Fulmer not that good????

#1
J

jimmyvol

Jacksonville Vol Fan
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
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#1
I know this will be controversial to many but hear me out. Is it possible that most of Fulmer's success was due to A) superior talent B) David Cutcliff C) his own coaching ability D) A & B but not C E) A, B, & C

I have been watching the VOLS for 35+ years and it occurs to me that even when we had very successful seasons, we were mostly winning by the skin of our teeth. Sure, every now and then we'd throw in a big victory and every now and then we would shock the world (See UT vs Miami in Miami) but for the most part we squeaked by a number of inferior teams.

I strongly believe that we have been outcoached for years now. I also strongly believe that regardless of wins and losses this year, we will almost never be outcoached. There have been too many times that our coaching staff just couldn't adjust. A good example is UCLA last year and not covering the short pass in the 2nd half. Also Fulmer's first bowl game where in the 2nd half, Joe Pa ran the vols into the ground and Fulmer had no answer.


Thoughts????????????????
 
#2
#2
Jimmy I respect your thoughts and opinions but this thread may get bashed. This is kind of a dead horse subject.

But I can see where you are coming from and you have a lot of good points.
 
#4
#4
I think this theory that Fulmer is not that good has been circulating on this board since the 2002 season. :p
 
#5
#5
ehh, i agree with you, but theres no need to word about good ole phil now. If coach kiffin follows through then we will all be like phil who?
 
#6
#6
I think you are wrong. Because we did not have superior talent from the hot beds of California, Texas, and Florida. We did it on coaching and Tennessee pride!
 
#7
#7
I'm kind of getting tired of hearing about this subject. I think it's time everyone moves on. Not a single soul on this board thought Fulmer was a bad coach in January of '99 but all of a sudden he was horrible and only got lucky and won by the skin of his teeth and through the help of others and so on and so forth.

It's kinda like someone's ex-wife. You hate her now and she's a terrible hag but must have not been too bad when you were layed up making babies. And if she is that bad, and always was, then what does it say about you and your judgement since you were the one that married her?

Basically it was a good run and good runs don't last forever. But they do happen again, sometimes just with a different wife! GO VOLS!
 
#8
#8
TennesseeT said:
I'm kind of getting tired of hearing about this subject. I think it's time everyone moves on. Not a single soul on this board thought Fulmer was a bad coach in January of '99 but all of a sudden he was horrible and only got lucky and won by the skin of his teeth and through the help of others and so on and so forth.

It's kinda like someone's ex-wife. You hate her now and she's a terrible hag but must have not been too bad when you were layed up making babies. And if she is that bad, and always was, then what does it say about you and your judgement since you were the one that married her?

Basically it was a good run and good runs don't last forever. But they do happen again, sometimes just with a different wife! GO VOLS!
Click to expand...
You speak with great wisdom oh orange one!
 
#9
#9
COMPLACENCY: 1 : self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies

That is what killed Fulmer's UT coaching career.

There was a time when Phil was hungry, and full of fire. There was no soft golf clap. I've seen him snatch players by the face mask and chew their ass out hard. I remember a particularly classless endzone celebration at Neyland. I thought Fulmer was going to break the kid's neck. He grabbed the facemask, and all but crawled in the helmet with the player (he actually had to explain his actions after cries of outrage by the mealy-mouth PC crowd).

Before 2000: Players who pulled a bonehead move would LITERALLY try to sneak off the field away from Fulmer's wrath. It rarely worked. He would hunt them down. There was no laughing on the sidelines after you screwed up. Player may or may not return to the game.

Post 2000: Players who pulled a bonehead move would LITERALLY trot off smiling and laughing. Phil would do the infamous 'golf clap'. Offending player would sit on the bench and yuk it up with teammates until the next series, then return to the field and screw up again.

Early in his career, Phil was always able to out-recruit everyone else. UT's facilities were head and shoulders above the rest of the SEC. Recruits were dazzled by our facilities. Phil worked tirelessly at recruiting. He gave the extra effort.

Other SEC schools got wise. They upgraded their athletic facilities. They also hired top-notch recruiters. They leveled the playing field (Alabama even gave their recruits a pay raise). Fulmer never noticed until it was too late. He was riding the wave of the 1998 NC. The extra effort was no longer put forth.

Phil lost the hunger, and got lazy. That's why he is no longer the head coach at UT.
 
#10
#10
BradyvilleVol said:
I think you are wrong. Because we did not have superior talent from the hot beds of California, Texas, and Florida. We did it on coaching and Tennessee pride!
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Your saying the teams from the 90’s had inferior talent because they were not from Texas, California, or Florida. That is crazy. Tell that to Peyton Manning, Al Wilson, etc.

List some of the teams that had greater talent back then.

Also, name 1 game that CPF outcoached anyone.

PS: Does this mean that you think Bryce isn't that talented because he is from Kansas?

.
 
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#11
#11
TennesseeT said:
I'm kind of getting tired of hearing about this subject. I think it's time everyone moves on. Not a single soul on this board thought Fulmer was a bad coach in January of '99 but all of a sudden he was horrible and only got lucky and won by the skin of his teeth and through the help of others and so on and so forth.......
Click to expand...

Wrong.
 
#12
#12
Really simple. Fulmer got comefortable and getting comefortable in any industry will kill you. I've seen it many times in business and in coaches as well.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#14
#14
Got news for you bud, Coach Fulmer's first bowl game was against Boston College and the Vols beat the daylights out of them.
 
#15
#15
jimmyvol said:
I know this will be controversial to many but hear me out. Is it possible that most of Fulmer's success was due to A) superior talent B) David Cutcliff C) his own coaching ability D) A & B but not C E) A, B, & C
Click to expand...

:clap: Congratulations Jimmy, I think you finally figured it out. :)
 
#16
#16
VolDad said:
Your saying the teams from the 90’s had inferior talent because they were not from Texas, California, or Florida. That is crazy. Tell that to Peyton Manning, Al Wilson, etc.

List some of the teams that had greater talent back then.

Also, name 1 game that CPF outcoached anyone.
Click to expand...

:good!: Also, think back to how many games we were up at the half only to be outcoached in the second half by better coaches.
 
#17
#17
Fulmer was a great coach. His record says it all. I kind os agree with Kirk Herbstreet that the downfall really began with the whole Kelly Washington era. We had NFL talent all over our team. Former players with money coming around the program and the current players were playing for the NFL and not for the team. Phil could have combatted this in my opinion by allowing freshman and sophomores more opportunities to take jobs from the upperclassmen. We all know the last six or seven years were not excellent but he had a 10 year run that was one of the best in history.
 
#18
#18
BradyvilleVol said:
I think you are wrong. Because we did not have superior talent from the hot beds of California, Texas, and Florida. We did it on coaching and Tennessee pride!
Click to expand...

Your signature "High on Orange Hill": I am beginning to believe that in a literal sense.
 
#19
#19
I am a newb to VolNation, but were UT fans wanting Cutcliffe to come back to be the head coach or was there some sort of animosity for him leaving? I wouldve thought there would be a huge cry for him to take over the reigns after Phil, or was it that UT fans felt he was more of the same ...just an extension of Phil?
 
#20
#20
I would add Peyton to part B... the talent level after '01 (4 years after Peyton left) drops off markedly.. he definitely had something to do with talent coming here from the mid-90's until he left. Without Peyton, does Fulmer win a NC in '98?


I am a newb to VolNation, but were UT fans wanting Cutcliffe to come back to be the head coach or was there some sort of animosity for him leaving? I wouldve thought there would be a huge cry for him to take over the reigns after Phil, or was it that UT fans felt he was more of the same ...just an extension of Phil?
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no.. few people wanted to continue the Filmer regime..
 
#21
#21
jimmyvol said:
I know this will be controversial to many but hear me out. Is it possible that most of Fulmer's success was due to A) superior talent B) Rodney Garner C) his own coaching ability D) A & B but not C E) A, B, & C
Click to expand...

fyp
 
#23
#23
I don't blame PF for this because you can only fight the battle that you are in, but one fact that seems to be overlooked quite a bit is the competition he was coaching against. If you go back and look at when Phil was racking up the wins, he wasn't doing it against the level of coaches the league has in it today. Spurrier being the noteable exception.
 
#24
#24
I don't remember the exact numbers, but I saw awhile back Fulmer's record when Cutcliffe was there and the record when he was not, and it was much better with Cutcliffe.
 
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