Game Thread: #20/25 LADY VOLS VS. AIR FORCE

[Coach Jumper]

You used "gamesmanship" twice in your post. Is that the word you were really looking for ?

?

 

[Coach Jumper]

You used "gamesmanship" twice in your post. Is that the word you were really looking for ?

CHW did not play her part of the the game as a coach...work the refs,,,make calls happen,,,use timeouts to teach,,,Call timeouts just before the TV planned break just to F with them,,,things like that

The players did not play the game either,,,they got to a point and quit
I don't know,,,scratch my head,,,,It's hard

A coach has to have gamesmanship just like players do

gamesmanship; the art of winning games by using various ploys and tactics to gain a psychological advantage.
The exact word I was looking for

 

[krichunaka]

Yep, and I guarantee you they're running for every single turnover they have in games right now. Not a chance they were going to take the TO on a shot clock violation or a steal. Thats just one more set of stadiums lol

I wanted to stay away from this ...however: Kellie Harper is a Coach, not a tyrant. I cannot imagine a scenario in which Coach Kellie would literally "punish" a player/team for a shot clock violation under such circumstances. And, though she has the obligation to defend her player's actions (the last shot), this might have been a good time for a more diplomatic approach.
I doubt that any of the several veterans in the audience were devastated by those two points, but I don't see what good they served. I don't think any good comes from scoring - at that time - just as I don't think the opposing Coach accomplished anything for complaining.
And, no, the beaten team shouldn't have to display the white flag to prompt the winner to call off the dogs.
Personally (since my opinion is so important), I'd have preferred a shot clock violation to a basket.

 

[VolBall09]

I wanted to stay away from this ...however: Kellie Harper is a Coach, not a tyrant. I cannot imagine a scenario in which Coach Kellie would literally "punish" a player/team for a shot clock violation under such circumstances. And, though she has the obligation to defend her player's actions (the last shot), this might have been a good time for a more diplomatic approach.
I doubt that any of the several veterans in the audience were devastated by those two points, but I don't see what good they served. I don't think any good comes from scoring - at that time - just as I don't think the opposing Coach accomplished anything for complaining.
And, no, the beaten team shouldn't have to display the white flag to prompt the winner to call off the dogs.
Personally (since my opinion is so important), I'd have preferred a shot clock violation to a basket.

I respect your opinion, but we differ.

 

[volnationnj]

CHW did not play her part of the the game as a coach...work the refs,,,make calls happen,,,use timeouts to teach,,,Call timeouts just before the TV planned break just to F with them,,,things like that

The players did not play the game either,,,they got to a point and quit
I don't know,,,scratch my head,,,,It's hard

A coach has to have gamesmanship just like players do

gamesmanship; the art of winning games by using various ploys and tactics to gain a psychological advantage.
The exact word I was looking for

Your definition doesn't elaborate quite enough.
"Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win or gain a serious advantage in a game or sport. It has been described as Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end".
If you don't like that one, let's use the Merriam Webster definition:
Gamesmanship - the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules.
While it could argued whether "working the refs" constitutes gamesmanship or not, "using timeouts to teach" and "calling a timeout before the TV timeout.." clearly does not. They last two fall under the strategy category.
Let's use Pat and Geno as examples here. While Pat may have used "gamesmanship", I know of no instances of it. If you do, please enlighten me. While I think it's fairly clear that Geno used "gamesmanship" in his competition with the LV's.
I'm curious.
What "gamesmanship", if any, do the current players on the team employ that was not used when Holly was coaching ?

 

[Amb3096]

I've seen that done before when it's under a second difference and the winning team has a really big lead. There certainly was no need to shoot. She easily could have passed the ball around the perimeter before driving to the basket.

Seriously, who cares. Any coach who complains about nonsense like this is just a crybaby.

 

[PointGuard]

Muffet McGraw is famous for playing full bore when the game is out of reach to narrow the loss/her embarrassment. So there’s that side too. An 8 point loss seems better to her than an 11 point loss I suppose

 

[Coach Jumper]

Your definition doesn't elaborate quite enough.
"Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win or gain a serious advantage in a game or sport. It has been described as Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end".
If you don't like that one, let's use the Merriam Webster definition:
Gamesmanship - the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules.
While it could argued whether "working the refs" constitutes gamesmanship or not, "using timeouts to teach" and "calling a timeout before the TV timeout.." clearly does not. They last two fall under the strategy category.
Let's use Pat and Geno as examples here. While Pat may have used "gamesmanship", I know of no instances of it. If you do, please enlighten me. While I think it's fairly clear that Geno used "gamesmanship" in his competition with the LV's.
I'm curious.
What "gamesmanship", if any, do the current players on the team employ that was not used when Holly was coaching ?

I won't debate my use of words nj,,,,when I speak of gamesmanship it is the context and definition I posted.
Holly never grew in a coaching capacity, she made the same mistakes day one as day last.
To me she never grew in her profession, which is almost entirely defined by the GAME of basketball
There are may games within the game...thus gamesmanship.

If I misused the word, sorry, not sorry

 

[volnationnj]

I didn't ask for and I didn't expect an apology.
Quite frankly, I didn't even expect you to admit your misuse of the word gamesmanship.
Equating "calling timeout to teach" with gamesmanship is just a plain misuse of the word. I found it especially interesting that you chose not to answer the question at the bottom of my last post.
The best commanders know when to retreat in a losing battle so they can fight another day. Others insist on continuing a losing battle and going down with the ship. In which case, all is lost. To paraphrase Michael Ray Richardson " Your ship be sinking".

 

[VOLPAT]

Your definition doesn't elaborate quite enough.
"Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win or gain a serious advantage in a game or sport. It has been described as Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end".
If you don't like that one, let's use the Merriam Webster definition:
Gamesmanship - the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules.
While it could argued whether "working the refs" constitutes gamesmanship or not, "using timeouts to teach" and "calling a timeout before the TV timeout.." clearly does not. They last two fall under the strategy category.
Let's use Pat and Geno as examples here. While Pat may have used "gamesmanship", I know of no instances of it. If you do, please enlighten me. While I think it's fairly clear that Geno used "gamesmanship" in his competition with the LV's.
I'm curious.
What "gamesmanship", if any, do the current players on the team employ that was not used when Holly was coaching ?

Pat Summitt was the master of working the refs. Having the instinct to.call time at the right time is essential to coaching basketball. Coaches do use these as teaching moments, making in game corrections, as needed. CHW will always be considered a loyal Lady Vol but she was apparently not a good game day head coach. She lost the team and "I don't know " at press conferences lost support from fans. Gamesmanship is a word and appropriate in the context of the post. It was clear what the poster meant.

 

[volnationnj]

Pat Summitt was the master of working the refs. Having the instinct to.call time at the right time is essential to coaching basketball. Coaches do use these as teaching moments, making in game corrections, as needed. CHW will always be considered a loyal Lady Vol but she was apparently not a good game day head coach. She lost the team and "I don't know " at press conferences lost support from fans. Gamesmanship is a word and appropriate in the context of the post. It was clear what the poster meant.

I agree. I know what the poster meant. He just used a word improperly. I also agree that Pat worked the refs, same as every other coach. Though Pat may have been more successful at it than most. However, as mentioned in my previous post, working the refs is up for debate as to whether or not it qualifies as gamesmanship.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Your definition doesn't elaborate quite enough.
"Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win or gain a serious advantage in a game or sport. It has been described as Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end".
If you don't like that one, let's use the Merriam Webster definition:
Gamesmanship - the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules.
While it could argued whether "working the refs" constitutes gamesmanship or not, "using timeouts to teach" and "calling a timeout before the TV timeout.." clearly does not. They last two fall under the strategy category.
Let's use Pat and Geno as examples here. While Pat may have used "gamesmanship", I know of no instances of it. If you do, please enlighten me. While I think it's fairly clear that Geno used "gamesmanship" in his competition with the LV's.
I'm curious.
What "gamesmanship", if any, do the current players on the team employ that was not used when Holly was coaching ?

 

[Coach Jumper]

Your definition doesn't elaborate quite enough.
"Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win or gain a serious advantage in a game or sport. It has been described as Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end".
If you don't like that one, let's use the Merriam Webster definition:
Gamesmanship - the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules.
While it could argued whether "working the refs" constitutes gamesmanship or not, "using timeouts to teach" and "calling a timeout before the TV timeout.." clearly does not. They last two fall under the strategy category.
Let's use Pat and Geno as examples here. While Pat may have used "gamesmanship", I know of no instances of it. If you do, please enlighten me. While I think it's fairly clear that Geno used "gamesmanship" in his competition with the LV's.
I'm curious.
What "gamesmanship", if any, do the current players on the team employ that was not used when Holly was coaching ?

The way the way you Center and on the word ship seems to infer that adding ship to a word makes it a negative. What about Championship? What about sportsmanship? ... and by the way the answer to your last question... they will employ whatever gamesmanship Coach Kellie employees.!

 

[volnationnj]

The way the way you Center and on the word ship seems to infer that adding ship to a word makes it a negative. What about Championship? What about sportsmanship? ... and by the way the answer to your last question... they will employ whatever gamesmanship Coach Kellie employees.!

?
Where do I start ?
"Center on the word ship" and "adding it to a word makes it negative" ???
That could not have been a serious comment. Tell me I missed your use of sarcasm.
If you didn't want to answer my question, then just don't. Your response adds nothing.
Finally, it's speaker implies and listener infers (But I know what you meant).

 

[Coach Jumper]

?
Where do I start ?
"Center on the word ship" and "adding it to a word makes it negative" ???
That could not have been a serious comment. Tell me I missed your use of sarcasm.
If you didn't want to answer my question, then just don't. Your response adds nothing.
Finally, it's speaker implies and listener infers (But I know what you meant).

I guess I thought I was being clear. I'm not here to debate words. I'm here to shine a little information and experience as a coach regarding coaching and basketball. And nothing else. I don't mean this to be short with you but I do mean this to be clear with you. Can we move on to another subject please. I use gamesmanship as I use it, and you have your own version of how you use it. We disagree. I'm okay with that

 

[gule]

Git a room!

 

[Coach Jumper]

Git a room!

Seems like we've had one