FULMERS ADMISSION

[Liper]

Now that Fulmer has essentially indicated that staff changes will come, there are a great many people who will have reassess their position for one reason or another. Here's the way I see it (just some observations, not necessarily strong opinions):

Fulmer's admission of a problem with the coaching staff...

#1 - is also an admission that he waited too long to make changes. If Sanders is the wrong guy now, he was the wrong guy then - because Fulmer has known him from the beginning. There has been ample evidence that our offense has not been productive enough throughout Sander's reign as OC. Fulmer is responsible for this offense.

#2 - is also an admission that our "bad luck" and "execution problems" are in fact coaching problems. If they weren't, he wouldn't have any reason to make staff changes. So, for everyone who has ever said it's not coaching, Fulmer disagrees with you.

#3 - is also an admission that Fulmer is stubborn and arrogant. He has said as recently as last week that it wasn't the coaches and that Sanders did a great job. OK, which is it? Now we have a coaching problem? Fulmer's unwillingness to actually see the problem has been our biggest source of aggravation as Vol fans.

#4 - is also an admission that Fulmer has trouble evaluating the process of winning. If we would have won last night, everything would have been hunky-dorry to him. But since we lost, now we fire coaches. Either way, however, the process was the same and the product was the same. He should be able to see a problem regardless of this or that break going againt his team. The process of winning of should be something purposeful and repeatable; outcomes follow, and he only looks at outcomes. Foster fumbling or not should make little difference is the offensive organization.

#5 - is also an admission that the media carrying Sanders & Co.'s water is wrong. They shouldn't be in the business of calling for people's jobs. But they can evaluate the performance. The only other way to see it is that it isn't the coaches, in which case Fulmer is then admitting that he is a spineless turncoat for blaming his assistants when he knows it isn't their fault.

#6 - is also an admission that we have routinely underachieved. One year cannot be used to fire coaches. Fulmer would not turn his back on his staff because of 7 games. Therefore, Fulmer is now indicating that he agrees we are an underachieiving team on offense whether he knows it or not.

#7 - is also an admission that all of those dreadful offensive performances going back many years were coaching problems, and not the "Jimmies and the Joes." If one does a Google search, they will find Fulmer blaming execution going back years and years. Even when we won ugly, he blamed execution. He blamed it on execution when we had Peyton Manning. Thus, we have finally heard from the man himself.

Some may add or subtract from this list. Others may disagree.-Liper

 

[wilburnVol]

Originally posted by Liper@Oct 31, 2005 11:36 AM

Fulmer's admission of a problem with the coaching staff...

#1 - is also an admission that he waited too long to make changes.  If Sanders is the wrong guy now, he was the wrong guy then - because Fulmer has known him from the beginning.  There has been ample evidence that our offense has not been productive enough throughout Sander's reign as OC.  Fulmer is responsible for this offense.

#2 - is also an admission that our "bad luck" and "execution problems" are in fact coaching problems.  If they weren't, he wouldn't have any reason to make staff changes.  So, for everyone who has ever said it's not coaching, Fulmer disagrees with you.

#3 - is also an admission that Fulmer is stubborn and arrogant.  He has said as recently as last week that it wasn't the coaches and that Sanders did a great job.  OK, which is it?  Now we have a coaching problem?  Fulmer's unwillingness to actually see the problem has been our biggest source of aggravation as Vol fans.

#4 - is also an admission that Fulmer has trouble evaluating the process of winning.  If we would have won last night, everything would have been hunky-dorry to him.  But since we lost, now we fire coaches.  Either way, however, the process was the same and the product was the same.  He should be able to see a problem regardless of this or that break going againt his team.  The process of winning of should be something purposeful and repeatable; outcomes follow, and he only looks at outcomes.  Foster fumbling or not should make little difference is the offensive organization.

#5 - is also an admission that the media carrying Sanders & Co.'s water is wrong.  They shouldn't be in the business of calling for people's jobs.  But they can evaluate the performance.  The only other way to see it is that it isn't the coaches, in which case Fulmer is then admitting that he is a spineless turncoat for blaming his assistants when he knows it isn't their fault.

#6 - is also an admission that we have routinely underachieved.  One year cannot be used to fire coaches.  Fulmer would not turn his back on his staff because of 7 games.  Therefore, Fulmer is now indicating that he agrees we are an underachieiving team on offense whether he knows it or not.

#7 - is also an admission that all of those dreadful offensive performances going back many years were coaching problems, and not the "Jimmies and the Joes."  If one does a Google search, they will find Fulmer blaming execution going back years and years.  Even when we won ugly, he blamed execution.  He blamed it on execution when we had Peyton Manning.  Thus, we have finally heard from the man himself.

Some may add or subtract from this list.  Others may disagree.-Liper

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You got all that right and add that Hamilton (reportedly) as far back as '03 suggested changes in his staff. Fulmer didn't break down and admit his problems until it jeopardized his career. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he was told what changes to make not asked to make changes.

The ultimate change is now going to have to be Phil for if we remember, one hard drinking, hardheaded Johnny Majors finally slung his own butt in much the same way.

One other thing. Phil's weight is a serious health hazard, don't know if he regularly smokes but he's a walking advertisement for diabetes, stroke and cardic/high blood pressure problems. I am sure that this is also in the minds of The Powers That Be.

The firing of HCs today is not the trauma of yore. There are too many $$$$ at stake.

 

[OrangeFrenzy]

Except for the fact that Fulmer has made NO ADMISSIONS. Has it escaped everyone that this is not a change Fulmer has asked for? Sanders decided to submit his resignation, and Fulmer had to talk him into actually staying til end of season.

 

[rwemyss]

I think it shows INTEGRITY on the part of Fulmer. He stays loyal to his men, and it has almost been to a fault. I appreciate that. This season has forced Fulmer into a no choice position, things had to change.

And not quite OrangeFrenzy, Jimmy Ray Stephens and Pat Washington have both been fired from many sources.

 

[sonofajohn]

Originally posted by Liper@Oct 31, 2005 11:36 AM
Now that Fulmer has essentially indicated that staff changes will come, there are a great many people who will have reassess their position for one reason or another.  Here's the way I see it (just some observations, not necessarily strong opinions):

Fulmer's admission of a problem with the coaching staff...

#1 - is also an admission that he waited too long to make changes.  If Sanders is the wrong guy now, he was the wrong guy then - because Fulmer has known him from the beginning.  There has been ample evidence that our offense has not been productive enough throughout Sander's reign as OC.  Fulmer is responsible for this offense.

#2 - is also an admission that our "bad luck" and "execution problems" are in fact coaching problems.  If they weren't, he wouldn't have any reason to make staff changes.  So, for everyone who has ever said it's not coaching, Fulmer disagrees with you.

#3 - is also an admission that Fulmer is stubborn and arrogant.  He has said as recently as last week that it wasn't the coaches and that Sanders did a great job.  OK, which is it?  Now we have a coaching problem?  Fulmer's unwillingness to actually see the problem has been our biggest source of aggravation as Vol fans.

#4 - is also an admission that Fulmer has trouble evaluating the process of winning.  If we would have won last night, everything would have been hunky-dorry to him.  But since we lost, now we fire coaches.  Either way, however, the process was the same and the product was the same.  He should be able to see a problem regardless of this or that break going againt his team.  The process of winning of should be something purposeful and repeatable; outcomes follow, and he only looks at outcomes.  Foster fumbling or not should make little difference is the offensive organization.

#5 - is also an admission that the media carrying Sanders & Co.'s water is wrong.  They shouldn't be in the business of calling for people's jobs.  But they can evaluate the performance.  The only other way to see it is that it isn't the coaches, in which case Fulmer is then admitting that he is a spineless turncoat for blaming his assistants when he knows it isn't their fault.

#6 - is also an admission that we have routinely underachieved.  One year cannot be used to fire coaches.  Fulmer would not turn his back on his staff because of 7 games.  Therefore, Fulmer is now indicating that he agrees we are an underachieiving team on offense whether he knows it or not.

#7 - is also an admission that all of those dreadful offensive performances going back many years were coaching problems, and not the "Jimmies and the Joes."  If one does a Google search, they will find Fulmer blaming execution going back years and years.  Even when we won ugly, he blamed execution.  He blamed it on execution when we had Peyton Manning.  Thus, we have finally heard from the man himself.

Some may add or subtract from this list.  Others may disagree.-Liper

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I will have to disagree with you. Fulmer is very loyal to his friends, but he is smart enough not to cut off his nose to spite his face. These moves are being made because if they aren't then its Phil that is removed at the end of the year. Also, Johnny Majors was removed after he took medical leave and Fulmer coached that team to I think 5 straight wins, including Bama, Majors returned and lost to SC. It was an easy comparison of their coaching ability (same players, same year, etc.)
Looking at the past 7 years, it is hard to say that the fault lies with the offense (even though this year is an awful offensive year.) Sander's offensives have consistently performed better against Florida, Georgia, and Bama than Cutcliffe's did (and at UT those are the big three games.) Sanders is a scape goat this year because the expectations were so high heading into the year and the execution has been so poor.
Regardless, you can't blame the offensive coordinator for 17 fumbles and 8 INTs in only 7 games.
I really hope that Vol fans out there aren't expecting that this was some kind of miracle solution and now we will be world beaters...they will be sadly disappointed. Maybe Crompton will turn out to be the next best thing...Ainge and Schaeffer unfortunately didn't live up to their billing. Also, maybe a new coaching turns Hannon into a man who goes up for balls over the middle and lays out for them in the endzone. I for one am not very optimistic that a new coordinator will fix these kinds of player problems.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by sonofajohn@Oct 31, 2005 3:24 PM
I will have to disagree with you.  Fulmer is very loyal to his friends, but he is smart enough not to cut off his nose to spite his face.  These moves are being made because if they aren't then its Phil that is removed at the end of the year.  Also, Johnny Majors was removed after he took medical leave and Fulmer coached that team to I think 5 straight wins, including Bama, Majors returned and lost to SC.  It was an easy comparison of their coaching ability (same players, same year, etc.)
Looking at the past 7 years, it is hard to say that the fault lies with the offense (even though this year is an awful offensive year.)  Sander's offensives have consistently performed better against Florida, Georgia, and Bama than Cutcliffe's did (and at UT those are the big three games.)  Sanders is a scape goat this year because the expectations were so high heading into the year and the execution has been so poor.
Regardless, you can't blame the offensive coordinator for 17 fumbles and 8 INTs in only 7 games.
I really hope that Vol fans out there aren't expecting that this was some kind of miracle solution and now we will be world beaters...they will be sadly disappointed.  Maybe Crompton will turn out to be the next best thing...Ainge and Schaeffer unfortunately didn't live up to their billing.  Also, maybe a new coaching turns Hannon into a man who goes up for balls over the middle and lays out for them in the endzone.  I for one am not very optimistic that a new coordinator will fix these kinds of player problems.

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Nice post and very true. Everyone hated coach Cut at one time too.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by OrangeFrenzy@Oct 31, 2005 3:11 PM
Except for the fact that Fulmer has made NO ADMISSIONS.  Has it escaped everyone that this is not a change Fulmer has asked for?  Sanders decided to submit his resignation, and Fulmer had to talk him into actually staying til end of season.

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He made them implicitly, without knowingly saying so. That was my point. It is either a coaching problem or it isn't. The forthcoming coaching changes are a de facto admittance of guilt. Case closed.

Loyalty at the expense of the program is not an admirable characteristic - it's self-serving. It's admirable if you believe those football jobs are there for the betterment of those coaches. However, I think we all know that our football program is not in existence so those guys have a place to work.

 

[hatvol96]

Tennessee did NOT beat Alabama in '92. Alabama went undefeated and won the National Championship.

 

[allvol]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Oct 31, 2005 3:32 PM
Tennessee did NOT beat Alabama in '92. Alabama went undefeated and won the National Championship.

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Fulmer coached the first 4 games of 1992 and the bowl game. Included were wins over Florida, Georgia and Boston College (Bowl game). Majors returned, beat LSU in a sloppy contest and then lost to SEC newcomers Arkansas and South Carolina with the Alabama loss wedged in-between. Its the last time the Vols lost to South Carolina and also the last time Tennessee lost 3 games in a row.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by sonofajohn@Oct 31, 2005 3:24 PM
Looking at the past 7 years, it is hard to say that the fault lies with the offense (even though this year is an awful offensive year.)  Sander's offensives have consistently performed better against Florida, Georgia, and Bama than Cutcliffe's did (and at UT those are the big three games.)

Regardless, you can't blame the offensive coordinator for 17 fumbles and 8 INTs in only 7 games.

I really hope that Vol fans out there aren't expecting that this was some kind of miracle solution and now we will be world beaters...they will be sadly disappointed.

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Actually, it's quite easy to blame the offense. Their statistics are atrocious over the last 7 years. And it is patently untrue that Sander's offenses have performed better against FL, GA, and AL. Nothing could be further from the truth.

We can blame coaches for bad execution - because that it was caused stuff like that. When Eric Ainge has no idea where to throw the ball, our WRs run wrong routes, our OL misses an assignment, etc, then that is a coaching problem.

I don't think we've determined what we expect yet. First things first, which is to try and fix what is going on. The status quo is unacceptable, as Fulmer said. Our offense looks like a lunatic out there just broken out of the loony bin.

But I do not blame all of that on Sanders, but the staff in general.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Liper@Oct 31, 2005 4:44 PM

But I do not blame all of that on Sanders, but the staff in general.

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That's it exactly and that blame includes Washington, Stevens, and yes Trooper Taylor.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by rwemyss@Oct 31, 2005 3:18 PM
I think it shows INTEGRITY on the part of Fulmer.  He stays loyal to his men, and it has almost been to a fault.  I appreciate that.  This season has forced Fulmer into a no choice position, things had to change.

And not quite OrangeFrenzy, Jimmy Ray Stephens and Pat Washington have both been fired from many sources.

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Again we agree. This was a tough fire because Fulmer eventually had to admit this was a bad hire, but it does not show weakness, but the strength in the character of the coaches.

I have a feeling, if we ever find out how this went down it will sound something like this. Fulmer probably went to RS and offered to go to the sacrificial altar with him, and RS finally gave up the ghost and resigned. They both waited until the change was inevitable.