Fulmer's Choices

#102
#102
T-TownVol said:
Holly the person as herpes or Holly the coach having the effect of herpes on our program??
HUGE difference in context.......if it was a personal attack, it was WRONG, as are all attacks on CHW personally......you have to learn to separate the two.......
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When a job is a person's life, there's no real way to separate the two in any meaningful way.
 
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#104
#104
ocoandasoc said:
Here's how I look at Phil's range of options...

1) Fire Holly – And if he's going to do it he can do it now or right after the final Tourney game. Options would include “reassigning” Holly to another job withing the athletic department. Or making it look like it was her choice to retire or step aside. But no matter how they spin it, there'd be a new coach. Then he could draw up a list and start putting feelers out. A brand name program with solid talent in place, it's ludicrous to say that a proven coach with a lot of upside couldn't be found. (I'll leave the discussion on who the next coach should be to others.)

2) Do Nothing – This one is tricky. Holly's contract is up next March. Coaches recruiting the same kids as Tenn would certainly point out that Holly could be gone long before they set foot on campus. In today's WCBB environment it is unusual for a head coach to have their contract wind down in its final year. Plus, it's a good way to encourage the assistants to start looking for jobs and make Holly's performance even more erratic and/or desperate.

3) One-year Extension – Kicking the can down the road might not be too bad an option. You'd be in exactly the same place as you are now – but the buyout on Holly's contract wouldn't be any larger, so you've kept all your options open. On the minus side, this would hardly be a vote of confidence and everyone – especially Holly – would continue to be on edge.

4) Two or Three-year Extension – I can hear the groaning. But this would end all the hot seat talk, stabilize recruiting, keep the assistants happy, and maybe give Holly some confidence. On the negative side, if the recent trends continue the program could be on life support in three years.
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Bottom line is Holly has to go!
 
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#105
#105
Advol said:
Fired Football UT Coach now new AD through backstabbing and Trustee hooks and crooks is gonna DO what he ALWAYS DO..................NUTTIN

COACH HOLLY IS GONNA BE HERE......CAUSE Filmer does not care one dime bout them Lady Vols.

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I’m afraid you are right, unfortunately for the future of the program. You are probably correct in your view of our a. D. :good!:
 
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#106
#106
Spook1 said:
:pepper::pepper::pepper: The ONLY option is your #1. If the other optthe ions are used, then our LV basketball program will continue to get worse. Attendance under CHW has dropped from 13,000 to barely over 8,000...ONY 4,300 for our game in our arena!!!!!

As to recruiting, the success of the last two years belongs to Shorrona Reaves...that was the best hire that CHW made. She needs to be given a raise and signed to a 5-year contract.
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I don't think firing CHW is even reasonably in play... Due to the losses of other players the last few years (on her watch I know) go look at the roster that would be available to any other coach next year if CPF were to give this next class releases as is very common in todays world..... if they all decided to go elsewhere what is the chance that some of this years class would also decide to not go through that experience and sit out next year and transfer out.... Way more reasonable to let next year play out and if there is no indication she has righted the ship, hand the 8 underclassmen, 6 or 7 of which would be McDonalds AA to a new coach, not a couple and 8 or so open schollies some of which would have to be used on some reaches just to have enough to put on the court next year.... this scenario is way more possible than we would all like to think.... kids do hold their coaches in high esteem and all these ladies would have lots of other options...
 
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#107
#107
GUNTERSVOL said:
I don't think firing CHW is even reasonably in play... Due to the losses of other players the last few years (on her watch I know) go look at the roster that would be available to any other coach next year if CPF were to give this next class releases as is very common in todays world..... if they all decided to go elsewhere what is the chance that some of this years class would also decide to not go through that experience and sit out next year and transfer out.... Way more reasonable to let next year play out and if there is no indication she has righted the ship, hand the 8 underclassmen, 6 or 7 of which would be McDonalds AA to a new coach, not a couple and 8 or so open schollies some of which would have to be used on some reaches just to have enough to put on the court next year.... this scenario is way more possible than we would all like to think.... kids do hold their coaches in high esteem and all these ladies would have lots of other options...
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Please be afraid of losing players to release or transfer and just let a terrible coach continue to coach your team! I would rather lose a few players for one year and have a coach that can coach come in like Wes Moore who has won everywhere he has been! Yes thats a smart strategy, lets just hope that talent can win all games for us instead of talent and coaching because gasp someone might leave LOL. Mark This down and save this post for posterity. This is what is going to happen, we lose next year worse than this year because every recruit now is Holly's and young. So we lose as many if not more games next year with a bunch of fresh/soph, so we do this same song and dance next year and she brings in another class of supposed all stars that don't play like all stars because they aren't any better as sophmore and juniors than they were as high school players due to lack of coaching. So do we fire her and possibly lose 3 classes worth of studs that are under-developed or do we stick with her again and keep going with this song and dance until 6 years from now we still have no final fours or NC and UConn has set the bar so far away there is no way to ever catch them and the Pat Summit legacy of LV basketball is gone, which at that point you finally fire her and your next hire has a hard time recruiting because the Lady Vols haven't won a NC or been relevant since the recruits were 3-4? Yes that thinking is what left us with Tuba Gooding Jones and his 4-8 record and a terrible team left for the next coach! He was proving to be a terrible coach and everyone wanted to hang on until the whole dang thing collapsed and now UT football is only relevant to us fans!
 
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#108
#108
GUNTERSVOL said:
I don't think firing CHW is even reasonably in play... Due to the losses of other players the last few years (on her watch I know) go look at the roster that would be available to any other coach next year if CPF were to give this next class releases as is very common in todays world..... if they all decided to go elsewhere what is the chance that some of this years class would also decide to not go through that experience and sit out next year and transfer out.... Way more reasonable to let next year play out and if there is no indication she has righted the ship, hand the 8 underclassmen, 6 or 7 of which would be McDonalds AA to a new coach, not a couple and 8 or so open schollies some of which would have to be used on some reaches just to have enough to put on the court next year.... this scenario is way more possible than we would all like to think.... kids do hold their coaches in high esteem and all these ladies would have lots of other options...
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I don`t think any of the players in the class of 2018 would go anywhere if Tenn brings in the right coach. Right now as we all know this team is a train wreck with Holly at the wheels. Bring in a new coach like Carolyn Peck.
 
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#110
#110
T-TownVol said:
Then you TRULY do not understand business.....
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I understand business, but there's more than business to one's alma mater. And the University is nonprofit. Otherwise, why would it operate any athletic programs other than football?

Jeff Walz just boo-hooed to rave reviews at his press conference for saying that for his program it's not about winning and losing. Walz said it was about the players being role models.

I realize that is convenient fluff when you're headed to the final four. However, there should be some truth in it.
 
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#111
#111
djtee said:
I don`t think any of the players in the class of 2018 would go anywhere if Tenn brings in the right coach. Right now as we all know this team is a train wreck with Holly at the wheels. Bring in a new coach like Carolyn Peck.
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See, when you suggest Peck, no one that knows WBB will take you seriously. She's not even trying to coach at Vandy. She wants to be athletic director.
 
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#112
#112
1CHATTVOL said:
I understand business, but there's more than business to one's alma mater. And the University is nonprofit. Otherwise, why would it operate any athletic programs other than football?

Jeff Walz just boo-hooed to rave reviews at his press conference for saying that for his program it's not about winning and losing. Walz said it was about the players being role models.

I realize that is convenient fluff when you're headed to the final four. However, there should be some truth in it.
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I get where you are coming from....one "slight" difference....Walz is winning and not making excuses for underachieving......
 
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#113
#113
1CHATTVOL said:
Jeff Walz just boo-hooed to rave reviews at his press conference for saying that for his program it's not about winning and losing. Walz said it was about the players being role models.

I realize that is convenient fluff when you're headed to the final four. However, there should be some truth in it.
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I don't think it's just lip service. I'm sure all coaches want to turn out student athletes that are good people. So no, I doubt any of them would be happy if they were winning, but the players were terrible people. I think the priority is to win AND have players with good character.

However, it is strange to underachieve but start talking about what good people your players are. Honestly, that should be a given...
 
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#114
#114
T-TownVol said:
I get where you are coming from....one "slight" difference....Walz is winning and not making excuses for underachieving......
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They were not excuses no more than they were Walz's reasons for winning.

It's human nature to look through a loss darkly, but that doesn't make it right.
 
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#115
#115
Amb3096 said:
I don't think it's just lip service. I'm sure all coaches want to turn out student athletes that are good people. So no, I doubt any of them would be happy if they were winning, but the players were terrible people. I think the priority is to win AND have players with good character.

However, it is strange to underachieve but start talking about what good people your players are. Honestly, that should be a given...
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Except it isn't a given. And when reviewing a season and a team, off-the-court things are a necessary reminder that isn't all doom & gloom. Doesn't eliminate the desire to win, but I think it should lessen the disdain.
 
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#116
#116
1CHATTVOL said:
Except it isn't a given. And when reviewing a season and a team, off-the-court things are a necessary reminder that isn't all doom & gloom. Doesn't eliminate the desire to win, but I think it should lessen the disdain.
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When you define a season it pretty much is only wins and losses, good lord this is women's basketball, how many have been arrested or anything else like that? I mean this isn't the guys football team or even men's basketball. Women's basketball isn't a pillar of the university because they were choir members, they won plain and simple, do you think Pat's legacy would be what it is if she had 700 wins and no titles but hey at least she had girls that graduated blah blah blah! No her legacy to anybody outside of fans is her win she and losses and banners in the rafters! We fans might have also seen the good she did in the community and graduating her players etc, but that part of her legacy is very small compared to being the winningest women's coach of all time and that's what made her a hall of farmer!
 
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#117
#117
Bigorangefaninga said:
When you define a season it pretty much is only wins and losses, good lord this is women's basketball, how many have been arrested or anything else like that? I mean this isn't the guys football team or even men's basketball. Women's basketball isn't a pillar of the university because they were choir members, they won plain and simple, do you think Pat's legacy would be what it is if she had 700 wins and no titles but hey at least she had girls that graduated blah blah blah! No her legacy to anybody outside of fans is her win she and losses and banners in the rafters! We fans might have also seen the good she did in the community and graduating her players etc, but that part of her legacy is very small compared to being the winningest women's coach of all time and that's what made her a hall of farmer!
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Unfortunately, you are wasting your time....great reply though....
 
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#122
#122
With high-glycemic Fulmer "do nothing" is most likely. If he can summon the energy a one-year extension would be remotely possible. Forget the other two.
 
#125
#125
Bigorangefaninga said:
When you define a season it pretty much is only wins and losses, good lord this is women's basketball, how many have been arrested or anything else like that? I mean this isn't the guys football team or even men's basketball. Women's basketball isn't a pillar of the university because they were choir members, they won plain and simple, do you think Pat's legacy would be what it is if she had 700 wins and no titles but hey at least she had girls that graduated blah blah blah! No her legacy to anybody outside of fans is her win she and losses and banners in the rafters! We fans might have also seen the good she did in the community and graduating her players etc, but that part of her legacy is very small compared to being the winningest women's coach of all time and that's what made her a hall of farmer!
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Hall of "farmer" is pretty funny since Pat learned to play in a barn loft.
 
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