Former Player's Opinion on Current Program

[MikeVol44]

So?

Out of those 6... I'll list who held an offer from Bama:

Sam Montgomery.


I don't know that any of those players crack Bama's starting roster... assuming Bama even recruited them. Which they didn't.


In fact I'll list what SEC schools recruited which player:

Bennie Logan: crickets
Kevin Minter: Kentucky, USCe
Tyrann Mathieu: crickets
Sam Montgomery: pretty much everyone
Michael Brockers: crickets
Eric Reid: Tennessee


Maybe you folks need to wake up and realize that perhaps LSU is just squeezing the talent out of these guys. No SEC schools saw them coming. 3/4 of LSU's DL are guys nobody in the SEC wanted. I know giving any credit to Chief is frowned upon... but mayhaps he has an idea what he's doing.


Sleep on that.

Preach on, brother! I'll trade Wilcox to LSU for getting the Chief back TODAY! And I'll guarantee you he'll produce some sacks for us--even against LSU and Bammer...Just not on 3rd down! LOL!!!! :salute::gun:

 

[VOLtownUSA]

Preach on, brother! I'll trade Wilcox to LSU for getting the Chief back TODAY! And I'll guarantee you he'll produce some sacks for us--even against LSU and Bammer...Just not on 3rd down! LOL!!!! :salute::gun:

Sure, he'll magically make this crap D-line pass rush like Suh...you can only work with what you've got, fact is this front 7 is not able to get pressure even blitzing.

 

[DC Vol]

Preach on, brother! I'll trade Wilcox to LSU for getting the Chief back TODAY! And I'll guarantee you he'll produce some sacks for us--even against LSU and Bammer...Just not on 3rd down! LOL!!!! :salute::gun:

Chavis didn't scout and recruit those guys.

He also doesn't coach DL.

Frank Wilson - RC (remember that name?) and Brick Haley (DL coach) get the credit for LSU's DL scouting, recruitment and eventual progression.

 

[MikeVol44]

Thanks, but you guys just need to give Harry a break. I know him personally and he has taught some GREAT O-Lineman in the League. He could have went to pretty much any NFL team, but instead he went to TN. Give him time and he will have one of the best O-lines in the country. The boys just need to listen to what he says. And sometimes thats hard to do, with girls running around, Frat Parties, etc. I know, been there, done that. BUT, at the end of the day, you have to take playing in the SEC serious. They need to soak up everything that he says, get in the film room and find out what your doing wrong. They will improve, I promise. They cant get any worse. Maybe if he yanks them out and sits them on the pine for awhile that will put some worry in them. But when you dont have alot of depth, thats a problem too.

Oh and people are on the Stone kid (center) he will work through that. Going from left hand to right is hard. Wells had some issues with snapping in college too and occasionally makes mistakes now. So, be a little easy on the big guys up front.

On a positve note, they got pass blocking down PAT. Bray is hardly ever touched, now they just need to turn on that switch when a running play is called. The Mean, "What did you say about my mama" switch.

Thanks for the enlightenment! I haven't thought about the O-line getting gassed....but, should that still be a problem 5 games into the season? That's a sincere question, not trying to be smart...

If you know Hiestand, maybe you could "encourage" him with your thoughts and see if the O-line could come in lighter like you said...Being young is one thing, but as a fan--being heavy and getting tired too early would seem to be unacceptable... Is that right? :salute:

 

[MikeVol44]

Sure, he'll magically make this crap D-line pass rush like Suh...you can only work with what you've got, fact is these d-linemen are not able to get pressure even blitzing.

Uh....D-lineman don't blitz the last time I checked football 101...LBs, safeties, and/or CBs do....

We've got Jackson, Martin, Bohannon, Hood, J Smith, and Corey Miller--Jackson was all over the place in the UGA game--just not on passing downs--Wilcox just doesn't create mismatches against the Oline with what he has--it doesn't take magic to do that--any DC with half a brain could line up Jackson and Smith on weakside tackle and guard and blitz Maggitt through the gap there to get pressure--or even be creative and use our Dlineman's assets--quickness, strength, and speed--in the "prowler" on passing situations to create some confusion on the Oline...And if we're not going to at least try to sack the QB--then I'd rather rush 2 or 3 and drop 8 into a zone...

 

[VOLtownUSA]

Uh....D-lineman don't blitz the last time I checked football 101...LBs, safeties, and/or CBs do....

We've got Jackson, Martin, Bohannon, Hood, J Smith, and Corey Miller--Jackson was all over the place in the UGA game--just not on passing downs--Wilcox just doesn't create mismatches against the Oline with what he has--it doesn't take magic to do that--any DC with half a brain could line up Jackson and Smith on weakside tackle and guard and blitz Maggitt through the gap there to get pressure--or even be creative and use our Dlineman's assets--quickness, strength, and speed--in the "prowler" on passing situations to create some confusion on the Oline...And if we're not going to at least try to sack the QB--then I'd rather rush 2 or 3 and drop 8 into a zone...

I know that, don't know what I was thinking. Meant front 7 as a whole. I'll edit. :hi:

 

[DC Vol]

Uh....D-lineman don't blitz the last time I checked football 101...LBs, safeties, and/or CBs do....

I think what he was saying was that, with 4 DL and 2 LB blitzing making the path to the QB with 6 players and only 5 blockers (assuming RB/FB/etc aren't on block pickup) the DL still can't pressure.


I have only seen legit pressure from 1 DL and that was Jordan Williams. The DL doesn't seem that active with stunts, etc.

 

[VOLtownUSA]

What he was saying was that, with 4 DL and 2 LB blitzing making the path to the QB with 6 players and only 5 blockers (assuming RB/FB/etc aren't on block pickup) the DL still can't pressure.


I have only seen legit pressure from 1 DL and that was Jordan Williams. The DL doesn't seem that active with stunts, etc.

Bingo, I just butchered the way I said it :hi:

 

[GLDunlap]

So?

Out of those 6... I'll list who held an offer from Bama:

Sam Montgomery.


I don't know that any of those players crack Bama's starting roster... assuming Bama even recruited them. Which they didn't.


In fact I'll list what SEC schools recruited which player:

Bennie Logan: crickets
Kevin Minter: Kentucky, USCe
Tyrann Mathieu: crickets
Sam Montgomery: pretty much everyone
Michael Brockers: crickets
Eric Reid: Tennessee


Maybe you folks need to wake up and realize that perhaps LSU is just squeezing the talent out of these guys. No SEC schools saw them coming. 3/4 of LSU's DL are guys nobody in the SEC wanted. I know giving any credit to Chief is frowned upon... but mayhaps he has an idea what he's doing.


Sleep on that.

Your information and rationale are completely flawed. If you look at the "committed" dates on these players you will see that almost everyone if not everyone of them committed to LSU so early that it was pointless for others to offer. If you really believe no one in the SEC wanted these guys then your insane. I'm usually not so critical but in this case it's obvious you just don't care about being factual. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story right?

Sleep on that.

Don't forget Oct 6, 2001

 

[WA_Vol]

Possibly from a talent/potential standpoint we are. They have had continuity and go look at how many juniors and seniors they have.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

They have a lot of upperclassmen starting.

 

[WA_Vol]

Possibly from a talent/potential standpoint we are. They have had continuity and go look at how many juniors and seniors they have.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I looked at their roster, they are mainly juniors and seniors. But they don't have the talent UT has in terms of what they recruited out of high school.

 

[DC Vol]

Your information and rationale are completely flawed. If you look at the "committed" dates on these players you will see that almost everyone if not everyone of them committed to LSU so early that it was pointless for others to offer. If you really believe no one in the SEC wanted these guys then your insane. I'm usually not so critical but in this case it's obvious you just don't care about being factual. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story right?

Sleep on that.

So it's a good thing that when a kid makes a verbal commitment it's final and never wavers until signing day?



lol:



Right on, man. Keep dreaming the dream. A coaching staff looks at a kid:


"MAN! That kid is a monster! We'd love to have him! Too bad he gave LSU a verbal... better not touch him. We could use him, though!" Good thing JJ and Da'Rick held firm to their verbals and didn't waver.

 

[GLDunlap]

So it's a good thing that when a kid makes a verbal commitment it's final and never wavers until signing day?



lol:



Right on, man. Keep dreaming the dream. A coaching staff looks at a kid:


"MAN! That kid is a monster! We'd love to have him! Too bad he gave LSU a verbal... better not touch him. We could use him, though!" Good thing JJ and Da'Rick held firm to their verbals and didn't waver.

......

Very few players that commit early to a program like LSU change their commitment. The fact is the players you mentioned were all 4-5 star players that could have went anywhere in the country. You said nobody else in the SEC wanted them and that's ridiculous. They are all top 5-15 type players in the country at their position but nobody else wanted them?

JJ is the only big time commit LSU has lost in years and it's obvious why he wanted to get away. Do you really consider us getting JJ as a good thing? Two average years with tons of drama and suspension after suspension isn't really all that good.

btw, what does the first sentence even mean?

 

[DC Vol]

......

Very few players that commit early to a program like LSU change their commitment. The fact is the players you mentioned were all 4-5 star players that could have went anywhere in the country. You said nobody else in the SEC wanted them and that's ridiculous. They are all top 5-15 type players in the country at their position but nobody else wanted them?

JJ is the only big time commit LSU has lost in years and it's obvious why he wanted to get away. Do you really consider us getting JJ as a good thing? Two average years with tons of drama and suspension after suspension isn't really all that good.

btw, what does the first sentence even mean?

None of those guys I listed were 5* guys. All were 4* except for 1, who was a 3*.


Fact of the matter is this: 3 and 4* guys are dime-a-dozen in the Southeast and especially around Louisiana/Texas. LSU scouted them early, got them to commit and they didn't garner interest from any other school. Why would they? They aren't freaks (besides Sam Montgomery). They were average size/speed/etc for their position.


In the end... the "rubber meets the road". These kids still have to get coached up.... which they have. Brick Haley (Collegiate and NFL records speak to this) is emerging as one of the best in the business.


The first sentence was a shot at not only JJ but also DRogers. Tennessee has lost as many commits as it's gained. It's so fluctual I don't even pay attention now. If a staff wants a kid... they will go after him. Regardless of "how firm". It may just be extending an offer, but they'll fish the water. None of those guys were exceptional, again, except Montgomery.


Also, Tauren Poole was ranked #16 RB by rivals. Doesn't mean much.

 

[GLDunlap]

None of those guys I listed were 5* guys. All were 4* except for 1, who was a 3*.


Fact of the matter is this: 3 and 4* guys are dime-a-dozen in the Southeast and especially around Louisiana/Texas. LSU scouted them early, got them to commit and they didn't garner interest from any other school. Why would they? They aren't freaks (besides Sam Montgomery). They were average size/speed/etc for their position.


In the end... the "rubber meets the road". These kids still have to get coached up.... which they have. Brick Haley (Collegiate and NFL records speak to this) is emerging as one of the best in the business.


The first sentence was a shot at not only JJ but also DRogers. Tennessee has lost as many commits as it's gained. It's so fluctual I don't even pay attention now. If a staff wants a kid... they will go after him. Regardless of "how firm". It may just be extending an offer, but they'll fish the water. None of those guys were exceptional, again, except Montgomery.
****************************************************************************************

I disagree that other schools would not have wanted those players but it really doesn't matter. The RB position is broken into 3 categories so it's a bit watered down unlike other positions. Poole at #16 is high even at that though so I give you that one. LSU is loaded with talent, yes they have to be coached but let's not pretend their success can be attributed to "chief" taking average players that nobody else in the SEC wanted and coaching them up.

 

[DC Vol]

I disagree that other schools would not have wanted those players but it really doesn't matter. The RB position is broken into 3 categories so it's a bit watered down unlike other positions. Poole at #16 is high even at that though so I give you that one. LSU is loaded with talent, yes they have to be coached but let's not pretend their success can be attributed to "chief" taking average players that nobody else in the SEC wanted and coaching them up.

Besides All-Purpose and RB.. what else is there? DE is also split into 2 categories and, seeing as how 2 of those guys didn't crack the Top 10 in either... they weren't turning heads coming out of HS.



I actually said earlier that Chief had nothing to do with the scouting and/or the coaching of these guys. That's all Frank Wilson and Brick Haley... as I said in the comment you quoted.

Chief don't recruit. That was his problem at UT once Rodney Garner was gone. I think Chief does evaluate LBs. I know he coaches them but I'm pretty sure he doesn't actually recruit them.

 

[LSU-SIU]

......

Very few players that commit early to a program like LSU change their commitment. The fact is the players you mentioned were all 4-5 star players that could have went anywhere in the country. You said nobody else in the SEC wanted them and that's ridiculous. They are all top 5-15 type players in the country at their position but nobody else wanted them?

JJ is the only big time commit LSU has lost in years and it's obvious why he wanted to get away. Do you really consider us getting JJ as a good thing? Two average years with tons of drama and suspension after suspension isn't really all that good.

btw, what does the first sentence even mean?

LSU is working off of mostly 3-4 star guys, most of the 5 star guys have either underperformed or don't even see the field. The D only has 2 5-star guys Loston and the Freak, Loston starts but I would say Reid has basically out played him and it appears to me that he plays more than Loston. Morris Claiborne only had like two other major programs offer and no other SEC school offered that I know of.

I mean the top DL this year to me has been Bennie Logan, you know how many SEC offers he got... a big goose egg. He was a 3-star nobody wanted, which eventually help contribute to Chris Davenport a 5-star DL being put on the OL.

Nobody wanted Mathieu as he was trying to get offers which is why he went to all the camps. Rivals didn't give him a rating until LSU signed him, all the other schools were passing on him, this is a fact.

This is what you get as far as LSU's D as far as starters with stars.

Ken Adams DE 3-star
Sam Montgomery DE 4-star
Mike Brokers DT 4-star
Bennie Logan DT 3-star

Stefoin Francois LB converted from DB 4-star
Ryan Baker LB 4-star
Hatcher/Minter 4-star

Craig Loston 5-star
Brandon Taylor 4-star
Morris Clairborne 3-star
Tyrann Mathieu 4-star (was a NR until LSU signed him, no other major college offer)

The guys that come from Texas are usually the guys U of T does not offer.

I did an analysis of star quality at LSU a while back on these forums, the result was our 3-stars usually contributed more than the 5-stars.

Out of all these guys you probably only have Loston, Minter, and Montgomery that could go anywhere they wanted.

It only takes one or few things to destroy a program, but it can take years to turn it around, if you can at all.

Most of the LSU's 5-star guys are on O which they have underperformed mostly because of Crowton was the OC.
- Ware
- Randle
- Shepard
- Davenport (major 5-star bust) converted from DL to OL
- Landry (FR.)
- Collins (FR.)

Heck even Brad Wing was not offered by any other major program, he has only turned into the best punter in the nation. Stars are for discussion, players play.

EVALUATION is more important than stars and evaluating who needs major long-term development ie Mingo is a key. If stars is the key than USC would have won every NC for the last 10 years and whatever they didn't win then Georgia would have.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Alabama won an NC with a large group of sophomores and freshmen in Saban's 2nd season. I guess someone forgot to tell him they were too young to be good. I think Urban Meyer did the same thing in his 2nd season.

No they didn't.
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[MikeVol44]

Bingo, I just butchered the way I said it :hi:

And that's the reason I put the burden on Wilcox to find creative ways to use what he has to get pressure on the QB--and it doesn't require magic...my original point about wanting the Chief back is that he found creative ways to use the front 6 or 7 he had to pressure the QB...even when he had studs like Henderson and Haynesworth--he came up with the prowler to confuse the Oline and pressure the QB...

Wilcox hasn't done that--and has not even demonstrated that desire--you must use what you have to ATTACK and dictate to the Offense--we do have enough tallent to do this right now...Malik Jackson could play for anyone in the SEC right now--including Bama and LSU...Bohannon and Martin are good, and JSmith is a beast who could be utilized MUCH BETTER!

And I do know that attacking always puts the secondary at risk....but it also puts an extreme amount of pressure on the QB and offense--mistakes do result and result in bad throws and some turnovers...which is what other teams do to us!

An example being in the 3rd QTR when we--the only time all game--got pressure on Murray and he hit Vereen in the side/back with his pass--if Vereen turns around he has an INT--but he didn't and PI resulted....

Either way--Wilcox cannot continue his current philosophy and expect to win games in the SEC--even as we add more talent and bigger D-Lineman...

Just my opinion---and you know what that's worth!

GO VOLS! :salute:

 

[BlueTick Vol]

At this point in time I would never say he’s not going to succeed….I would however and have said all along that:

0 His past performance does nothing to indicate he is a good coach, on the contrary it suggests he’s mediocre at best

0 It can’t be quantified but it should be obvious to all but the most hardcore 'bandwagoners' he’s not an effective leader or recruiter

Given the tumultuous recent past at the university and Dooley’s name recognition I think he has 2 more years before he’s gone… at that time I think it will be safe to say our once proud program will have solidified itself as a perennial middle of pack program in the SEC and no longer have any national prominence….

Our new identity is yet to be established but I can see it being along the lines of fans finding pleasure attempting to pull an occasional upset…against the likes of South Carolina or Mississippi….or maybe we’ll get a wacky coach and derive entertainment from his antics…the first woman head coach would be a nice touch…maybe a family area inside Neyland is in order….you know an area where families can spread out blankets and have a picnic, play catch with the kids while the game is going on….how about a bring your dog to the game……no one knows what the future holds…but we need to be prepared to accept even embrace it….

For someone who has ridiculed so many for bad grammar, you sure do use alot of ellipsis. Improperly, might I add.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

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[Carl Pickens]

Uh....D-lineman don't blitz the last time I checked football 101...LBs, safeties, and/or CBs do....

We've got Jackson, Martin, Bohannon, Hood, J Smith, and Corey Miller--Jackson was all over the place in the UGA game--just not on passing downs--Wilcox just doesn't create mismatches against the Oline with what he has--it doesn't take magic to do that--any DC with half a brain could line up Jackson and Smith on weakside tackle and guard and blitz Maggitt through the gap there to get pressure--or even be creative and use our Dlineman's assets--quickness, strength, and speed--in the "prowler" on passing situations to create some confusion on the Oline...And if we're not going to at least try to sack the QB--then I'd rather rush 2 or 3 and drop 8 into a zone...

This post was proudly brought to you by MikeVol44.....distinguished defensive coordinator and author

 

[rcketop]

Exactly. People that say "alot a teams are young" can't name a team that has 70% underclassman and such few seniors starting....and then be beating teams they're not expected to beat.

The main problem I see with this team that is different from the Ala. and Flor. teams that went through coaching changes and then won Natl. Championships with "young" teams is TALENT....pure and simple. The main reason they have talent on their teams are....They are ALABAMA and FLORIDA. They get the best talent in the nation. Tennessee gets sloppy seconds and thirds. There is no other way to put it.
Let me ask you this, if you were a five star recruit and one of the top in the nation and you were recruited by Alabama and Tennessee, which would you want to play for. One that has 13 natl chps and Nick Saban. Or one that has 1 natl chps in decades and Derek Dooley.
We are not a powerhouse anymore and therefore we wont get the top notch talent. Sure we get 4 star recruits but the recruits that Ala. gets are so far above and beyond anything we get that its almost funny. First off i like CDD but if you are going to get the BEST talent to come to UT then you need the best coaches....period. Alabama and Florida both did that and LSU. That is why I believe that UT will just have to try and develop these kids the best they can until we can compete and start getting recognition for being an ELITE SEC team. Then and only then will we get a shot at these top notch players.