Gallion vs. Fulmer

#2
#2
gallion may me a little over the top.but it did show how unethical fullmer is.it's not that he told on alabama.it's the sneaky way in which he did it. :shakehead:
love him or hate at least the ol ball coach in gainsville had the stones to tell dubose to his face in 2000.

Fulmer crossed the line this time
COMMENTARY by RAY MELICK
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD
Schools turn in schools to the conference and NCAA office all the time. In fact, Bill Curry says that when he was head coach at the University of Alabama, "we were turned in every day, it seemed like. I know it was at least once every couple of weeks."
So the fact that University of Tennessee football coach Phillip Fulmer supplied information to the NCAA regarding allegations against the University of Alabama is nothing that isn't done fairly routinely in NCAA circles. As a lawyer involved in one of the many legal fronts that have evolved from this mess Alabama finds itself in told me, "if it's a conspiracy, then it occurs in every investigation, because all investigation comes down to people relying on rumors and hearsay and then investigating those things to find out whatever they can find."

But schools are not supposed to investigate other schools. Head coaches are not supposed to spend their own time investigating other programs.

Fulmer apparently did, and that crossed a line into unacceptable behavior; a line established by former Southeastern Conference commissioner Roy Kramer, as well as one established by the American Football Coaches Association, of which Fulmer is the outgoing president.

According to documents obtained by former Alabama booster Logan Young's attorney, Jim Neal of Nashville, who then apparently made copies available to Montgomery attorney Tommy Gallion, who represents former Alabama coaches Ronnie Cottrell and Ivy Williams in a multi-faceted lawsuit against, among others, the NCAA, Fulmer spent eight hours interviewing Tom Culpepper, a self-proclaimed recruiting expert, about violations committed by Alabama, which he then reported to the NCAA.

Protocol is that a head coach with a suspicion of rules violation against another school is supposed to first notify that school — which Fulmer apparently did not do with Alabama in the summer of 2000 — then, if he is not satisfied with the response from that school, notify the conference office. There is no evidence that Fulmer notified anyone other than the NCAA of the results of own eight-hour interview of self-proclaimed recruiting expert Tom Culpepper.

However, there is evidence that the NCAA did know of potential rules violations by Alabama as early as the summer of 2000, and there is evidence that the NCAA kept that information to itself instead of letting the university know, violating the NCAA's own code of cooperation, which was part of Alabama's appeal to the NCAA for reduced sanctions.

In the end, however, it still comes back to the question of whether Alabama was guilty of certain NCAA violations or not. Clearly the university's own investigation into the matter admits that violations did occur, an admission that is backed up by the fact that two high school coaches in the Memphis area plead guilty in federal court, costing themselves their jobs and their good names. That a federal grand jury has indicted Young on similar charges, based on evidence uncovered by federal investigative agencies with far more power than that of the NCAA, only seems to back up the NCAA's findings in Memphis. And in the midst of all the supposed "bombs" that Gallion keeps lobbing, it must be remembered that neither Cottrell nor Williams were cited by the NCAA for any major violations, and there is no NCAA "show-cause" in the NCAA file on either coach that would keep another school from hiring them.

What Gallion, Cottrell and Williams continue to refuse to accept is the possibility that maybe, just maybe, nobody wants to hire Cottrell and Williams. Maybe other coaches know of the chaos that was former Alabama head coach Mike DuBose's staff, of the infighting that went on between Williams and other members of the staff, infighting that occurred in the hallways of the football building, in front of players and visitors alike; of the belief among other staff members that Cottrell answered only to Logan Young and not DuBose.

In short, maybe Williams and Cottrell ruined their own reputations as coaches, and it had nothing to do with either Phillip Fulmer, the University of Alabama, the SEC or the NCAA.

DuBose hasn't been able to get another job either, but he seems to accept some responsibility for that. At least, he hasn't sued anyone.

Still, that doesn't excuse Fulmer's behavior. It's doubly appalling when you realize that Fulmer is the out-going president of the American Football Coaches Association, an organization that was formed, in part, to promote ethical behavior. In fact, the AFCA's own code of conduct includes admonitions to "cultivate the confidence and respect of rival coaches, to look upon them as colleagues and friends and to treat them, and to talk to them, as such."

As a very young head coach at Georgia Tech, Curry once promised Tech supporters that he was aware of what other coaches at other more successful programs were doing, and that he would turn them in and, in his words, "bring them to their knees."

"I was on the Ethics Committee of the AFCA at the time," Curry said. "They took me off that committee until I had time to simmer down and learn my lesson. I never did anything that irresponsible again. I faced a negative reaction from my colleagues, and I deserved it. From that point on, I tried to let my colleagues know that if I came across a violation, first I'd let them know, then I'd report it to the conference and the NCAA.

"That's the unwritten code, and we talked about it at SEC meetings. I don't know what Phillip Fulmer did or didn't do, but I do know that you don't talk unless you have specifics, and even then you tell the other coach first."

That didn't happen with Fulmer. Whether or not it was part of some "vast conspiracy" remains to be seen.

But it was unethical behavior.
 
#3
#3
I still think you have a big he said she said going on in this whole situation. Who really knows what Fulmer did or who he told? Maybe Fulmer talked to Dubose about it. Do you really think Dubose would admit it if he did? The bottom line is that Bama was guilty and they know it. Everyone is tired of hearing abou this and I think it only hurts Alabama to keep having it brought up over and over. If I was a Bama fan I would just want to get past this and move on. Would it help their program any if they did find someone to blame it on? No.
 
#4
#4
all i'm saying is that fullmer never followed the guidlines of the afca.the the same association that he is the president of.just seems that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

 
#5
#5
I don't see the comparison between an alleged AFCA ethics violation and major recruiting violations. The bottom line is that when you get caught with your pants down, you don't get to complain about the way you were caught . . .unless you are a fringe Alabama fan or Bill Clinton.










 
#6
#6
pappacraigba, let me start out by saying Welcome to VolNation. We're glad to have you as a member. :welcome:

I wasn't really directing my comments at you but at the author of that article. My point is that if it can be proven that Fulmer did something wrong then so be it. However, it has not been proven and is just talk at this point. Even if it was handled improperly then what would happen? Probably a slap on the wrist for Fulmer and Bama fans get to feel a little better about themselves. I really don't understand what the Bama faithful think is going to happen. Do they think that they are somehow going to get us put on probation as well? I think that is about the only thing that would end all of this madness.

I used to think that Alabama fans had a lot of class and I am sure most still do but there is a select few who make a lot of noise that are giving Bama fans a bad rap. Let's hope this madness ends soon.
 
#7
#7
I did a little more research on this issue and the only real issue is that it is a common courtesy to notify the head coach of recruiting violations that another coach may be aware of. Several sources state that Dubose was notified. And as much as Bama wants to blame us for this let's not forget that there were several other SEC coaches involved in this as well.
 
#8
#8
you are correct about dubose being notified but not by fullmer.the thing about this whole fullmer issue is this.bama fans realize that there where infractions.the university tried to impose 15 scholarship reductions.that was not good enough.the thing that most fans have a problem with is fullmer was running around forming his own investigation.in sworn testamony from kenny smith sr.it stated that the ncaa wanted to know what his son knew of ncaa infractions.he told them that he was told at ut that he didn't have to go to class.said his son went to maybe 10%of his classes.his son had a tutor who did his work for him.johenningmier told him that they were not intersested in ut,what did he know of alabama?this the same kenny smith that the ncaa slammed alabama for.in the statement smith sr. also said that johenningmier aranged a meeting for him to talk with 2 fbi agents.he told him he had nothing to tell him.johenningmier then threatend him with irs problems.smith said that because he was a truck driver for windle smith and recieving disablity johennigmier would have the irs come down on him.now i know up in tennessee folks think this is just crazy talk.but these statements are coming from sworn testimony in federal court cases.not hearsay.now what most folks are having a problem with is this.not that tennessee told on alabama.but that fullmer was forming his own investigation when that was not his job.that was the job of doug dickey.then again he may have left dickey alone.on acount of him tryting to cover his trcks with tee martin.this sumarizes the feeling.those who liove in glass houses should not throw stones.what i do believe will come out of this is that the ncaa does not opperate with in it's own rules.
 
#9
#9
Do you have access to those court documents? I would really like to read them.

I know most Alabama fans think there is a big conspiracy going on and that everyone is out to get them, but they really should be worrying about their own problems. With that said I don't think it's the University that keeps bringing all of this up but the guilty trying to cover their own tracks.

If Dubose had already been notified did he immediatlely inform the NCAA of what was going on? If not what good would it have done Fulmer to notify him again. I really don't follow your whole story below but it appears you are bringing up the whole tutoring and class issue. That was fully investigated and nothing was found. Same goes for the Tee Martin issue. Both were fully investigated by the NCAA and yet no probation.

Is the issue wrong doing at Tennessee? You say that it's only about Fulmer doing his own investigating but then you go on to bring up the other. I am not Fulmer and don't know exactly what happened.

I really am not educated enough on this issue to argue either side. I do know that the truth will come out and if we are guilty of something then we will accept our punishment but that is yet to happen. As for Alabama trying to self impose scholarship reductions, I think it was too little too late. Things may have been different if Bama didn't have the history that they do and this was a first offense or something. I will be anxious to see what happens.

How many days is it til football season??
 
#10
#10
i don't have access to the doccument myself.but i'm sure they are or will available.the documents i am refering to are from the fedearl court case in memphis involving logan young.the other court case is the defamation of character suit in tuscaloosa.as a matter of fact the university of alabama is not involved in either case.two things have come to light in recent days.because the ncaa had secret witnesses in the alabama case the documents were ordered shut.the info was kept secret.well the federal courts in memphis ordered the ncaa documents.gallion who is representing ronnie cottrell and ivy williams in the tuscaloosa case was able to get a copy of the ncaa testamony.well one thing that came to light was the secret witnesses were tom cullpeper and phil fullmer.as well as the ncaa was holding information for alllegations of infractions from alabama.well this is in violation of the ncaa's own rules.they have to inform you with a preliminary letter.this was found out to be in '99.the ncaa did not contact alabama untill 00.now i don't blame ut for what has happened at alabama.nor do i think most fans feel like ut is why we are on probation.what most fans are having trouble with is the hypocracy the ncaa is being exposed for.the fact that they took info from fullmer and cullpeper on a quid pro quo basis.they turned there head to infractions at ut to take down a sacred cow.this has been shown from the statement given by kenny smith sr.do i think that anything is going to be given back to bama?hell no.do i think ut is gonna get into trouble for this i doubt it.i will tell you this i don't think there is a coach in the conference that will wanna be in the same room as phil.if anything he is gonna look bad after all is said and done with.and as you said time will tell.and as for ua better times are ahead.nothing more is gonna come from memphis.the ncaa sent a letter about 2 weeks ago saying they where finished with the case.kinda ironic in light of some of the testamony coming out.to make this long story short my sec chums.the ncaa is a joke!
 
#11
#11
I will say that I am not a big fan of the NCAA and how they handle things. So at least we agree on that!

I assume you are a Bama fan...how's your basketball team this year? Can't be as bad as we are. For some reason I really haven't heard much about the SEC West so far besides the fact that MSU seems to have a pretty good team.
 
#12
#12
we beat the tar outta awburn saturday.playin uga right now but i don't know what's up yet.no tv.10-4&2-1sec.

and to the thread above don't think i'm here to spew venom.i came here curious what ut folks thought about it.the only time i really hate ut is the 3rd saturday in october.well used to be the 3rd saturday.
 
#13
#13
Georgia is a tough team to figure. We beat them handily and then they beat UK in Lexington. Go figure. I will be anxious to see the outcome of that one. Let us know who wins.

I don't think you are here to spew venom. You stated your information and posted your thoughts. Educated discussion is what boards are all about. You are welcome to post here anytime. Unfortunately we haven't had too much response to the topic. It's not been very busy here since the bowl game.
 
#15
#15
Wow, that's low scoring. Looks like it will go down to the wire.
 
#16
#16
if you wanna hear some of the stuff i've been talking about here is the link.look at the archived section.click on the complete list.there is an interview w/bob gilbert a ut beat writer i believe.as well as tommy gallion w/the ncaa documents.paul finebaum show
 
#19
#19
congrats. Good win for you guys. Where was that game played?
 
#20
#20
on the road in the dawg house.we needed it.ole miss is leading lsu right now.if they can pull it off we are tied for 1st in the west.bama is over acheiving.
 
#21
#21
Those SEC road wins are hard to come by. Every conference road win is a big win IMO.
 
#22
#22
they have been very hard fo bama.we don't win much on the road at all.like you said they are hard to come by and very important.
 
#24
#24
It really is not that big of a deal. However, a lot of Vol fans are in a bad mood after losing Brohm and some other key recruits have committed elsewhere. Not to mention the Kentucky loss. Not a good week for the Big Orange faithful.

Do you follow Bama recruiting? It looks like Shula has done a pretty good job of getting some in state talent and has put together what looks like a nice class so far.
 
#25
#25
yeah shula is way over signing.but you have to in our situation.we only get to sign 19 and you have to worry about academics clearing.you know there are gonna be a few that don't clear.in state we are killing awburn.outside of the state we aren't doin as well.doin fair but not the nation recruit types.we need receivers bad.

but hey signing day '05 it's on!back to 25.it's gonna take a few years but i think we should weather it out.just hope the faithful stay patient.gonna be lean for a few more.
 

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