Fulmerites please help?

[LosAngVol]

The negativity and animosity about this class from several people on this board really makes no sense to me. If you look at the following, why would we anticipate a top 10 class?

1. 5-7 record last year
2. Fan support in our most televised game last year was horrible
3. The new staff had 2 months to get kids who had strong relationships with other programs that were developed over the last 2 years.
4. The public legal troubles of the Vols were very public in the last few years of PF's term, its not that hard for an opposing coach to single out UT as a place where kids go to jail
5. Tennessee lacks the in-state talent/connections to guarantee kids stay in state...MSU...can't be blamed on Kiffin after 2 months
6. First year college head coach competing against Saban, Miles, Meyer, Reicht, Nutt, who have a body of work to show kids exactly what they can do and who they have developed in the SEC.
7. Yes, Boyd and DT could be great. Nobody here knows for sure. But it would seem that if I was a QB next year, and I got a call from the Vols, I would KNOW that they wanted me and had a plan for me. Short term, it hurts, but if we are trying to build something special, we have to look beyond a year.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the gamble with Kiffin is to get a young coach with potential, who can assemble a quality staff, coach up the roster, and keep kids out of trouble so that in the next few years we can develop into a powerhouse. What is wrong with this?

 

[mooreaj21]

Amen brother. Agree with everything you just said!

 

[1vol]

Well put!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OHvol40]

nm

 

[OHvol40]

YouTube - The Tennessee 300


Is this what you mean by Powerhouse?

(this reminded me that L. Little always will be my favorite Vol)

 

[govols35]

very nicely put my man

 

[ormondjon]

The negativity and animosity about this class from several people on this board really makes no sense to me. If you look at the following, why would we anticipate a top 10 class?

1. 5-7 record last year
2. Fan support in our most televised game last year was horrible
3. The new staff had 2 months to get kids who had strong relationships with other programs that were developed over the last 2 years.
4. The public legal troubles of the Vols were very public in the last few years of PF's term, its not that hard for an opposing coach to single out UT as a place where kids go to jail
5. Tennessee lacks the in-state talent/connections to guarantee kids stay in state...MSU...can't be blamed on Kiffin after 2 months
6. First year college head coach competing against Saban, Miles, Meyer, Reicht, Nutt, who have a body of work to show kids exactly what they can do and who they have developed in the SEC.
7. Yes, Boyd and DT could be great. Nobody here knows for sure. But it would seem that if I was a QB next year, and I got a call from the Vols, I would KNOW that they wanted me and had a plan for me. Short term, it hurts, but if we are trying to build something special, we have to look beyond a year.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the gamble with Kiffin is to get a young coach with potential, who can assemble a quality staff, coach up the roster, and keep kids out of trouble so that in the next few years we can develop into a powerhouse. What is wrong with this?

Although I have never said anything against his year's signing class, yet, I will attempt to respond to your "7 points of wisdom."
#1- Fulmer was the winningest active coach in Div. I... Period. Kiffin has yet to win a game, (not counting the 5 he had in 2 years in the NFL. To replace a guy with a 75% winning percentage, with a guy who has a 25% wnning percentage doesn't make sense to me.
#2- Only 2 college teams in the country can boast that they've never had twice as many loses as wins in a single season...Ohio State and us! An SEC Championship game appearance an average of every 3 years. A national championship in the last 10. 107,000 + fans...National TV exposure almost every week. World class facilities.
#3 - No argument there
#4- Good point, except UT isn't/wan't the only school to have public disciplinary issues. So did Fla. Georgia, LSU, Alabama, Ole Miss, etc. (I'm not sure about the service academies, but whenever you put 18-19 boys (not men) in a college town with typical distractions, bad things can happen.
#5- These are NFL coaches with same moderate previous college recruting experience. Personally, I thought that overall, they did a great job of holding on and keeping the majority of the class together.
#6- Welcome to the SEC...nobody said it was going to be easy. The defensive CO (Daddy) makes 4 times the salary that Chavis made last year for having the 4th best defense in the country...meanwhile, hundreds of Phd's, faculty, academic programs, and "real" college students worry about cuts to be made in the next fiscal year. The obsurdity of this is magnified by the fact that Fulmer is under contract and gettng paid for the next 6 years, and Kiffin's contract is for 3.

#7- The coach has the right and pick his team. Kiffin was fired from his job for not winning, not moving the team forward, and demostrating an arrorgance in defying authority, and reluctance to bend in situations that required it. His "system" relies on the QB, and he has said he doesn't need one in this class??? I just hope he's learned something about evaluating qb's since he risked his pro coaching future on Jamarcus Russell.

 

[OHvol40]

Ok ormondjon, here we go. Might as well be the first to poke holes in your points.

1. This is a "what have you done for me lately" business. Fulmer was progressively getting worse for a decade. That is long enough. Plus you can't compare an NFL record to a college record. If you use that logic, Saban and Carroll are just average.

2. Did nothing to disprove his point. Moving on.

3. OK.

4. Again, you can't dispute his point. Just because we aren't the only one with problems is no excuse.

5. I hope you don't think that our staff only has moderate experience recruiting. We have 2 former National Recruiters of the Year. Even opposing fans will tell you that our staff is probably one of the best know bunch of recruiters in the nation, period.

6. Again, a little off topic, don't really know what the salary has to do with it? (the program supports itself financially BTW). But I would rather pay a stud staff the money to coach rather than all of the money going to one man (Fulmer). It makes alot more sense.

7. WAY OFF. Kiffin was fired because he opposed the fact that he had no say in selecting the players he was coaching. I don't know if you follow the NFL, but you are not even close. Al Davis hated him because he would not let Al run all over him. Plus if he didn't see a worthy QB in this class, why get one that would just sit anyway? I don't know about you but I want our coaches to have very high standards for our football team.

PS It is well known that Kiffin did NOT want Jamarcus Russell. But it wasn't his call. One of the main reasons he was at odds with Al Davis.

 

[ranradVOL]

Ok ormondjon, here we go. Might as well be the first to poke holes in your points.

1. This is a "what have you done for me lately" business. Fulmer was progressively getting worse for a decade. That is long enough. Plus you can't compare an NFL record to a college record. If you use that logic, Saban and Carroll are just average.

2. Did nothing to disprove his point. Moving on.

3. OK.

4. Again, you can't dispute his point. Just because we aren't the only one with problems is no excuse.

5. I hope you don't think that our staff only has moderate experience recruiting. We have 2 former National Recruiters of the Year. Even opposing fans will tell you that our staff is probably one of the best know bunch of recruiters in the nation, period.

6. Again, a little off topic, don't really know what the salary has to do with it? (the program supports itself financially BTW). But I would rather pay a stud staff the money to coach rather than all of the money going to one man (Fulmer). It makes alot more sense.

7. WAY OFF. Kiffin was fired because he opposed the fact that he had no say in selecting the players he was coaching. I don't know if you follow the NFL, but you are not even close. Al Davis hated him because he would not let Al run all over him. Plus if he didn't see a worthy QB in this class, why get one that would just sit anyway? I don't know about you but I want our coaches to have very high standards for our football team.

PS It is well known that Kiffin did NOT want Jamarcus Russell. But it wasn't his call. One of the main reasons he was at odds with Al Davis.

LOL..ormondjon, you sir have just been owned.

 

[pantone151]

The arguement of Fulmer winning 75% of his games has gotten old. Someone needs to pin the thread that details the win/losses. I think it shows three groups; w/l vs rivals, top 25 teams, and teams we shouldve beaten handedly. That thread should be pinned with the title "look here before arguing his 75% winning percentage"...
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[RockyTopGolfer]

The arguement of Fulmer winning 75% of his games has gotten old. Someone needs to pin the thread that details the win/losses. I think it shows three groups; w/l vs rivals, top 25 teams, and teams we shouldve beaten handedly. That thread should be pinned with the title "look here before arguing his 75% winning percentage"...
Posted via VolNation Mobile

His winning percentage is what it is....he coached in the SEC....hands down the toughest conference in the country.

I am/was a Fulmer supporter....the argument of CPF this and CPF that is getting old. You either liked him or disliked him, at this point no one is going to have their opinion changed of CPF. My opinion and your opinion of CPF is totally irrelevant today.

Lane Kiffin is the head coach at Tennessee. All Vol fans need to get behind this guy and give him at least a couple of seasons to perform. If he does not show improvement, then he can be bashed as not being the right guy. Lets at least give him a chance.

Go Vols!!!

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

His winning percentage is what it is....he coached in the SEC....hands down the toughest conference in the country.

I am/was a Fulmer supporter....the argument of CPF this and CPF that is getting old. You either liked him or disliked him, at this point no one is going to have their opinion changed of CPF. My opinion and your opinion of CPF is totally irrelevant today.

Lane Kiffin is the head coach at Tennessee. All Vol fans need to get behind this guy and give him at least a couple of seasons to perform. If he does not show improvement, then he can be bashed as not being the right guy. Lets at least give him a chance.

Go Vols!!!

I'll go on record as one that disliked him, fwiw...

 

[SmokeyTop]

His "system" relies on the QB, and he has said he doesn't need one in this class??? I just hope he's learned something about evaluating qb's since he risked his pro coaching future on Jamarcus Russell.

He was opposed at drafting JR. It was Al Davis that wanted JR and that is from Al Davis' mouth. But I agree, his system does need a good throwing QB and obviously JR would not have been then man he wanted.

 

[tidwell]

They're just scared and worried to death someone is going to come in and do something their "Hall of Fame" guy couldn't do in the last 10 years, that's all.

 

[Vol423]

#7- The coach has the right and pick his team. Kiffin was fired from his job for not winning, not moving the team forward, and demostrating an arrorgance in defying authority, and reluctance to bend in situations that required it. His "system" relies on the QB, and he has said he doesn't need one in this class??? I just hope he's learned something about evaluating qb's since he risked his pro coaching future on Jamarcus Russell.

You might want to actually do your homework. Jamarcus Russell was forced onto Kiffin by Al Davis. Kiffin stated prior to the draft that he didn't like or want Jamarcus Russell, and Al Davis drafted him anyway because Al Davis liked him. That disagreement over drafting Jamarcus Russell was the first nail in Kiffin's coffin in Oakland.

 

[OptimusPrimerib]

#1- Fulmer was the winningest active coach in Div. I... Period.

Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden...

 

[sjt18]

The negativity and animosity about this class from several people on this board really makes no sense to me. If you look at the following, why would we anticipate a top 10 class?

1. 5-7 record last year

Auburn was 5-7 last year, has nowhere near UT's staff (or payroll), and finished ahead of the Vols. Bama was 6-7 the season prior to NS taking over. He got the #10 class.

If anything, this should have been a positive. It tells recruits the immediate PT potential isn't just words.

2. Fan support in our most televised game last year was horrible

True... but some people here denied that it hurt the program at all.

3. The new staff had 2 months to get kids who had strong relationships with other programs that were developed over the last 2 years.

Chizik had 1.5 months. Saban had a month.

4. The public legal troubles of the Vols were very public in the last few years of PF's term, its not that hard for an opposing coach to single out UT as a place where kids go to jail

Which shouldn't hurt CLK at all. There's a new sheriff in town. That's a selling positive, not a negative.

5. Tennessee lacks the in-state talent/connections to guarantee kids stay in state...MSU...can't be blamed on Kiffin after 2 months

True.

6. First year college head coach competing against Saban, Miles, Meyer, Reicht, Nutt, who have a body of work to show kids exactly what they can do and who they have developed in the SEC.

Uh... I thought the whole appeal of this staff was their experience in the NFL and developing guys at USC, Purdue, et al.?

7. Yes, Boyd and DT could be great. Nobody here knows for sure. But it would seem that if I was a QB next year, and I got a call from the Vols, I would KNOW that they wanted me and had a plan for me. Short term, it hurts, but if we are trying to build something special, we have to look beyond a year.

I don't think those were mistakes at all. In fact, that is one of the more positive things CLK did other than the timing DT... and we probably don't know the whole story there. Wouldn't surprise me if he got in trouble on his trip or something.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the gamble with Kiffin is to get a young coach with potential, who can assemble a quality staff, coach up the roster, and keep kids out of trouble so that in the next few years we can develop into a powerhouse. What is wrong with this?

Nothing at all but his window of opportunity is small. He can't afford a class that doesn't fill needs with quality players. He won't be given indefinite time by the people whose opinions matter most. The talent gap widened between UT and the teams CLK has to beat to keep his job in this recruiting class.

I don't have a problem with a single player they signed... they just didn't get enough of them and whiffed on the areas of greatest need.

 

[governmentmule]

His winning percentage is what it is....he coached in the SEC....hands down the toughest conference in the country.

I am/was a Fulmer supporter....the argument of CPF this and CPF that is getting old. You either liked him or disliked him, at this point no one is going to have their opinion changed of CPF. My opinion and your opinion of CPF is totally irrelevant today.

Lane Kiffin is the head coach at Tennessee. All Vol fans need to get behind this guy and give him at least a couple of seasons to perform. If he does not show improvement, then he can be bashed as not being the right guy. Lets at least give him a chance.

Go Vols!!!

thank goodness,a good post today

 

[Vol4life09]

#1- Fulmer was the winningest active coach in Div. I... Period. Kiffin has yet to win a game, (not counting the 5 he had in 2 years in the NFL. To replace a guy with a 75% winning percentage, with a guy who has a 25% wnning percentage doesn't make sense to me.

What would his percentage be if he kept having 5-7 , 4-8 seasons wouldn't take long and even "The Fulmerites" would have been calling for his head!

P.S. Did any of these Fulmerites cry this way after Majors?

 

[ormondjon]

Ok ormondjon, here we go. Might as well be the first to poke holes in your points.

1. This is a "what have you done for me lately" business. Fulmer was progressively getting worse for a decade. That is long enough. Plus you can't compare an NFL record to a college record. If you use that logic, Saban and Carroll are just average.

2. Did nothing to disprove his point. Moving on.

3. OK.

4. Again, you can't dispute his point. Just because we aren't the only one with problems is no excuse.

5. I hope you don't think that our staff only has moderate experience recruiting. We have 2 former National Recruiters of the Year. Even opposing fans will tell you that our staff is probably one of the best know bunch of recruiters in the nation, period.

6. Again, a little off topic, don't really know what the salary has to do with it? (the program supports itself financially BTW). But I would rather pay a stud staff the money to coach rather than all of the money going to one man (Fulmer). It makes alot more sense.

7. WAY OFF. Kiffin was fired because he opposed the fact that he had no say in selecting the players he was coaching. I don't know if you follow the NFL, but you are not even close. Al Davis hated him because he would not let Al run all over him. Plus if he didn't see a worthy QB in this class, why get one that would just sit anyway? I don't know about you but I want our coaches to have very high standards for our football team.

PS It is well known that Kiffin did NOT want Jamarcus Russell. But it wasn't his call. One of the main reasons he was at odds with Al Davis.

#1- Thank you. I am so relieved fo hear that CLK is as good as Saban and Carrol (don't forget Steve Spurrier when using the pro records are not relative argument) but all three of these coaches were hired in the NFL AFTER wining national chamionships at the collegiate level. CLK has yet to win a single game.

#2- The original point was stated that we should not expect "The Recruiting Dream Team" to well this year due to a "lack of fan support" at an important televised game. My counterpoint of what UT has so much to offer in terms of *107,000+ fans at each home game, *the frequent national TV exposure, *the world class facilities, *the national championship, *the SEC Championship Games etc; could be used to demonstrate UT's worthniness as one of (if not, the best) college football programs in the country.

#3-OK

#4- Once again, I used the "everybody's got kids in trouble" argument trying to eliminate the OP's need to blame Fulmer for every time a teenager stepped out of line. If the Kiffin Klan can manage to keep their players n line !00% of the time, they'll accomplish something that virtually no coaching staff in the history of college football has.

#5- 2 National Recruiters of the Year? Wow, that and a five dollar bill will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. As you said, it's a "what have you done for ME lately?" type of business. If recruting is this staff's strong suit, what's the need in attacking the previous staff beyond ecognition over and over, and offer a grocery list of "why they can't be sucessful this year?"

#6- The stud staff that has been assembled MUST step up and prove themselves and be accountable for their own actions. Stop blaming Fulmer or giving this new staff excuse after excuse for underachievement. It's time to put up, or shut up, talk is cheap. The new head coach promised to beat Fla. this year, and to restore Tenn back to the national spotlight within 3.

#7- You don't think it's odd that there are no qb's worthy of consideration in this entire class? Saban, Spurrier, Miles, Myers, Richt, disagreed and chose 3, in some cases 4 each. Fulmer was less than happy with the qb play last year. He went out an got a highly coveted prize. Kiffin said he doesn't fit. If Boyd flops, and one of last year's qb's becomes an overnight sensation, I will be the first to give Kiffin his props. Until then, I remain unimpressed.

PS...Personnel decisions aside, he (CLK) was officially fired (and unpaid, a new precedent for even Al Davis) for insubordination; (which equates to your defintion, "of not letting Al Davis run all over him" but with a heeping dose of, "I don't want to," and, "I know twice as much as anybody" mixed in. While Davis has lost some good coaches in his day to other teams, (Shanihan, and Gruden) he still considers the hiring of Lane Kiffin as his biggest regret to date. Let's hope that Mike Hamilton feels differently in 3 years.

 

[sjt18]

Fulmer is gone.

Fulmer deserves to be gone because he didn't keep up with the competition and did not change behaviors that cost the program victories.

Neither of those facts proves or disproves that CLK will be a good coach or did a good job with this particular recruiting class.

 

[hatvol96]

What would his percentage be if he kept having 5-7 , 4-8 seasons wouldn't take long and even "The Fulmerites" would have been calling for his head!

P.S. Did any of these Fulmerites cry this way after Majors?

Bob Stoops reached 10 years of service this year. Thus, Fulmer was no longer first in the category his sycophants loved to tout. Probably best he got fired. It would have been sad to see the Skoal Patrol and the orange overall crowd try to come up with a new stat to prop the oaf up.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[hatvol96]

#1- Thank you. I am so relieved fo hear that CLK is as good as Saban and Carrol (don't forget Steve Spurrier when using the pro records are not relative argument) but all three of these coaches were hired in the NFL AFTER wining national chamionships at the collegiate level. CLK has yet to win a single game.

#2- The original point was stated that we should not expect "The Recruiting Dream Team" to well this year due to a "lack of fan support" at an important televised game. My counterpoint of what UT has so much to offer in terms of *107,000+ fans at each home game, *the frequent national TV exposure, *the world class facilities, *the national championship, *the SEC Championship Games etc; could be used to demonstrate UT's worthniness as one of (if not, the best) college football programs in the country.

#3-OK

#4- Once again, I used the "everybody's got kids in trouble" argument trying to eliminate the OP's need to blame Fulmer for every time a teenager stepped out of line. If the Kiffin Klan can manage to keep their players n line !00% of the time, they'll accomplish something that virtually no coaching staff in the history of college football has.

#5- 2 National Recruiters of the Year? Wow, that and a five dollar bill will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. As you said, it's a "what have you done for ME lately?" type of business. If recruting is this staff's strong suit, what's the need in attacking the previous staff beyond ecognition over and over, and offer a grocery list of "why they can't be sucessful this year?"

#6- The stud staff that has been assembled MUST step up and prove themselves and be accountable for their own actions. Stop blaming Fulmer or giving this new staff excuse after excuse for underachievement. It's time to put up, or shut up, talk is cheap. The new head coach promised to beat Fla. this year, and to restore Tenn back to the national spotlight within 3.

#7- You don't think it's odd that there are no qb's worthy of consideration in this entire class? Saban, Spurrier, Miles, Myers, Richt, disagreed and chose 3, in some cases 4 each. Fulmer was less than happy with the qb play last year. He went out an got a highly coveted prize. Kiffin said he doesn't fit. If Boyd flops, and one of last year's qb's becomes an overnight sensation, I will be the first to give Kiffin his props. Until then, I remain unimpressed.

PS...Personnel decisions aside, he (CLK) was officially fired (and unpaid, a new precedent for even Al Davis) for insubordination; (which equates to your defintion, "of not letting Al Davis run all over him" but with a heeping dose of, "I don't want to," and, "I know twice as much as anybody" mixed in. While Davis has lost some good coaches in his day to other teams, (Shanihan, and Gruden) he still considers the hiring of Lane Kiffin as his biggest regret to date. Let's hope that Mike Hamilton feels differently in 3 years.

Al Davis still hasn't paid Mike Shanahan. Are you this uninformed or are you the type of Fulmerite who has your head so deeply embedded in that buffoon's arse that you've resorted to flat out lying?
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[JZVOL]

#1- Thank you. I am so relieved fo hear that CLK is as good as Saban and Carrol (don't forget Steve Spurrier when using the pro records are not relative argument) but all three of these coaches were hired in the NFL AFTER wining national chamionships at the collegiate level. CLK has yet to win a single game.

#2- The original point was stated that we should not expect "The Recruiting Dream Team" to well this year due to a "lack of fan support" at an important televised game. My counterpoint of what UT has so much to offer in terms of *107,000+ fans at each home game, *the frequent national TV exposure, *the world class facilities, *the national championship, *the SEC Championship Games etc; could be used to demonstrate UT's worthniness as one of (if not, the best) college football programs in the country.

#3-OK

#4- Once again, I used the "everybody's got kids in trouble" argument trying to eliminate the OP's need to blame Fulmer for every time a teenager stepped out of line. If the Kiffin Klan can manage to keep their players n line !00% of the time, they'll accomplish something that virtually no coaching staff in the history of college football has.

#5- 2 National Recruiters of the Year? Wow, that and a five dollar bill will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. As you said, it's a "what have you done for ME lately?" type of business. If recruting is this staff's strong suit, what's the need in attacking the previous staff beyond ecognition over and over, and offer a grocery list of "why they can't be sucessful this year?"

#6- The stud staff that has been assembled MUST step up and prove themselves and be accountable for their own actions. Stop blaming Fulmer or giving this new staff excuse after excuse for underachievement. It's time to put up, or shut up, talk is cheap. The new head coach promised to beat Fla. this year, and to restore Tenn back to the national spotlight within 3.

#7- You don't think it's odd that there are no qb's worthy of consideration in this entire class? Saban, Spurrier, Miles, Myers, Richt, disagreed and chose 3, in some cases 4 each. Fulmer was less than happy with the qb play last year. He went out an got a highly coveted prize. Kiffin said he doesn't fit. If Boyd flops, and one of last year's qb's becomes an overnight sensation, I will be the first to give Kiffin his props. Until then, I remain unimpressed.

A five star recruit and stealing two four star guys from Florida with a staff that's been together less than three weeks??

 

[ormondjon]

What would his percentage be if he kept having 5-7 , 4-8 seasons wouldn't take long and even "The Fulmerites" would have been calling for his head!

P.S. Did any of these Fulmerites cry this way after Majors?

Ask Paterno and Bowden or any great football coach if they think 2 losing seasons out of 15 with a National Championshp and a visit to the Conference Championship game every 3 years is grounds for termination.

Yes, had the law of averages been upset to the point that his (Fulmer's) career winning percentage had been diminished from winning 3 out of 4, to losing 3 out of 4, (the equivent of a CLK pro coaching comparison) Fulmer would have terminated about the same time as Kiffin (4 games into the second year).

Majors' bigges foe was not Phil Fulmer as much as it was
Jack Daniels. (Just my opinion)