Former Player's Opinion on Current Program

#201
#201
BasketvolsFan said:
Well, you are wrong. Wilcox is doing a very good job with the talent available. Two long passes in an entire game may be better than allowing a team to run the ball down your throat the entire game. Wilcox will be excellent when he has the talent and depth to do what he really wants to do defensively.
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I won't argue with stupidity....
 
#204
#204
volfan4evr said:
Standford when Harbaugh got there.
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actually i was referring to the lack of jr's and sr's.....i'm not aware of any team that is going through what has happened at UT.....its like being in the second year of starting a team from scratch.....no wonder a bigger name coach would want to avoid it....it may not turn out but i think dooley's recruiting has been amazing under the circumstances.......if you compare to last year, this team has progressed in several areas......I will support dooley, but expect to see even more improvement next year with a real junior class.....
 
#205
#205
GAVol said:
It amazes me how people that should know better can ignore what has happened the past 3 years and the obvious impact it's had on the product on the field.
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Nah, come on bud. Surely having almost no contribution from your Jr and Sr classes plus losing your unquestioned 3 best players is no excuse?

I think the criticism is a tad warranted for the OL and run game. UT should have been better all year. Other than that... just a bunch of emotional handwringing... some by people who ought to be more grown up.
 
#206
#206
WeldVol said:
actually i was referring to the lack of jr's and sr's.....i'm not aware of any team that is going through what has happened at UT.....its like being in the second year of starting a team from scratch.....no wonder a bigger name coach would want to avoid it....it may not turn out but i think dooley's recruiting has been amazing under the circumstances.......if you compare to last year, this team has progressed in several areas......I will support dooley, but expect to see even more improvement next year with a real junior class.....
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Good post.

Dooley may not be the guy. At a minimum, I hope he's a good set up guy. But to turn a blind eye to the depth of the problems he inherited is just DUMB.
 
#207
#207
Haha. We shouldn’t use youth as a crutch, but using injuries/departures as one seems understandable. Guys it’s all relative. Each person’s perception of where we are as a program will be different. It all comes down to staying healthy though. Even after losing our all-american DB and best LB, we looked good early on this year. We beat a solid 4-1 Cincy team by over 20 with Hunter, loss to Florida in the Swamp by 10 in a game where we were shell-shocked from losing Justin, and lost to GA by 8 holding them to their lowest points of the season (20) after losing Poole and Bray. If we’re a healthy team, then this thread is never created. We aren’t giving enough attention to the fact of how banged up we are. Think if in 98 the following occurred: before the season, DB Dwanye Goodrich left the program and the team’s best LB, Al Wilson broke his ankle. We started the season without them. Then against Florida on the 4th play of the game, Peerless Price goes down with a torn ACL. The following SEC match against Georgia, RB Travis Stephens goes down with a hamstring in the first quarter, and in the 4th starting QB Tee Martin breaks his thumb and is out for 4-6 weeks. Do you guys really think that team would have been able to overcome those hurdles? No you can’t blame everything on injury/departures, but we can blame a lot of it on it. This team that is “mediocre” that we are all saying is terrible is without it’s best DB, LB, WR, QB and possibly RB. Any team in the nation, Bama, LSU, Oklahoma, would be hard pressed to win games when that happens. Let’s just have some perspective of where our team is really at compared to the blows we’ve been dealt.
 
#208
#208
Carl Pickens said:
On paper? Damn....I guess the Vols are the much more talented team....and deep as the ocean too.....it's just a shame the game is played on the field and not on paper
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Wow the game is played on the field....any more revelations for us? Brilliant.
 
#209
#209
Vercingetorix said:
What? Their freshman and sophomores are playing because they've beaten out other players on a mature team with plenty of juniors of seniors on it; it's a matter of cream rising to the top. Our freshman and sophomores are playing without having beaten out anybody. We're playing young guys by default. There's no way to compare the talent differential when we have so few contributing upperclassmen anywhere.
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I read pages and pages of back and forth crap looking to see if anyone would touch this point. Thanks.

I would also add that because we don't have real SEC talent in the upperclassman we don't practice against quality SEC players either. I may be wrong, but I would think that this would affect the growth of our players.
 
#210
#210
I'm finding "youth" hard to excuse when every single OL were starters at some point last year and we've quite obviously regressed, significantly, in the run game. When you play Montana and can't even get 4ypc but Cal Poly, Sacramento State and Eastern Washington can get well north of there... there is a problem.

There is youth and there are new starters all over the defense. 2 True Freshmen at OLB are a problem I'll give Wilcox a pass on. I don't think they're doing a great or even good job... but an adequate job considering the problems.


Youth is a problem, yes, but that doesn't excuse the pattern of time management, focus, intensity and other discipline issues that we're starting to see take root in the big games.


Just my take on things. Dooley should absolutely get a pass this year, but things aren't progressing (especially in regards to the running game) as should be expected.



DISCLAIMER: For you mongoloids that love to jump to a conclusion... I'm not on the "fire Dooley" bandwagon. I like the guy and hope he does well. I don't want to have to go through another staff change. He should get until at least this point in the 2013 season. If, by that point, he hasn't gotten a significant win, he should be completely evaluated. You are who you beat.


I did some stat finding:

LSU 2000. Saban's first year. LSU went a combined 7-15 in the previous 2 years. They were terrible. Saban played 7 FR in 11 games. 9 SO in 11 games. 7 JR in 11 games. 3 SR in 11 games. Starting TB was a FR. Starting QB was a JR. SS was SO. FS was JR. CBs looked to be JR and SO.

Can't get stats for OL but total roster. 2000 LSU had 3 SRs on OL, 2 JRs, 4 SO and 8 FR. 9 DTs on roster... 4 FR, 3 SO and 2 JRs.



You don't think Saban in year 1 at LSU had youth? You don't think he had a mess after Gerry DiNardo to clean up? That roster was devoid of JRs and SRs. Though, to be fair, the SEC wasn't the gauntlet in 2000 that it is in 2011. Though, LSU and Tennessee were nowhere near each other in talent and LSU beat us then.
 
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#212
#212
VolsRule said:
someone at work told me today that lsu starts 7 sophomores on D! is that true? :eek:hmy:
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I saw 5 SO and FR on their depth chart but that might not be accurate.


I counted 21 SO and FR that have played in all 6 LSU games. All LSU sacks were generated by FR or SO. 3 of the top 5 tacklers are SO. Half of LSU's INTs are from SO. Spencer Ware is a SO.


Okay, I counted based on the starter list from the Florida:
Eric Reid (FS), Tyrion Matthieu (CB), Kevin Minter (MLB), Michael Brockers (DT), Bennie Logan (DT) and Sam Montgomery (DE) are all SO. That makes 6. And for all you "They're just more talented rabble rabble" among you they were all 4* (ratings aren't everything, I'm aware) except Bennie Logan... who was a 3*.
 
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#213
#213
DC Vol said:
I saw 5 SO and FR on their depth chart but that might not be accurate.


I counted 21 SO and FR that have played in all 6 LSU games. All LSU sacks were generated by FR or SO. 3 of the top 5 tacklers are SO. Half of LSU's INTs are from SO. Spencer Ware is a SO.


Okay, I counted based on the starter list from the Florida:
Eric Reid (FS), Tyrion Matthieu (CB), Kevin Minter (MLB), Michael Brockers (DT), Bennie Logan (DT) and Sam Montgomery (DE) are all SO. That makes 6.
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Here's all that needs to be said to illustrate the talent discrepancy between LSU and UT. LSU's second string fullback would be a starter on the UT d-line. He's a backup fullback at LSU because he can't crack the d-line rotation for the Tigers.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#215
#215
DC Vol said:
I saw 5 SO and FR on their depth chart but that might not be accurate.


I counted 21 SO and FR that have played in all 6 LSU games. All LSU sacks were generated by FR or SO. 3 of the top 5 tacklers are SO. Half of LSU's INTs are from SO. Spencer Ware is a SO.


Okay, I counted based on the starter list from the Florida:
Eric Reid (FS), Tyrion Matthieu (CB), Kevin Minter (MLB), Michael Brockers (DT), Bennie Logan (DT) and Sam Montgomery (DE) are all SO. That makes 6. And for all you "They're just more talented rabble rabble" among you they were all 4* (ratings aren't everything, I'm aware) except Bennie Logan... who was a 3*.
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2/3 of the people you mentioned have been there for three years.
 
#217
#217
Regulator said:
Here's all that needs to be said to illustrate the talent discrepancy between LSU and UT. LSU's second string fullback would be a starter on the UT d-line. He's a backup fullback at LSU because he can't crack the d-line rotation for the Tigers.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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So?

Out of those 6... I'll list who held an offer from Bama:

Sam Montgomery.


I don't know that any of those players crack Bama's starting roster... assuming Bama even recruited them. Which they didn't.


In fact I'll list what SEC schools recruited which player:

Bennie Logan: crickets
Kevin Minter: Kentucky, USCe
Tyrann Mathieu: crickets
Sam Montgomery: pretty much everyone
Michael Brockers: crickets
Eric Reid: Tennessee


Maybe you folks need to wake up and realize that perhaps LSU is just squeezing the talent out of these guys. No SEC schools saw them coming. 3/4 of LSU's DL are guys nobody in the SEC wanted. I know giving any credit to Chief is frowned upon... but mayhaps he has an idea what he's doing.


Sleep on that.
 
#218
#218
Well Im a former player, I talked to a couple of guys on here late sat. night before our game sunday. I tried to explain to people that Harry is a Great O-line coach. Its alot harder to teach true sophs and 1 junior blocking schemes. They have to work on their Technique more than anything, and GET IN SHAPE. More and more I watch this years O-Line, they are Slow and Gas real quick. Yes they are big, but being big doesnt always mean that your a good O-Lineman.

When I was on the hill, we ran, and ran, and ran. We was IN SHAPE. Im not saying that they arent, but when you cant move a man that you have 30 - 40 lbs on, consistenly then something has to change. They dont run Traps or misdirection plays at all. They run off tackle and something that looks like a sweep. They guards are so slow, you could time them with a sun dial. They need to make their guards lose about 15lbs and get leaner. Being strong is good, but when you cant get to the guy to use that strength, then its useless. Also, Ideally you want your guards to get low, to gain leverage and then use legs to drive. Its not rocket science, its just a matter of them listening to what Harry is telling them. You have one of the Best O-Line Coaches in the nation. They just have to learn Technique and how to apply it in a game.

I told some guys on here the same thing and they just wanted to know who I was, blah, blah, blah, instead of listening to what I had to say. Seems like guys just want results rite now. Its not gonna happen, they have to get experience. If you look around the SEC or other conferences, finding a "GREAT" true soph lineman is rare, much less finding 4 of them on the same team.

Also, there are holes. There is running lanes. Alot of times the RB's hesitate, then the hole closes. Or they will try and bounch outside, and you cant run against SEC teams, east to west, to much speed. You have to hit the hole at full speed. You hit it at full speed and you can break arm tackles. Especially if a lineman has ahold of the defender.

Once again, "most" of yall dont wanna hear this, but its gonna take time. And whoever coaches the RB's, need to teach them to HIT THE HOLE. Unless you have a back with world class speed, then bounce it outside. But, dont hesitate, hit the damn hole, and fans on here wont have to question Harry's coaching abilities.

Thats all I got for today. Gotta wake up early and get some Damn Treatment. Stay faithful VOL FANS.
 
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#219
#219
VKAman said:
2/3 of the people you mentioned have been there for three years.
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If that's the case than Eric Gordon and Marlon Walls can't be classified as Sophomores either.


Point still remains that SEC schools weren't exactly falling over themselves to recruit these guys... or even offer them.
 
#220
#220
country orange said:
Well Im a former player, I talked to a couple of guys on here late sat. night before our game sunday. I tried to explain to people that Harry is a Great O-line coach. Its alot harder to teach true sophs and 1 junior blocking schemes. They have to work on their Technique more than anything, and GET IN SHAPE. More and more I watch this years O-Line, they are Slow and Gas real quick. Yes they are big, but being big doesnt always mean that your a good O-Lineman.

When I was on the hill, we ran, and ran, and ran. We was IN SHAPE. Im not saying that they arent, but when you cant move a man that you have 30 - 40 lbs on, consistenly then something has to change. They dont run Traps or misdirection plays at all. They run off tackle and something that looks like a sweep. They guards are so slow, you could time them with a sun dial. They need to make their guards lose about 15lbs and get leaner. Being strong is good, but when you cant get to the guy to use that strength, then its useless. Also, Ideally you want your guards to get low, to gain leverage and then use legs to drive. Its not rocket science, its just a matter of them listening to what Harry is telling them. You have one of the Best O-Line Coaches in the nation. They just have to learn Technique and how to apply it in a game.

I told some guys on here the same thing and they just wanted to know who I was, blah, blah, blah, instead of listening to what I had to say. Seems like guys just want results rite now. Its not gonna happen, they have to get experience. If you look around the SEC or other conferences, finding a "GREAT" true soph lineman is rare, much less finding 4 of them on the same team.

Also, there are holes. There is running lanes. Alot of times the RB's hesitate, then the hole closes. Or they will try and bounch outside, and you cant run against SEC teams, east to west, to much speed. You have to hit the hole at full speed. You hit it at full speed and you can break arm tackles. Especially if a lineman has ahold of the defender.

Once again, "most" of yall dont wanna hear this, but its gonna take time. And whoever coaches the RB's, need to teach them to HIT THE HOLE. Unless you have a back with world class speed, then bounce it outside. But, dont hesitate, hit the damn hole, and fans on here wont have to question Harry's coaching abilities.

Thats all I got for today. Gotta wake up early and get some Damn Treatment. Stay faithful VOL FANS.
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Good post. I read the bio of the oline coach, its very impressive.
Oline coach for the bears in the NFL.
I'm not sure what the issue with the oline is, other then the obvious, they aren't physical enough to move people.
They are a very big line, not people able to move people is surprising.
 
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#222
#222
DC Vol said:
So?

Out of those 6... I'll list who held an offer from Bama:

Sam Montgomery.


I don't know that any of those players crack Bama's starting roster... assuming Bama even recruited them. Which they didn't.


In fact I'll list what SEC schools recruited which player:

Bennie Logan: crickets
Kevin Minter: Kentucky, USCe
Tyrann Mathieu: crickets
Sam Montgomery: pretty much everyone
Michael Brockers: crickets
Eric Reid: Tennessee


Maybe you folks need to wake up and realize that perhaps LSU is just squeezing the talent out of these guys. No SEC schools saw them coming. 3/4 of LSU's DL are guys nobody in the SEC wanted. I know giving any credit to Chief is frowned upon... but mayhaps he has an idea what he's doing.


Sleep on that.
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So? What?

All you are pointing out here is that recruiting stars don't always tell the whole story. Duh.

I guarantee you every team in the SEC, and probably most in the country short of maybe Alabama and Florida, would trade their d-line for LSU's. If we're talking the entire defense, even Florida would trade. Today.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#223
#223
country orange said:
Well Im a former player, I talked to a couple of guys on here late sat. night before our game sunday. I tried to explain to people that Harry is a Great O-line coach. Its alot harder to teach true sophs and 1 junior blocking schemes. They have to work on their Technique more than anything, and GET IN SHAPE. More and more I watch this years O-Line, they are Slow and Gas real quick. Yes they are big, but being big doesnt always mean that your a good O-Lineman.

When I was on the hill, we ran, and ran, and ran. We was IN SHAPE. Im not saying that they arent, but when you cant move a man that you have 30 - 40 lbs on, consistenly then something has to change. They dont run Traps or misdirection plays at all. They run off tackle and something that looks like a sweep. They guards are so slow, you could time them with a sun dial. They need to make their guards lose about 15lbs and get leaner. Being strong is good, but when you cant get to the guy to use that strength, then its useless. Also, Ideally you want your guards to get low, to gain leverage and then use legs to drive. Its not rocket science, its just a matter of them listening to what Harry is telling them. You have one of the Best O-Line Coaches in the nation. They just have to learn Technique and how to apply it in a game.

I told some guys on here the same thing and they just wanted to know who I was, blah, blah, blah, instead of listening to what I had to say. Seems like guys just want results rite now. Its not gonna happen, they have to get experience. If you look around the SEC or other conferences, finding a "GREAT" true soph lineman is rare, much less finding 4 of them on the same team.

Also, there are holes. There is running lanes. Alot of times the RB's hesitate, then the hole closes. Or they will try and bounch outside, and you cant run against SEC teams, east to west, to much speed. You have to hit the hole at full speed. You hit it at full speed and you can break arm tackles. Especially if a lineman has ahold of the defender.

Once again, "most" of yall dont wanna hear this, but its gonna take time. And whoever coaches the RB's, need to teach them to HIT THE HOLE. Unless you have a back with world class speed, then bounce it outside. But, dont hesitate, hit the damn hole, and fans on here wont have to question Harry's coaching abilities.

Thats all I got for today. Gotta wake up early and get some Damn Treatment. Stay faithful VOL FANS.
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Hit the dang hole..........that is what we were always told! Noticed no real counter...pull plays ect...........good post.:good!:
 
#224
#224
Mason72 said:
country orange... good post..
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Thanks, but you guys just need to give Harry a break. I know him personally and he has taught some GREAT O-Lineman in the League. He could have went to pretty much any NFL team, but instead he went to TN. Give him time and he will have one of the best O-lines in the country. The boys just need to listen to what he says. And sometimes thats hard to do, with girls running around, Frat Parties, etc. I know, been there, done that. BUT, at the end of the day, you have to take playing in the SEC serious. They need to soak up everything that he says, get in the film room and find out what your doing wrong. They will improve, I promise. They cant get any worse. Maybe if he yanks them out and sits them on the pine for awhile that will put some worry in them. But when you dont have alot of depth, thats a problem too.

Oh and people are on the Stone kid (center) he will work through that. Going from left hand to right is hard. Wells had some issues with snapping in college too and occasionally makes mistakes now. So, be a little easy on the big guys up front.

On a positve note, they got pass blocking down PAT. Bray is hardly ever touched, now they just need to turn on that switch when a running play is called. The Mean, "What did you say about my mama" switch.
 
#225
#225
country orange said:
On a positve note, they got pass blocking down PAT. Bray is hardly ever touched, now they just need to turn on that switch when a running play is called. The Mean, "What did you say about my mama" switch.
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UT ranks #54 in the NCAA with 1.8 sacks conceded per game.That number will go way up by this time in November with Simms (who normally takes longer to go through his progressions) in at QB.


Bray has just been doing a good job getting the ball out quick. That doesn't mean he hasn't been under pressure.
 
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