Fulmer “could have coach Vols again”

#51
#51
WoodsmanVol said:
My take was he had gotten fat and lazy. Many recruits wanted to play for Fulmer but he was no longer even doing recruiting trips. Was a time other coaches would damn their luck when Fulmer showed up to meet recruit. But not even visiting recruits, quality of the same dropped off. Then reports/claims were that he had his desk in an elevated position, basically looking down on anyone who entered his office. That he'd primarily made himself just a figurehead with little real supervision over his staff. Perhaps the NC went to his head, I don't know. There were other unsavory claims made by a high profile recruit and others that suggested PF was too lax, resting on his laurels as it were.

How about his coaching again? NO! NO! NO! The game has passed him by. He's out of date with today's offense and defense strategies, scheme, and such. I question the quality of assistants he'd attract. While I wouldn't question his dedication to come back and redeem his letting the program sink as he did, I believe his time has come and gone. As the AD, I think we're in good hands but not as a coach. But that's just me.
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I'm pretty sure your 1st paragraph was you too....made up bs!
 
#52
#52
#53
#53
Mccage said:
I'm pretty sure your 1st paragraph was you too....made up bs!
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Nope, read this in an article 2yrs after he was fired. Fact or fancy, I'm inclined to believe it but that doesn't mean the article was true, doesn't it was false either. Phil himself has in the past validated some of that stuff by his own statements when he admitted he had contributed to our decline. Sorry, the post hurt your Fulmeristic ultra-thin skin feelings. I'm not fat, sort of on the slim side and retired but Shirley always keeps me busy with house repairs, installations, gardening, mushroom hunting, and "wrestling."
 
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#54
#54
Fulmer “could have coach Vols again”
IF Fulmer would have taken the reigns again, he'd had to have been extremely successful again or else he'd killed his legacy completely. I believe he'd had to win at least 1 or 2 SEC championships and play in a NC game or it would have just verified he'd let it slip away the first time. Many, including myself felt that his last 4-5 years obviously indicated a downward spiral that didn't should signs of reversing except while Cut came back.
Glad he's the AD and really appreciate his first 10 years as a HC and certainly all the years before that doing a great job under Majors, but it was certainly time for Phil and UT to move on at that time he was forced to resign. Unfortunately it turned into a decade of mostly terrible coaching and teams for the Vol faithful, but that didn't mean moving on past Fulmer was the problem. The problem was the hires our beloved school made afterwards.
Fingers crossed he's gonna give JP all he needs to get UT back to being in the hunt for SEC titles at some point in the not to distance future. GBO!
 
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#55
#55
TennesseeTarheel said:
I remember during his last season thinking that he had lost his drive. I had no special information to support it, but, that was just my impression from watching from a distance. Maybe it was something happening in his life causing a distraction, but that is just my speculation. Perhaps if he had re-taken the role, he would've been great. At this point, I like him as AD, though.
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IMO, once Richt and Urban entered the conference and started eating his lunch in the recruiting department, Phil kind of started coasting and was just planning on hanging on to break Neyland's all-time wins record. He finished just 21 wins short of it even with the 2 losing seasons in 2005 and 2008. Coming into the 2008 season, I think his plan was to coach 2-3 more years, hope that was enough time to get over 173 wins, then retire as the school's all-time winningest coach.

Phil didn't have the energy level or dynamism of Richt and Urban, and he knew it. The conference had all of a sudden gotten more competitive than it was in the 90s, and I just don't think Phil was up to it. Not only was his on-the-field product not as good the last 4-5 years, but he also had a couple stinker recruiting classes too.
 
#56
#56
BeecherVol said:
Honestly he didn't need to try. While he has sort of a mixed legacy, the scales tip toward the good side. Coming back would have been a huge gamble in regards to that with the odds not being in his favor. The higher percentage play was hiring the guy that turns it around and getting credit for that.
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Is this a joke? Mixed legacy? There are 2 people alive who coached UT football to a national championship. Only one of them went undefeated. Say what you will about his record getting worse later in his career as the SEC got better (although consider our last SEC division championship came in his next-to-last season), there is no mixed legacy. Fulmer is the greatest living coach and 2nd greatest coach in the history of UT football.
 
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#57
#57
WoodsmanVol said:
Nope, read this in an article 2yrs after he was fired. Fact or fancy, I'm inclined to believe it but that doesn't mean the article was true, doesn't it was false either. Phil himself has in the past validated some of that stuff by his own statements when he admitted he had contributed to our decline. Sorry, the post hurt your Fulmeristic ultra-thin skin feelings. I'm not fat, sort of on the slim side and retired but Shirley always keeps me busy with house repairs, installations, gardening, mushroom hunting, and "wrestling."
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You are confusing Fulmer with Dooley. It was Dooley that had the elevated desk.
 
#58
#58
1 in 102 455 said:
Ultimately, no man has ever said at his death bed he wishes he had worked more during his life. Men wish they spent more time with their families or doing something they loved. Now, I know if you love your work and you are passionate about it, it’s far more enjoyable. But even for all the football coaches out there that love the game so much they’ll spend their entire lives involved in it in some way, it’s still very much “work” when you’re in the film room or on the road 24/7. I think that’s evident by the coaches you see stepping down and retiring when they very well could keep going for years (e.g., Shoop).
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Totally agree here...great example is Stoops.
Retired from Oklahoma because he saw and felt the grind wearing away at him. Saw an opportunity to coach guys not in an NFL (entitled) mindset and none of the grind of the 24/7/365 schedule.

If you've seen any XFL games, you can tell the guy is having a blast and has a real passion still.
 
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#59
#59
If you've ever coached or played a team sport at a high level and won a championship then you know and respect people that are able to follow up and do it again. It's one of the most elusive things to find the right chemistry and talent to put a championship season together again after having done it the first time. We see back to backs on ocassion but threepeats are very rare no matter the sport. An example few would argue with Nick Saban at Bama has been their HC since the 2007 season. It's 2020, he's extremely successful in that he has won 6 NCs during that tenure. He only went back to back once, 2011 & 2012. Yet he arguably has the best talent or very close to it the whole time he's been there. His staff's have been 2nd to none. PF had another NC championship team after the '98 group but he let it get away from them IMO. Following as often is the case his staff changed majorly and moved on to bigger and better things. Few of the teams of his afterwards were close to NC caliber teams IMO. Recruiting slipped over time and PF ended up sort of by himself with a program that was not doing well and he could see no way out. He was trying to make the magic happen again and could not. I do not fault him as he was giving his best effort but he had to go when he did. I'm happy he is our AD and I am happy with his performance in that job so far. But once that magic of a championship season gets lost it's very very hard to duplicate and it's why many respect people like Dabo and Saban who keep close to that elusive prize after having done it before IMO.
 
#61
#61
rocky top buzz said:
Is this a joke? Mixed legacy? There are 2 people alive who coached UT football to a national championship. Only one of them went undefeated. Say what you will about his record getting worse later in his career as the SEC got better (although consider our last SEC division championship came in his next-to-last season), there is no mixed legacy. Fulmer is the greatest living coach and 2nd greatest coach in the history of UT football.
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Not at all.
He had very successful years during his career. Back to back SEC titles with a NC being 2 of those seasons. And several other good seasons in and around those. Those are facts.

Yes, his record did get worse and it wasn't all due to the fact that the conference (specifically UF and Bama) had gotten better. The program was in good shape when he took it over from Majors. He took it to the next level then regressed to a level below what he inherited and was eventually fired for it. Those are facts as well.

Nothing wrong with giving credit for both. As I also stated his good out weighed his bad.
 
#62
#62
Fulmer had a decade where he was as good as anyone. I will always wonder what if we didn't play the mustang package on 3rd and Chavis, and go ultra conservative any time we had a lead in a big game. I always thought he should've won more SEC Titles and at least 1 more National Title.
 
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#63
#63
VolDC said:
Fulmer had a decade where he was as good as anyone. I will always wonder what if we didn't play the mustang package on 3rd and Chavis, and go ultra conservative any time we had a lead in a big game. I always thought he should've won more SEC Titles and at least 1 more National Title.
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Fulmer undoubtedly should have had 1 more SEC title (2001) and he should have been able to nip Florida an additional time (perhaps in 1996 or 1999, which were very close games) to get into the SECCG. We beat the eventual SEC champs (Alabama) in 1999 during the regular season.
 
#64
#64
Living through the Fulmer years was always peaks and valleys. Man, he had some teams that you know if they just freakin clicked instead of looking like the football follies, they would have torn up the world. But when they did click, it was exhilarating, a thing of beauty. Which is why it made it so frustrating to have watched that talent go into conservative mode with a lead. But I have only good things to say about the man. He has bled pure Orange his entire life, even his sweat has an orange tint to it. It's so nice to have him as the AD. It's like you can feel a calm to the entire athletic department and beyond. I feel like he is right where he belongs at the right time. Go Vols 2020!
 
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#65
#65
BeecherVol said:
The former coach and competitor in him is basically saying "I haven't forgot how to coach football, Im just not interested in the time and effort required to run the program anymore."

Honestly he didn't need to try. While he has sort of a mixed legacy, the scales tip toward the good side. Coming back would have been a huge gamble in regards to that with the odds not being in his favor. The higher percentage play was hiring the guy that turns it around and getting credit for that.
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hahhahahahaha "a mixed legacy" . . . .. hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha

That's like saying Waylon Jennings has a mixed legacy . . .
 
#66
#66
volholio said:
hahhahahahaha "a mixed legacy" . . . .. hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha

That's like saying Waylon Jennings has a mixed legacy . . .
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He didnt ride off iinto the sunset leaving the program where he found it or even in a good position. It went to a bad place and he lost his job over it.

It's the facts minus personal feelings.
 
#67
#67
rocky top buzz said:
Is this a joke? Mixed legacy? There are 2 people alive who coached UT football to a national championship. Only one of them went undefeated. Say what you will about his record getting worse later in his career as the SEC got better (although consider our last SEC division championship came in his next-to-last season), there is no mixed legacy. Fulmer is the greatest living coach and 2nd greatest coach in the history of UT football.
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"Mixed legacy" is too negative a term to describe his career (that's a better term for someone with a ton of off-field baggage like Urban Meyer), but you also can't gloss over the fact that the first half of his career was much, much better than the second half, and he left the program in fairly poor shape (that got a lot worse, but it wasn't great when he left). He had a great career, but late in his tenure Tennessee was getting its doors blown off by rivals and he was ultimately fired because of that.
 
#68
#68
05_never_again said:
Fulmer undoubtedly should have had 1 more SEC title (2001) and he should have been able to nip Florida an additional time (perhaps in 1996 or 1999, which were very close games) to get into the SECCG. We beat the eventual SEC champs (Alabama) in 1999 during the regular season.
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I could make an argument that we won, were better than or should’ve beaten Florida in ‘98,99,00,01,03,04, 05, 06. 2002 was just an unmitigated disaster that is still to this day is inexplicable.
 
#69
#69
RDU VOL#14 said:
I could make an argument that we won, were better than or should’ve beaten Florida in ‘98,99,00,01,03,04, 05, 06. 2002 was just an unmitigated disaster that is still to this day is inexplicable.
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I think you can expand it even beyond that. Peyton went 0-4 against Florida from 1994-97. In 1995 we scored 37 points on their defense and blew a 16 point lead...that could have been a win. In 1996 we lost by 6 at home and were actually ranked higher than them coming into the game. Peyton's teams probably should have gone 2-2 against Florida and some of them (like the 1997 team) might have even been slightly more talented on paper than Florida was.

Most other Vol fans laugh when I say this, but I want to win the Florida game more than any other every year. I say that because no matter the relative strength of the teams, they almost always seem to win. You can't really say that about any other rival. If the game seems to be an effective toss-up (i.e., both programs are up or both programs are down), they win. When Florida is good and Tennessee is bad (which has often been the case lately), they win. Even in the rare cases where Tennessee has been relatively good and Florida has been relatively bad, they still occasionally win (like the 2002 game you mentioned).

We have some kind of mental funk with Florida that reminds me a lot of the funk Kentucky fans have with Tennessee. Kentucky should be better than 2-13 against us since 2005; they could/should have wins in 2007, 2009, 2018, 2019, perhaps others. One of the two wins was when a bowl-eligible Kentucky team barely defeated what was arguably the worst Tennessee team in history in Lexington, which isn't saying a whole lot. Vandy, by comparison, is 6-9 against us over that same time period.
 
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#70
#70
05_never_again said:
I think you can expand it even beyond that. Peyton went 0-4 against Florida from 1994-97. In 1995 we scored 37 points on their defense and blew a 16 point lead...that could have been a win. In 1996 we lost by 6 at home and were actually ranked higher than them coming into the game. Peyton's teams probably should have gone 2-2 against Florida and some of them (like the 1997 team) might have even been slightly more talented on paper than Florida was.

Most other Vol fans laugh when I say this, but I want to win the Florida game more than any other every year. I say that because no matter the relative strength of the teams, they almost always seem to win. You can't really say that about any other rival. If the game seems to be an effective toss-up (i.e., both programs are up or both programs are down), they win. When Florida is good and Tennessee is bad (which has often been the case lately), they win. Even in the rare cases where Tennessee has been relatively good and Florida has been relatively bad, they still occasionally win (like the 2002 game you mentioned).

We have some kind of mental funk with Florida that reminds me a lot of the funk Kentucky fans have with Tennessee. Kentucky should be better than 2-13 against us since 2005; they could/should have wins in 2007, 2009, 2018, 2019, perhaps others. One of the two wins was when a bowl-eligible Kentucky team barely defeated what was arguably the worst Tennessee team in history in Lexington, which isn't saying a whole lot. Vandy, by comparison, is 6-9 against us over that same time period.
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Didn’t you know we lost those games because Peyton was QB?;)

I don’t know about that ‘96 game, we got behind something like 35-0 in the blink of an eye. I was only 14 so I don‘t remember all the specifics, but it felt like the Gators called off the dogs. I think you’re right though, we do have a mental block against them. In all honesty, we should’ve been tied or had the lead this year going into the half. That doesn’t mean we were better by any stretch of the imagination, but we’ve manage to play our worst SEC game of the season against them the past 2 seasons. They will be good this season, but it should be a 4 quarter game I think. I‘ll pretty honest here, we all know what it comes down to. We have to play mistake free football and make the plays that are there to be made. We sure as hell didn’t do that last year.
 
#71
#71
RDU VOL#14 said:
Didn’t you know we lost those games because Peyton was QB?;)

I don’t know about that ‘96 game, we got behind something like 35-0 in the blink of an eye. I was only 14 so I don‘t remember all the specifics, but it felt like the Gators called off the dogs. I think you’re right though, we do have a mental block against them. In all honesty, we should’ve been tied or had the lead this year going into the half. That doesn’t mean we were better by any stretch of the imagination, but we’ve manage to play our worst SEC game of the season against them the past 2 seasons. They will be good this season, but it should be a 4 quarter game I think. I‘ll pretty honest here, we all know what it comes down to. We have to play mistake free football and make the plays that are there to be made. We sure as hell didn’t do that last year.
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That's right, I forgot that the 1996 game was down 35-0 (or 35-7) at half. So the final score is pretty misleading. I was 9 years old.
 
#72
#72
05_never_again said:
"Mixed legacy" is too negative a term to describe his career (that's a better term for someone with a ton of off-field baggage like Urban Meyer), but you also can't gloss over the fact that the first half of his career was much, much better than the second half, and he left the program in fairly poor shape (that got a lot worse, but it wasn't great when he left). He had a great career, but late in his tenure Tennessee was getting its doors blown off by rivals and he was ultimately fired because of that.
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I agree if you re making the claim that "off the field issues" or character questions are why Fulmer's legacy is mixed by comparison to Meyers, yes.

Didn't use the comparison for good reason.

Meyers legacy will be looked at as a better coach than Fulmer with more off the field issues.

Fulmer will be looked at as a successful coach the let the program go and got fired.

Both are "mixed" for different reasons.
 
#73
#73
sjt18 said:
He's in the role he was made for. He seems to be the type who loses objectivity when he's too close to a situation.

He simply wasn't a very good HC without Cut... and wasn't good enough at evaluating and hiring people to fire Sanders and find someone more like Cut when things started falling off.
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/thread
 
#74
#74
RDU VOL#14 said:
Didn’t you know we lost those games because Peyton was QB?;)

I don’t know about that ‘96 game, we got behind something like 35-0 in the blink of an eye. I was only 14 so I don‘t remember all the specifics, but it felt like the Gators called off the dogs. I think you’re right though, we do have a mental block against them. In all honesty, we should’ve been tied or had the lead this year going into the half. That doesn’t mean we were better by any stretch of the imagination, but we’ve manage to play our worst SEC game of the season against them the past 2 seasons. They will be good this season, but it should be a 4 quarter game I think. I‘ll pretty honest here, we all know what it comes down to. We have to play mistake free football and make the plays that are there to be made. We sure as hell didn’t do that last year.
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Solid post.

I don’t write off the Vols until you couldn’t pull off the win on PlayStation(Is that the game these days? I’m about to go get whipped by my 6 year old at Nintendo switch.).

I was at “The Miracle” and when we beat Florida last. I’ve been to some questionable Victories. Our bowl game, The Sugar Bowl against Virginia.

Y’all are blest with youth. Use it wisely.

The good news is that we seem to have made a turn for the better. Things are looking up for the Vols. We have an AD that bleeds Orange, a HC that has a passion for winning, and a fan base that is ready to really show up. That’s a good combination.

To be balanced, I’ve shared in the agony of defeat way more than I care to count. My brother says the next best thing to going to a win is going to a loss.

Go to games and enjoy the experience.

Spend your youth wisely. Spend it on the Vols. I’ve had some many fond memories of going to games. Spending time with family and friend while watching the Vols win, those have been really good times.

Going to a Vols game is a lot like fishing. If you’re not catching fish, at least keep good company.

I really don’t have a particular team that I would prefer a with over. All of them of corse. As bad as that Ga St loss was, I wouldn’t trade it for any win we did get. Anytime we lose 3 SEC games, well, that’s a hard pill to swallow.

Time for me to take my beating. Wish me luck.
 
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