Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#5,951
#5,951
milohimself said:
With Hart at the helm, a hopefully healthy athletics department, booster support and Phil's buyout coming to an end by the earliest time Dooley could likely be fired (assuming he doesn't turn the corner), I have a feeling we'll be getting a very good coach in a few years.
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1. This is really Dejavu......reminds me of when Curry was at Alabama and got pushed out before he got a chance to really reap his efforts.....so what we have another 15 years or so?

2.) I have to admit I feel weird about Hart...the idea of an Alabama grad being the "hope" for UT's future fills me with dred. I still worry there's a Trojan Horse.. Or Tuskaloosan Elephant within our gates....given he probably got the job due in some part to Dooley's Saban connection.....I'm not sure you'll see any huge coaching changes anytime soon..and that's one thing I am hoping..as Dooley needs time....still...An Alabama AD with an ex Alabama staff around him...the HOPE for UT's future. If that doesn't give you pause.....

3.) You should get this philosophy and memo about not keeping a great tradition down to Notre Dame by the way, and get their input.

if it sounds like I am disagreeing with you..I'm really not..I think you may be right...it's just all very weird to me......like looking for the French to relieve our troops....anywhere... I don't know where we are haded...but i do know what we left.....
 
#5,952
#5,952
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
It's the SEC.....that's a rather competative title.and more often then not means yoru going to the National Championship game.

If your not a serious contender for the National Championship your not likely to get a SEC title either.
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And yet you didn't answer the question
 
#5,953
#5,953
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
I don't think he ever lost his edge coaching. However even as much as I love Phil as a coach, it is fair to say he had fallen from his A game on recruiting and certainly Chavis had...

My main thing still is even slipping he was still doing better then the coaches we have had prior...
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He never had a "coaching edge". He out recruited a lot of people and beat them due to a ridiculous amount of talent, which is fine.

However, when he fell from his A game, he lost the only thing that kept him from being a merely decent coach.

He was not. How many times did Tennessee go a decade without a conference title?
 
#5,954
#5,954
Some one else did. Personally though i find the question to not be very useful. Again...to win the SEC title you have to be a front runner for NC usually.....in those past decades this was NOT the case. The SEC has never been more dominant or had as many year in year out dominant teams as it had the past 10-15 years....Certainly many of our past SEC title winner teams were not in the race for NC many of those years....it's going to be much tougher to win SEC titles for awhile... but I like that....means better football.
 
#5,955
#5,955
milohimself said:
Take as much time as you need, bucko.


I haven't been bashful about admiration for Franklin on here. I think he's a fine coach. Doesn't make it par for the course, and while I don't think Dooley is the long term answer for UT, I also don't think 14 losses in his first two years is grounds to get fired right then.
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14 losses is not grounds for a unproven coach to be removed but 2 losing seasons by a hof bcs nc coach w/ 152 w,s is grounds enough for you.

BRILLANT........see how easy that is to turn around.

and you wonder why your working the night shift :p
 
#5,956
#5,956
milohimself said:
Pretty sad that you're okay with a coach going ten years with no titles. Those are South Carolina standards.

As for it being okay to lose 13-14 games in the course of two years, given the situation we're in, I would say yes, it is.
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funny you mention USCjr, when they hired their last coach Hootie went out and got Spurrier, not hardly the same as Hamilton getting Kiffin and Dooley

so I'd say their standards were a little higher
 
#5,957
#5,957
PimpVol said:
We've never went this long without a conference title. Happy? What does it mean for you? What does that question intend to prove or disprove? Has the question been successful in its endeavors? What gives? Not winning a league title for ten years has no diminishing power on Fulmer's career. All you need to do is see that his final numbers are WAY up there. It is HIGHLY likely no Tennessee coach even gets to 100 wins period. Let alone 100 more wins than losses. Quit hating and enjoy it. It may be awhile before you see it again. Like 50 years.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Longest time between championships for UT

1998-2011 (present) 13 yrs

1969-1985* 16 yrs

* won because UF on probation

1956-1967 11yrs


not the longest between championships....yet
 
#5,958
#5,958
vol_in_il said:
funny you mention USCjr, when they hired their last coach Hootie went out and got Spurrier, not hardly the same as Hamilton getting Kiffin and Dooley

so I'd say their standards were a little higher
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Didn't Kiffin's team beat the brakes off of Spurrier? With Jonathan Crompton and walk-on linemen?
 
#5,959
#5,959
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
I don't think he ever lost his edge coaching. However even as much as I love Phil as a coach, it is fair to say he had fallen from his A game on recruiting and certainly Chavis had...They were as good as ever getting guys ready...but they had taken for granted a conference where every player had UT on his top two sec schools list.....the competition in recruiting had gone up, and they hadn't really adapted.....However he had a 3rd best per rivals in 2007 and 4th best in 2005....so it's not like he had forgotten how, it was just less consistant. Given motivation I have no doubt that would have changed.... He had excellent reputation with parents always for getting their kids to a professional career.

Also He really needed a better replacement for Cut....I don't know that Clawson was as bad as people joke....he had only a short time to try and teach a complex scheme....he certainly was no worse then Chaney is currently doing and i don't think Chaney is that bad...it's just neither are that great either...

My main thing still is even slipping he was still doing better then the coaches we have had prior...and should have been given at least the end of the season. the timing wa snot about him or even about what was best for the program, rather an opportunity timing wise for Hamilton to strike while the fire was hot.....I said then it would end up costing him his job...and it did.
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true to a point,the fans were hankering for the spread offense and cpf stepped out from his comfort zone and gave it a shot.

hired clawson,a supposed spread guru and had lined up tajh boyd to run it.

only problem,our wonderfull fanbase and administration had no patience to see it through.before the year was up,cpf was shown the door.

i truly would have liked to see how it would have turned out.i suspect we would have simular results as clemson is having now.

shame of it is we wouldnt give a couple yrs to recruit the players for the spread,but now are willing to give our new coach 4 or 5 years to get back to where we were.

ive always preferred pro style to the spread but it would have been interesting to see how it would turn out.

as far as recruiting,cpf had a great class lined up.he also had a run of bad luck w/ top rated recruits who didnt measure up or got the boot for indulging in the mj ect
 
#5,960
#5,960
VKAman said:
Didn't Kiffin's team beat the brakes off of Spurrier? With Jonathan Crompton and walk-on linemen?
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Wait either Fulmer and Chavis ran the program into the ground and left us with no talant....or Kiffin won with Players all coached up by Fulmer and Chavis as well as being recruited by them.......

You can't in some posts say their rotten recruiters...and then celebrate the same players the first year a new coach comes in.

You do realize that players not coaches go out and play the game...and that nothing done in a single year effects a team as much as the past 3 years...

Remember Eric berry? and all our other great play makers? Who would you say was more responsible for bringing them to UT, and for teaching them the college level and preparing them?

If you were rational at all you'd have to at some point own up to the good things Fulmer did as well as the mistakes. That you only put the negative view on everything even when it is contrary to the actual stats...shows an emotional response...not a rational one.
 
#5,962
#5,962
posivol said:
14 losses is not grounds for a unproven coach to be removed but 2 losing seasons by a hof bcs nc coach w/ 152 w,s is grounds enough for you.

BRILLANT........see how easy that is to turn around.

and you wonder why your working the night shift :p
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I would like you to find where I said two losing seasons was grounds for Fulmer's firing.

Let me save you the effort.

I didn't.

I know why I work the night shift, they have these things called time zones. Maybe you've heard of them.

vol_in_il said:
funny you mention USCjr, when they hired their last coach Hootie went out and got Spurrier, not hardly the same as Hamilton getting Kiffin and Dooley

so I'd say their standards were a little higher
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Not Dooley, but I don't see how we could have pulled anyone better at the time. And taking away the armchair coach factor, hiring a guy from the NFL to a college program is almost always considered a home run. Obviously didn't work out that way, but that's the way it is.
 
#5,967
#5,967
posivol said:
true to a point,the fans were hankering for the spread offense and cpf stepped out from his comfort zone and gave it a shot.

hired clawson,a supposed spread guru and had lined up tajh boyd to run it.

only problem,our wonderfull fanbase and administration had no patience to see it through.before the year was up,cpf was shown the door.
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More proof of why you don't listen to idiot negafans..and had Hamilton and other admin not seem to think Fulmer's multi decades might know more then that years whining fans perhaps he would not have been pressured to do so. It was as simple as... "we lost to Florida" "Florida used a spread offense" "a spread offense must be best" "we want a spread offense" this is the general sad thought process of the NegaVol.....

In any case you had players that had for years been organized to play one style of offense, suddenly a complete different offensive style of play is asked for and he's not given a complete season to work the kinks out....I completely agree...

posivol said:
i truly would have liked to see how it would have turned out.i suspect we would have simular results as clemson is having now.
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Maybe...maybe not Clemson busted out big time in recruiting then..and that recruiting is now a senior class...guess it depends on the complete different cast we'd have had then.....but it would have to be a better situation then the depth we have now...or lack there of.

posivol said:
shame of it is we wouldnt give a couple yrs to recruit the players for the spread,but now are willing to give our new coach 4 or 5 years to get back to where we were.

ive always preferred pro style to the spread but it would have been interesting to see how it would turn out.

as far as recruiting,cpf had a great class lined up.he also had a run of bad luck w/ top rated recruits who didnt measure up or got the boot for indulging in the mj ect
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We kinda have to be patient now....the negavols got their change, and we've had non stop turmoil since....we have to suck it up and realize we've set ourselves back a decade or more. Maybe Dooley is the next greatest SEC coach....but he'll need time to build it up enough if only to be able to finally have a choice of who goes packing and who stays, right now he has no choice but to play the hand dealt to him.

The bad luck (for Phil) ....was I think partially his fault. Phil is the nicest guy....but that has at times hurt him when the team needed a strong disciplinarian.....if I have one major complaint about him more then the unfair accusations that get leveled at him...it's that he seemed to me at times a little too easy going when players got out of hand.....He needed a lil Red Forman in him to give more swift kicks to the &** from time to time. But I gaurantee he is closer today to his ex players then say Spurrier is....
 
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#5,968
#5,968
posivol said:
14 losses is not grounds for a unproven coach to be removed but 2 losing seasons by a hof bcs nc coach w/ 152 w,s is grounds enough for you.

BRILLANT........see how easy that is to turn around.

and you wonder why your working the night shift :p
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You're comparing two totally different eras and situations.....look at the Srs and redshirt Jrs for the contributions Fulmer made to the current roster

Fulmer never had to rebuild the program. He inherited it in the best shape it had been in since the early 70's....
 
#5,969
#5,969
posivol said:
true to a point,the fans were hankering for the spread offense and cpf stepped out from his comfort zone and gave it a shot.

hired clawson,a supposed spread guru and had lined up tajh boyd to run it.

only problem,our wonderfull fanbase and administration had no patience to see it through.before the year was up,cpf was shown the door.

i truly would have liked to see how it would have turned out.i suspect we would have simular results as clemson is having now.

shame of it is we wouldnt give a couple yrs to recruit the players for the spread,but now are willing to give our new coach 4 or 5 years to get back to where we were.

ive always preferred pro style to the spread but it would have been interesting to see how it would turn out.

as far as recruiting,cpf had a great class lined up.he also had a run of bad luck w/ top rated recruits who didnt measure up or got the boot for indulging in the mj ect
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Damn dude...do you have a buddah statue of Fulmer in your living room that you worship every day?
 
#5,974
#5,974
milohimself said:
I would like you to find where I said two losing seasons was grounds for Fulmer's firing.

Let me save you the effort.

I didn't.

I know why I work the night shift, they have these things called time zones. Maybe you've heard of them.

all im reading from you is it was time for cpf to go,potato/pototo reads the same but whatever

understand time zones,shift work not so much

i had you pegged for a d1 hc :)
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#5,975
#5,975
Carl Pickens said:
Of course I did bung hole.....many of them and I appreciated Fulmer....but Posivol has scary man love for the big 'un.....guess you do to:the_finger:
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Fooled us. Usually people over 35 dont use the term "bung hole". They tend to be more mature. Or at least educated.
 
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