Four out one in

[ColinS]

What about starting four guards with Pons at center. Let Fulky get his minutes off the bench rotating at the 4 and the 5. He is a more natural 4. Any way you slice it we are not gonna have any productive size on the post and this gets an unproductive freshman out of the rotation and puts our best rebounder at the 4 in JJJ. If you have a small ball roster then you might as well embrace it.

 

[cncchris33]

What about starting four guards with Pons at center. Let Fulky get his minutes off the bench rotating at the 4 and the 5. He is a more natural 4. Any way you slice it we are not gonna have any productive size on the post and this gets an unproductive freshman out of the rotation and puts our best rebounder at the 4 in JJJ. If you have a small ball roster then you might as well embrace it.

If we are going to shake up the starting lineup, I’d rather see us bring Bowden off the bench and keep Fulk in there.

Vescovi, James, Gaines, Pons, and Fulk would be my first shot at an experimental lineup. That is still 6-3, 6-6, 6-7, 6-6, and 6-9. Not a land of giants lineup, but enough height to be competitive on the boards.

Bring Bowden, Nkamhoua, Johnson and Pember off the bench in that order.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I am all in for any lineup that produces wins.

 

[tennrich1]

What about starting four guards with Pons at center. Let Fulky get his minutes off the bench rotating at the 4 and the 5. He is a more natural 4. Any way you slice it we are not gonna have any productive size on the post and this gets an unproductive freshman out of the rotation and puts our best rebounder at the 4 in JJJ. If you have a small ball roster then you might as well embrace it.

I'm certainly not opposed to starting a 4 guard lineup but the big concern for me is the perimeter shooting. It looks like SV has a great stroke and we know Bowden does somewhere (not sure where he left it) but right now its certainly not a strength for us and, at least in my mind, a 4 guard lineup would need to be a strong perimeter shooting team with quickness (which I don't think is a strength either). I also agree that JB probably needs to come off the bench for a while for his sake alone. Something. Anything to try and loose the chains that have him tensed which is obviously affecting his stroke. 4 guard lineup? Let's try it. Auburn made it to the final 4 with 4 guards on the floor a lot last year.

 

[cardvolfan]

If we are going to shake up the starting lineup, I’d rather see us bring Bowden off the bench and keep Fulk in there.

Vescovi, James, Gaines, Pons, and Fulk would be my first shot at an experimental lineup. That is still 6-3, 6-6, 6-7, 6-6, and 6-9. Not a land of giants lineup, but enough height to be competitive on the boards.

Bring Bowden, Nkamhoua, Johnson and Pember off the bench in that order.

Yeah, Fulky has to be out there in my opinion. Bowden coming off the bench takes some self-imposed pressure off the kid. Then give the most minutes going forward to whoever produces the best.

 

[lostsheep]

IMO, 4 out offenses struggle with offensive rebounds. In addition (as has been said), 4 guys on the perimeter that struggle to make shots isn't desirable either.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

If we are going to shake up the starting lineup, I’d rather see us bring Bowden off the bench and keep Fulk in there.

Vescovi, James, Gaines, Pons, and Fulk would be my first shot at an experimental lineup. That is still 6-3, 6-6, 6-7, 6-6, and 6-9. Not a land of giants lineup, but enough height to be competitive on the boards.

Bring Bowden, Nkamhoua, Johnson and Pember off the bench in that order.

I totally agree with bringing Bowden off the bench. Probably most likely way he will get out of his shooting slump

 

[spyfish007]

You guys are arguing if water is wet. Pons was playing the #3 spot last year. It is really about what type of offense you are running with those players.

 

[VolArmy74]

Being competitive on the boards is less about height than it is about attitude. Rodman and Barkley were 6'7 and 6'4 and battled for the NBA rebounding title every year because they worked hard on that part of their game. Rodman didn't even have the advantage of width that Barkley had. You can always play defense and rebound, even if you can't shoot. I wish we had some guys who would embrace the board work in a big time fashion.

 

[JoAllan]

You guys want Bowden to sit (because of offense) and have who, In his place?

Gaines would be the only real option (I would think)........Gaines is shooting 32% and 25%.

I love Gaines and think he will turn into a fine player.......however if you guys are wanting “more” O.......your best bet is probably to keep Bowden in and hope for the best.

Not even sure why were having this conversation.....seriously. I mean I understand Bowden has been struggling.....but have you taken a good look at the roster? There is young talent there......but right now no where does it (the roster) show the ability to take over “offensively” for a struggling Bowden......there simply isn’t anyone there.

If Gaines were shooting 40% and 35%......I’d say sure.......but he isn’t.......his numbers are worse than Bowden’s.......and we “know” Bowden has the ability (at this level) to improve or to get back to his “normality”......we don’t yet “know” “if” Gaines or someone else can.....but we do know the numbers........the numbers say......stick with Bowden.

 

[ColinS]

You guys want Bowden to sit (because of offense) and have who, In his place?

Gaines would be the only real option (I would think)........Gaines is shooting 32% and 25%.

I love Gaines and think he will turn into a fine player.......however if you guys are wanting “more” O.......your best bet is probably to keep Bowden in and hope for the best.

Not even sure why were having this conversation.....seriously. I mean I understand Bowden has been struggling.....but have you taken a good look at the roster? There is young talent there......but right now no where does it (the roster) show the ability to take over “offensively” for a struggling Bowden......there simply isn’t anyone there.

If Gaines were shooting 40% and 35%......I’d say sure.......but he isn’t.......his numbers are worse than Bowden’s.......and we “know” Bowden has the ability (at this level) to improve or to get back to his “normality”......we don’t yet “know” “if” Gaines or someone else can.....but we do know the numbers........the numbers say......stick with Bowden.

We have a flawed lineup no matter how we did it but at some point it wouldn't hurt to try something different. The addition of Vescovi makes this possible and Fulky still gets most of his minutes he just splits them at two different positions.

 

[wtmvol]

If we are going to shake up the starting lineup, I’d rather see us bring Bowden off the bench and keep Fulk in there.

Vescovi, James, Gaines, Pons, and Fulk would be my first shot at an experimental lineup. That is still 6-3, 6-6, 6-7, 6-6, and 6-9. Not a land of giants lineup, but enough height to be competitive on the boards.

Bring Bowden, Nkamhoua, Johnson and Pember off the bench in that order.

Agreed. Not to punish Bowden. But throughout his career he’s been better coming off the bench. He needs something to get him going and his confidence back up. The dude is crazy good when his confidence is up.

 

[pimo1]

What about starting four guards with Pons at center. Let Fulky get his minutes off the bench rotating at the 4 and the 5. He is a more natural 4. Any way you slice it we are not gonna have any productive size on the post and this gets an unproductive freshman out of the rotation and puts our best rebounder at the 4 in JJJ. If you have a small ball roster then you might as well embrace it.

this aint nba2k

its crazy how people think real life works like a video game. There is a lot more going out than just throwing random lineups on the floor. Do they match the scheme you're talking about? Have they been coached to play in that scheme does it match the coaches program? Second, running 4 out makes zero sense with this team even if it was a game that would be assuming you had 4 SHOOTERS afaik we have 1 proven shooter and he's only played one game so far. How about we accept the reality that this season is gonna be exactly what folks expected preseason a rebuilding year. Let Coach teach these guys his system so they are ready next year when we do have the horses for this race.

Maybe we get lucky and make the NIT and get the extra games and practices that come with that.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Twss

Dallas is slacking.

 

[JoAllan]

We have a flawed lineup no matter how we did it but at some point it wouldn't hurt to try something different. The addition of Vescovi makes this possible and Fulky still gets most of his minutes he just splits them at two different positions.

No doubt things are highly flawed right now.

However Bowden’s career numbers are “much” better than he has been shooting lately. He is certainly in a slump but probably needs to “shoot” his way out. Long term numbers don’t usually vary too much for too long......and that is the main reason I think he needs to stay put.

The other reason is there really isn’t anyone “right now” that can give the offense that many of us are looking for / hoping for.

Gaines could certainly be put in and hey....maybe it will help for a game.....I don’t know. However, right now, he probably isn’t going to be able to give Tennessee 15-20 a night......but Bowden certainly can, and probably will again once he is back on track.

I know we’re all looking for “something” to give this team a spark.....but really everyone on the roster has played and has been given “the chance” to be that spark.........it simply better (at this point) to let Bowden “get back” as soon as he can.

 

[cncchris33]

You guys want Bowden to sit (because of offense) and have who, In his place?

Gaines would be the only real option (I would think)........Gaines is shooting 32% and 25%.

I love Gaines and think he will turn into a fine player.......however if you guys are wanting “more” O.......your best bet is probably to keep Bowden in and hope for the best.

Not even sure why were having this conversation.....seriously. I mean I understand Bowden has been struggling.....but have you taken a good look at the roster? There is young talent there......but right now no where does it (the roster) show the ability to take over “offensively” for a struggling Bowden......there simply isn’t anyone there.

If Gaines were shooting 40% and 35%......I’d say sure.......but he isn’t.......his numbers are worse than Bowden’s.......and we “know” Bowden has the ability (at this level) to improve or to get back to his “normality”......we don’t yet “know” “if” Gaines or someone else can.....but we do know the numbers........the numbers say......stick with Bowden.

If Bowden coming off the bench increases his confidence, and thus his play improves, then the overall effect is better for the team. Bowden can still play a similar number of minutes, just coming off the bench. Think similarly to what coming off the bench did for Guarantano’s confidence as a parallel.

It isn’t necessarily simply about getting “more O”. It’s about getting more efficient minutes out of Bowden by any means necessary.

 

[VolArmy74]

The only way out of slumps is to shoot your way out. At some point Bowden will come back to himself. He's always been a good scorer. If you move him to the bench imo, it'd be based on whether Barnes finds his defense acceptable.

 

[cncchris33]

The only way out of slumps is to shoot your way out. At some point Bowden will come back to himself. He's always been a good scorer. If you move him to the bench imo, it'd be based on whether Barnes finds his defense acceptable.

I have seen very few people, probably 0 logical people, suggest that Bowden be benched, outright.

Most people are suggesting that bringing off the bench after 3 or 4 minutes may change his outlook and impact on the game. He can still play the same number of minutes he’s playing now, just in a different way.

FWIW, two years ago, he lead the SEC and was 1st or 2nd in the nation in 3-pt FG%, and was having a fantastic start to his SO year thru the OOC portion of our schedule. He began to slump at the start of conference play, and never came out of it the rest of the season. He was 25-42 from 3 in the first 11 games (59.5%). He was 26-85 the rest of the way (30.5%) across 24 games.

Last season, it was almost the exact opposite scenario. He was 11-41 (26.8%) from 3 during the OOC portion of our schedule thru the first 12 games. He got hot to start conference play, and finished 37-94 (39.3%) over the final 23 games.

History, unfortunately, suggests that when he slumps, it lasts a long time, and he’s never been relied on to be the primary scorer, so that added pressure is forcing him to press even more. I just think a change is needed to get his head right. It isn’t necessarily to punish him, and he has been set down before with positive results. At this point, it is worth a try.

 

[RollerVol]

I bet Coach Barnes would love to read this thread...he's going through the same thing...what to do...

PS. about Bowden...JG usually played better off the bench but that's apples and oranges...coach will do what he thinks is the best and all we can do is pull for the team...they do need help...

GO BIG ORANGE!

 

[JoAllan]

If Bowden coming off the bench increases his confidence, and thus his play improves, then the overall effect is better for the team. Bowden can still play a similar number of minutes, just coming off the bench. Think similarly to what coming off the bench did for Guarantano’s confidence as a parallel.

It isn’t necessarily simply about getting “more O”. It’s about getting more efficient minutes out of Bowden by any means necessary.

I’m down for anything that helps. However if we are worried about “confidence” I don’t see how benching him and having him come in at some point helps that.

I’m not saying “Bowden as a 6th man” (or similar) wouldn’t help.....I don’t know. However if he has a “confidence” problem I dint think benching help helps that at all......I see it reenforcing his “lack” of confidence (if that was the problem).

For me I just don’t see confidence as the problem.....he’s still shooting and doing everything he has.......just not been hitting his shots......he’s just been in a slump. I’m wrong often, but I think he just need to shoot himself out of it.

 

[cncchris33]

I’m down for anything that helps. However if we are worried about “confidence” I don’t see how benching him and having him come in at some point helps that.

I’m not saying “Bowden as a 6th man” (or similar) wouldn’t help.....I don’t know. However if he has a “confidence” problem I dint think benching help helps that at all......I see it reenforcing his “lack” of confidence (if that was the problem).

For me I just don’t see confidence as the problem.....he’s still shooting and doing everything he has.......just not been hitting his shots......he’s just been in a slump. I’m wrong often, but I think he just need to shoot himself out of it.

A good coach will know how to communicate the benefits of changing up the rotation and routine for both the player and the team.

 

[JoAllan]

A good coach will know how to communicate the benefits of changing up the rotation and routine for both the player and the team.

I agree. Bowden is also a veteran player, who would know why he would be setting and understand it may be a good thing......but I still don’t think that would “help” his confidence.

It could help the team....I don’t know, and I’m often wrong....and it may help his confidence.....but I just don’t think it would.

Even a down Bowden is prob better than whatever the alternative is (my opinion)....as he is normally a solid shooter and scorer......no one else “normally” is.

Only my opinion, but I really think Tennessee is better suited to start him and play him and he will get out of the slump.

 

[JelloPuddinPup]

In years past if they wanted to bench Bowden they had a competent defensive squad to role out on the floor without him. This year, that isn't the case; especially with SV starting and not being the defender LT was.

I say reduce his minutes if he continues to slump (MIZZ game was much better) but you still have to start him. Benching him would significantly reduce our starting 5's defensive ceiling and we need defense to get back to the level it was earlier in the season or close if we're going to win. Won't matter much if Bowden starts scoring and he comes in when we're already down 10+.

 

[livefaith]

Whew, our offense is atrocious. 4 guys staking out the perimeter with an innefective post up game in the middle. One of the successes of small ball is the ability to run up and down with quicker guys and reduce 1/2 court sets.
We started out with what looked like elite guard ppl lay, but still philosophically were a 1/2 court methodical offense. That was perfect last year as shown by the nationally high 1pt per possession stat. We had an experienced inside out threat and elite distributor too.
Not to bring Pearl into this, but this is a lot like what he inherited from Buzz. He went controlled chaos and used our guards as out strength.
We don't have strength in the paint and we don't shoot well from the arc. We need a different approach it seems to me. This group is not going to succeed in 1/2 ct offense. Run it and press all over. That offense was hard to watch last night and most the season.

I'm sure Ricks waiting impatiently for my input!

 

[feathersax]

I bet Coach Barnes would love to read this thread...he's going through the same thing...what to do...

PS. about Bowden...JG usually played better off the bench but that's apples and oranges...coach will do what he thinks is the best and all we can do is pull for the team...they do need help...

GO BIG ORANGE!

Certainly CRB reads the threads with notepad & pencil at hand.