we travel to all corners
 
#68
#68
High gas means higher cost of consumer goods to compensate for it. While some see no outcry from the people, you will see a change in voting patterns. Since one party likes to sink its teeth into Big Oil, they will bear most of the pain of the consumer. People paying for higher costs of staple goods are less likely to buy cars and various other more expensive items. So while there isn't mass demonstrations in the streets there is a 'revolt' at the cash register.
 
#70
#70
volinbham said:
You mean when the Dems have controlled Congress for almost 2 years and possibly the WH for 6 months?

Tell us of the beautiful world they will create...:)
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Unless my math is wrong next summer still makes W the President. Unless you're implying he'll switch.
 
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